OT – GOP is being carried to the extreme

[felix]

[quote=sdgrrl][quote=felix][quote=dbapig][quote=felix]Both parties have radical elements. Both parties have those who have those who buy into extreme ideas and conspiratorial theories.

However, there is a difference between the parties with regard to extremism. The Republicans don’t put those types in positions of power. [/quote]

Who were Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove?

Ever heard of Rumsfeld and ASPARTAME? Google those 2 terms together.[/quote]

You may not be happy with the previous administration. I understand that. I wasn’t happy with much that occurred also. Still, very few folks would consider any of the above radicals, in the same way those close to and even working in the Obama administration are considered radical. And this isn’t just a left/right judgment. It is a judgment based upon the traditional values of this country.

If you consider those you named above as radicals then you also must consider most of founding fathers radicals as well as many of those who have lead and built this country radicals. Clearly, the views of those who founded this country and of those who wrote our constitution are more in line with the Bushies than the changes being done by administrative or judicial fiat of the current left.

In fact, imo, JFK views were more in line with the Bushies and today’s Republications than today’s current Dems.[/quote]

What is a radical to you Felix?

JFK was probably seen as a radical for his view and support of Civil Rights.

Martin L. King was seen as a radical.

Roosevelt was a radical for his social programs.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Lucretia Mott were radicals for fighting the “tradition” of women having no voice in government.

Lincoln was a radical for supporting the end of slavery.

Each of these people were radical in reshaping America from a different light than what existed in 1776. Is that a bad thing?

I guess I am a liberal because of what I see as radical righties.

People that want prayer in school.

Those who viciously hate homosexuals.

People that want no birth control at all or sex education.

Those that want creationsim to replace evolution.

Left has “radicals” but please don’t tell me the right has none when they have Michelle Bachmann, had Rick Santorum and many others.

No disrespect to you Felix, but a radical can be seen in many different ways depending on who is asked.[/quote]

I see your point. Radicalism may very well depend on who is asked. However, with reference to the changes liberals seem to want for this country, imo, there is no question whose ideas are more in step with the founding ideals of this country.

The civil rights movement was supported by many Republicans in the conservative bible belt. In fact, I believe it was many southern Dems that didn’t support JFK on this including Al Gore’s Dad.

Imo the current Republican ideas of today are closer to the ideas of JFK than are the ideas of current Dems.

MLK wanted folks judged not by the color of their skin but the content of their character. I fully support this view and thus want the end to affirmative action. His views were moral and religious and found much support again from conservative church goers.

FDR was indeed radical. He changed this country with his vast social programs. While some programs like the TVA appear to have been helpful, others, like, the Ponzi scheme, social security, have done damage, or worse, become an albatross that no politician can touch.

The point I’m making is that some folks are trying to change the country to what they believe is better. Other folks are just trying to live within a country that they believed to have a constitution and bill of rights allowing them, historically, to pray in schools, outlaw homosexuality and even teach what they believed in schools.

I may have differing opinions on all three of the above but the folks who want to continue living in a country that has existed for over two hundreds with these as basic beliefs are not advocating radical change. They are advocating the status quo.

These folks have and will continue to live with changes that occur. They will continue to do so without violence or rioting. They just ask, I ask fairly imo, that changes happen do so within the appropriate process. They don’t want a government of either judicial or administrative fiat. They are not advocates of the “Rules for Radicals” as are many in the current administration.

[felix]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Felix: I came across this little gem from Joe Klein over at Time: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/yes-its-racism-but-its-complicated/

In essence, Klein argues that, by and large, the protesters are indeed racist, but not solely based on Obama’s color. Rather, they (and the “they” in this case are high school educated Middle Americans of a certain race and type) are worried about “furriners” (Klein’s word, not mine) and thus are out protesting. The “furriners” that we’re all afraid of, apparently, run the gamut from Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and, of course, educated, “uppity” (again, Klein’s word) blacks.

So, in one fell swoop, Klein addresses: Obama as representative of “the other”, the ignorance and lack of upper education of the protesters (implying that we’d all be so better able to understand Obama’ brilliance if we were all possessed of a secondary education), and the inherent racism/bigotry of ANY and ALL opposition to the President and his policies.

