Ot; Heavy

[briansd1]

[quote=bearishgurl]
but also know that food choices are largely cultural and so are ingrained in an adult (who grew up passing large bread baskets and other “double-recipe” starchy and fried dishes around the table and engaging in second/third helpings, for example).
[/quote]

Yes, it’s hard to get away from culture.

I knew one guy who believed that eating lots of junk and drinking was part of the “good life”. In his opinion, there was no point living otherwise.

After some health problems the doctors warned him… but he didn’t change, and after a kidney failure, he’s no longer with us.

[quote=bearishgurl]
I have always prepared meals to equal one serving each for the exact amount of people I am cooking for. Even food I freeze is divided up into individual meal containers. I do not usually have leftovers and endeavor not to waste any food.
[/quote]

We weren’t poor but that’s how I grew up. There was only enough for each person. And even when there were guests, each person had his own portion. No leftover.

There was never any leftover (and was no freezing back then).

If we were still hungry at the end of the meal, we could have some bread with cheese from the tray — mostly European cheeses because we didn’t eat junk cheeses like cheddar and American (many cheeses are just blocks of salted and colored grease).

[quote=bearishgurl]
brian, you are correct in that using condiments such as butter, sour cream, mayo, excessive salad dressing, gravy, etc ALL have a great effect on how many calories you are taking in.
[/quote]

Too much condiment and sauce masks the true taste and freshness of the main ingredients.

[quote=bearishgurl]

If I were living “by myself” and did not have pets I would be willing to “take the challenge” of living on <=$100 mo of groceries (incl hshld and personal items). Yes, I think this is still possible . . . even at today's prices :-][/quote] My aunt lives on about $150 per month, not because she's on a budget but because she cooks everything from scratch by herself. She owns her own house, gardens and cooks and is self sufficient at 90. I know because I help drive her grocery shopping since she has no children of her own. $150 includes luxury items such as cherries and kiwis. The problem with eating on a budget is that you have to shell out the money in advance and to buy all the ingredients so you have them at the ready, in your freezer or your pantry, to cook good good meals. * I'm not disputing that it's hard to eat well. It's especially hard for people who are busy working and predisposed to easily gain weight. We expect poor folks go are born in the ghettos to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. So I don't think that it's too much to expect people who have money to eat well and stay healthy, regardless of their genetic predispositions. Not everybody gets to indulge rich food just like not everyone gets to live in McMansion.

[briansd1]

[quote=bearishgurl]
but also know that food choices are largely cultural and so are ingrained in an adult (who grew up passing large bread baskets and other “double-recipe” starchy and fried dishes around the table and engaging in second/third helpings, for example).
[/quote]

Yes, it’s hard to get away from culture.

I knew one guy who believed that eating lots of junk and drinking was part of the “good life”. In his opinion, there was no point living otherwise.

After some health problems the doctors warned him… but he didn’t change, and after a kidney failure, he’s no longer with us.

[quote=bearishgurl]
I have always prepared meals to equal one serving each for the exact amount of people I am cooking for. Even food I freeze is divided up into individual meal containers. I do not usually have leftovers and endeavor not to waste any food.
[/quote]

We weren’t poor but that’s how I grew up. There was only enough for each person. And even when there were guests, each person had his own portion. No leftover.

There was never any leftover (and was no freezing back then).

If we were still hungry at the end of the meal, we could have some bread with cheese from the tray — mostly European cheeses because we didn’t eat junk cheeses like cheddar and American (many cheeses are just blocks of salted and colored grease).

[quote=bearishgurl]
brian, you are correct in that using condiments such as butter, sour cream, mayo, excessive salad dressing, gravy, etc ALL have a great effect on how many calories you are taking in.
[/quote]

Too much condiment and sauce masks the true taste and freshness of the main ingredients.

[quote=bearishgurl]

If I were living “by myself” and did not have pets I would be willing to “take the challenge” of living on <=$100 mo of groceries (incl hshld and personal items). Yes, I think this is still possible . . . even at today's prices :-][/quote] My aunt lives on about $150 per month, not because she's on a budget but because she cooks everything from scratch by herself. She owns her own house, gardens and cooks and is self sufficient at 90. I know because I help drive her grocery shopping since she has no children of her own. $150 includes luxury items such as cherries and kiwis. The problem with eating on a budget is that you have to shell out the money in advance and to buy all the ingredients so you have them at the ready, in your freezer or your pantry, to cook good good meals. * I'm not disputing that it's hard to eat well. It's especially hard for people who are busy working and predisposed to easily gain weight. We expect poor folks go are born in the ghettos to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. So I don't think that it's too much to expect people who have money to eat well and stay healthy, regardless of their genetic predispositions. Not everybody gets to indulge rich food just like not everyone gets to live in McMansion.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.