You see that same infantile arrogance in posters like Brian, when he talks about the “missing teeth” of the protesters and opines vacuously about American “weakness” as a function of the Bush presidency. One only has to look to today’s news of Obama’s abandonment of the missile defense shield and Putin’s evident glee to see American weakness.

Nope, what we’re treated to these days from the American Left, the MSM and the indoctrinated like Brian and Pat, is the product of a co-opted educational system, the death and dearth of critical thinking and analysis and the purblindness that comes from a misplaced sense of one’s superiority over those that dissent or disagree. It’s funny, but the very people that are accusing others of acting like Nazis are in fact behaving more like them.

“Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig”.[/quote]

Wow. That is a terrific post.

I could agree with you more.

Too many on the left seem to believe that anybody that doesn’t agree with them is not smart enough to know what is best for this country or even for oneself.

[felix]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Felix: I came across this little gem from Joe Klein over at Time: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/yes-its-racism-but-its-complicated/

In essence, Klein argues that, by and large, the protesters are indeed racist, but not solely based on Obama’s color. Rather, they (and the “they” in this case are high school educated Middle Americans of a certain race and type) are worried about “furriners” (Klein’s word, not mine) and thus are out protesting. The “furriners” that we’re all afraid of, apparently, run the gamut from Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and, of course, educated, “uppity” (again, Klein’s word) blacks.

So, in one fell swoop, Klein addresses: Obama as representative of “the other”, the ignorance and lack of upper education of the protesters (implying that we’d all be so better able to understand Obama’ brilliance if we were all possessed of a secondary education), and the inherent racism/bigotry of ANY and ALL opposition to the President and his policies.

You see that same infantile arrogance in posters like Brian, when he talks about the “missing teeth” of the protesters and opines vacuously about American “weakness” as a function of the Bush presidency. One only has to look to today’s news of Obama’s abandonment of the missile defense shield and Putin’s evident glee to see American weakness.

Nope, what we’re treated to these days from the American Left, the MSM and the indoctrinated like Brian and Pat, is the product of a co-opted educational system, the death and dearth of critical thinking and analysis and the purblindness that comes from a misplaced sense of one’s superiority over those that dissent or disagree. It’s funny, but the very people that are accusing others of acting like Nazis are in fact behaving more like them.

“Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig”.[/quote]

Wow. That is a terrific post.

I could agree with you more.

Too many on the left seem to believe that anybody that doesn’t agree with them is not smart enough to know what is best for this country or even for oneself.

[felix]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Felix: I came across this little gem from Joe Klein over at Time: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/yes-its-racism-but-its-complicated/

In essence, Klein argues that, by and large, the protesters are indeed racist, but not solely based on Obama’s color. Rather, they (and the “they” in this case are high school educated Middle Americans of a certain race and type) are worried about “furriners” (Klein’s word, not mine) and thus are out protesting. The “furriners” that we’re all afraid of, apparently, run the gamut from Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and, of course, educated, “uppity” (again, Klein’s word) blacks.

So, in one fell swoop, Klein addresses: Obama as representative of “the other”, the ignorance and lack of upper education of the protesters (implying that we’d all be so better able to understand Obama’ brilliance if we were all possessed of a secondary education), and the inherent racism/bigotry of ANY and ALL opposition to the President and his policies.

You see that same infantile arrogance in posters like Brian, when he talks about the “missing teeth” of the protesters and opines vacuously about American “weakness” as a function of the Bush presidency. One only has to look to today’s news of Obama’s abandonment of the missile defense shield and Putin’s evident glee to see American weakness.

Nope, what we’re treated to these days from the American Left, the MSM and the indoctrinated like Brian and Pat, is the product of a co-opted educational system, the death and dearth of critical thinking and analysis and the purblindness that comes from a misplaced sense of one’s superiority over those that dissent or disagree. It’s funny, but the very people that are accusing others of acting like Nazis are in fact behaving more like them.

“Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig”.[/quote]

Wow. That is a terrific post.

I could agree with you more.