[outtamojo]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.[/quote]

I agree.In the end, you have to do what you have to do – anything else is just making excuses. That said, it’s been hell trying to lose the extra 10-15 pounds or so I have on : )

[outtamojo]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.[/quote]

I agree.In the end, you have to do what you have to do – anything else is just making excuses. That said, it’s been hell trying to lose the extra 10-15 pounds or so I have on : )

[outtamojo]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.[/quote]

I agree.In the end, you have to do what you have to do – anything else is just making excuses. That said, it’s been hell trying to lose the extra 10-15 pounds or so I have on : )

[briansd1]

Interesting program I heard of radio this morning.

Will America See a Food Revolution? (12:07PM)

One-third of America’s tomato crop is infused with pesticides, picked green and turned red artificially. The US State Department admits some is produced by slave labor. Factory-raised chickens grow too fast and get too big; they taste like rubber and threaten the future of traditional breeds. Evidence against the abuses of modern agriculture is creating a new movement of people who don’t want to eat industrialized food any more. But better tasting, more nutritional food is expensive, and the movement may be limited to the favored few.

There’s a growing backlash against industrialized food production, including tomatoes and chickens that don’t taste right and aren’t genuinely nutritious. But not everybody can afford to buy the real things. Is the Good Food movement creating a class divide?

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110901blah_chicken_bland_t

[briansd1]

Interesting program I heard of radio this morning.

Will America See a Food Revolution? (12:07PM)

One-third of America’s tomato crop is infused with pesticides, picked green and turned red artificially. The US State Department admits some is produced by slave labor. Factory-raised chickens grow too fast and get too big; they taste like rubber and threaten the future of traditional breeds. Evidence against the abuses of modern agriculture is creating a new movement of people who don’t want to eat industrialized food any more. But better tasting, more nutritional food is expensive, and the movement may be limited to the favored few.

There’s a growing backlash against industrialized food production, including tomatoes and chickens that don’t taste right and aren’t genuinely nutritious. But not everybody can afford to buy the real things. Is the Good Food movement creating a class divide?

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110901blah_chicken_bland_t

[briansd1]

Interesting program I heard of radio this morning.

Will America See a Food Revolution? (12:07PM)

One-third of America’s tomato crop is infused with pesticides, picked green and turned red artificially. The US State Department admits some is produced by slave labor. Factory-raised chickens grow too fast and get too big; they taste like rubber and threaten the future of traditional breeds. Evidence against the abuses of modern agriculture is creating a new movement of people who don’t want to eat industrialized food any more. But better tasting, more nutritional food is expensive, and the movement may be limited to the favored few.

There’s a growing backlash against industrialized food production, including tomatoes and chickens that don’t taste right and aren’t genuinely nutritious. But not everybody can afford to buy the real things. Is the Good Food movement creating a class divide?

http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/tp/tp110901blah_chicken_bland_t

[CardiffBaseball]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=CardiffBaseball]

One misconception from another post ocrenter, fatty foods will not leave you hungry later on, they are quite satiating.[/quote]

fatty food routinely lead to overeating in the research environment.

you mentioned the Paleo diet previously. that is not a high fat diet. it focus on lean meats, reduce carb intake and change the carbs to whole grain.[/quote]

Absolutely 100% not true.

If you have any interest watch this Nightline clips with Art Devany and Robb Wolf featured.

The cut in fat with Paleo comes from not eating Dairy. Paleo means no grains, no legumes, no sugar, no dairy. Caveman, if you can kill it, you can eat it. If you can pick it off a tree go for it. Most of it is centered around the claims that most gut issues, such as IBS etc. come from an intolerance of grains and dairy.

One of the more famous Paleo guys is right there in San Diego, Mark’s Sisson of “Primal Living” and Mark’s Daily Apple.

Home

[CardiffBaseball]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=CardiffBaseball]

One misconception from another post ocrenter, fatty foods will not leave you hungry later on, they are quite satiating.[/quote]

fatty food routinely lead to overeating in the research environment.

you mentioned the Paleo diet previously. that is not a high fat diet. it focus on lean meats, reduce carb intake and change the carbs to whole grain.[/quote]

Absolutely 100% not true.

If you have any interest watch this Nightline clips with Art Devany and Robb Wolf featured.

The cut in fat with Paleo comes from not eating Dairy. Paleo means no grains, no legumes, no sugar, no dairy. Caveman, if you can kill it, you can eat it. If you can pick it off a tree go for it. Most of it is centered around the claims that most gut issues, such as IBS etc. come from an intolerance of grains and dairy.

One of the more famous Paleo guys is right there in San Diego, Mark’s Sisson of “Primal Living” and Mark’s Daily Apple.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

[CardiffBaseball]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=CardiffBaseball]

One misconception from another post ocrenter, fatty foods will not leave you hungry later on, they are quite satiating.[/quote]

fatty food routinely lead to overeating in the research environment.

you mentioned the Paleo diet previously. that is not a high fat diet. it focus on lean meats, reduce carb intake and change the carbs to whole grain.[/quote]

Absolutely 100% not true.

If you have any interest watch this Nightline clips with Art Devany and Robb Wolf featured.

The cut in fat with Paleo comes from not eating Dairy. Paleo means no grains, no legumes, no sugar, no dairy. Caveman, if you can kill it, you can eat it. If you can pick it off a tree go for it. Most of it is centered around the claims that most gut issues, such as IBS etc. come from an intolerance of grains and dairy.

One of the more famous Paleo guys is right there in San Diego, Mark’s Sisson of “Primal Living” and Mark’s Daily Apple.

Home

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Why are some babies born 12 pounds when others are born 7 pounds, and the mother of the 12-pounder gained less weight and ate fewer calories than the mother of the 7-pounder?

There is far more that we DON’T know than what we do know. Until you’ve lived with someone who suffers from these weight problems (and know for a fact that they have almost identical diets to siblings who are “skinny” or “muscular”), you cannot understand what some of us are talking about. You have to see it first-hand to grasp what’s going on with some overweight people.[/quote]

CA renter, if one child is fat, why not teach that child to eat less and substitute foods that have more volume and less calories?

For example while the other kids have croissants and butter, the fat child should have plain oat meal with water. Sounds extreme, but wouldn’t that be better than a lifetime of obesity?

If you had a child who had trouble keeping up in school, would you not give that child some remedial education?

Why do different people have to eat identical diets, as you put it? It’s obvious that different students have to study different amounts to achieve the same results.

I have a friend who’s trying to lose weight. Everytime I talk to him it’s all exercise and healthy eating… When I visit, I see frozen lasagna in the fridge. People will sneak around and eat without telling anyone.[/quote]

Sorry brian, but you clearly do not understand anything about child rearing and psychology. Do you honestly think that putting the heavy kid on a “diet” while they watch their siblings eat whatever they want will somehow go over well? Do you not understand that they will feel punished for things they have no control over, and they will either end up gorging when they finally make it out of the house, or they might end up with eating disorders which are every bit as dangerous as obesity.

Here’s why I feel so strongly about the subject… My sister was born 11 pounds 2 oz, and I was born 6 pounds 8 oz (same parents, mother gained about the same amount of weight during pregnancies). My sister NEVER saw a single day in her life as “normal weight” person. My mother was a narcissist, every bit as vain as you, and exercised regularly all her life. The fact that she had an overweight daughter was truly disturbing and embarassing to her, so she had my sister on various diets since the day she was born.

Because of my “lucky” genes, I could eat whatever I wanted, and had trouble gaining weight as a kid. Like many out there, I thought I was somehow “deserving” of my body type, almost as if I had earned it somehow. My friends and I used to make fun of my sister for being fat, even though she was a sweet and very funny kid. She managed to do well for herself socially because of her humorous and vivacious personality until her teen years when looks started to take on a more important role. I watched as she started taking massive amounts of diet pills, and experimented with starvation diets, etc. She could literally eat half of what I did, and still gain weight while I would stay the same or lose weight.

Over the years, she became more and more depressed, and I’m fully convinced that it was largely because of her weight issues. She became an alcoholic, and eventually committed suicide. I have many regrets in life, but my biggest regret is how I treated my sister when we were young.

I now have three kids, one of whom has this body type — she’s been in the 95th+ percentile for weight since the day she was born — she did not “become” fat. I do not want to watch my daughter go through the hell that my sister went through, and I will not stand silently by when I hear ignorant people try to blame innocent people for being “fat.”

What’s more, I know a number of people who were known for being slim when we were young. What most people don’t know was that they had eating disorders. All of them are now betwen 35 and 43 years old. One has already had a hip replacement and fractured spine because her bones are so brittle. Another was just diagnosed with osteoporosis. Another has lost some of her teeth, and is completely unable to keep food down because her stomach and esophagus are so accustomed to throwing everything up — needless to say, her esophagus is totally eaten up. Many of them don’t have periods, and have wild mood swings because their hormones are totally off.

Now, you might say that these people are “healthy” when you look at them, but they are far less healthy than overweight (not obese) people who might not look as good, but who have far healthier diets and healthier lifestyles.

FWIW, we know at least 15 people who have had cancer or heart attacks before the age of 50. Only ONE of them was overweight or obese. Quite a few of them were health and fitness fantatics who would only eat organic foods, would ride their bikes hundreds of miles per week, etc. I think so much of your angst about heavy people lies in the fact that you want to control everything in your life, and you want to convince yourself that you have control over your health. You don’t. More than anything else, your genes and pure luck control your health.

I wish you the very best, and hope that you do make it to 120, but you should never get cocky about your health. Life has a way of knocking us down when we get too haughty.

[Author]

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