Too many on the left seem to believe that anybody that doesn’t agree with them is not smart enough to know what is best for this country or even for oneself.

[felix]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Felix: I came across this little gem from Joe Klein over at Time: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/yes-its-racism-but-its-complicated/

In essence, Klein argues that, by and large, the protesters are indeed racist, but not solely based on Obama’s color. Rather, they (and the “they” in this case are high school educated Middle Americans of a certain race and type) are worried about “furriners” (Klein’s word, not mine) and thus are out protesting. The “furriners” that we’re all afraid of, apparently, run the gamut from Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and, of course, educated, “uppity” (again, Klein’s word) blacks.

So, in one fell swoop, Klein addresses: Obama as representative of “the other”, the ignorance and lack of upper education of the protesters (implying that we’d all be so better able to understand Obama’ brilliance if we were all possessed of a secondary education), and the inherent racism/bigotry of ANY and ALL opposition to the President and his policies.

You see that same infantile arrogance in posters like Brian, when he talks about the “missing teeth” of the protesters and opines vacuously about American “weakness” as a function of the Bush presidency. One only has to look to today’s news of Obama’s abandonment of the missile defense shield and Putin’s evident glee to see American weakness.

Nope, what we’re treated to these days from the American Left, the MSM and the indoctrinated like Brian and Pat, is the product of a co-opted educational system, the death and dearth of critical thinking and analysis and the purblindness that comes from a misplaced sense of one’s superiority over those that dissent or disagree. It’s funny, but the very people that are accusing others of acting like Nazis are in fact behaving more like them.

“Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig”.[/quote]

Wow. That is a terrific post.

I could agree with you more.

Too many on the left seem to believe that anybody that doesn’t agree with them is not smart enough to know what is best for this country or even for oneself.

[felix]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Felix: I came across this little gem from Joe Klein over at Time: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/16/yes-its-racism-but-its-complicated/

In essence, Klein argues that, by and large, the protesters are indeed racist, but not solely based on Obama’s color. Rather, they (and the “they” in this case are high school educated Middle Americans of a certain race and type) are worried about “furriners” (Klein’s word, not mine) and thus are out protesting. The “furriners” that we’re all afraid of, apparently, run the gamut from Hispanics, Asians, homosexuals and, of course, educated, “uppity” (again, Klein’s word) blacks.

So, in one fell swoop, Klein addresses: Obama as representative of “the other”, the ignorance and lack of upper education of the protesters (implying that we’d all be so better able to understand Obama’ brilliance if we were all possessed of a secondary education), and the inherent racism/bigotry of ANY and ALL opposition to the President and his policies.

You see that same infantile arrogance in posters like Brian, when he talks about the “missing teeth” of the protesters and opines vacuously about American “weakness” as a function of the Bush presidency. One only has to look to today’s news of Obama’s abandonment of the missile defense shield and Putin’s evident glee to see American weakness.

Nope, what we’re treated to these days from the American Left, the MSM and the indoctrinated like Brian and Pat, is the product of a co-opted educational system, the death and dearth of critical thinking and analysis and the purblindness that comes from a misplaced sense of one’s superiority over those that dissent or disagree. It’s funny, but the very people that are accusing others of acting like Nazis are in fact behaving more like them.

“Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig”.[/quote]

Wow. That is a terrific post.

I could agree with you more.

Too many on the left seem to believe that anybody that doesn’t agree with them is not smart enough to know what is best for this country or even for oneself.

[felix]

From what I have seen, you are correct in your assessment of those folks at these events. Many of those interviewed even say they voted for Obama. They are upset because they didn’t expect what he is trying to do.

Even my wife, an independent, who voted for Obama, thought she was voting for something totally different than what we are getting. My in-laws, a surgeon and nurse both voted for Obama but are also very dismayed over what has been happening and up in arms about the drastic changes proposed to health care.

Various parts of the media are either complicit in helping Obama reshape America as a socialist nation or still in denial over what is happening.

I am very disturbed over what is occurring politically particularly the aspect that our 4th estate, the media , is no longer primarily for news reporting but in their selection of what to cover and how to cover the “new’ are more like propaganda every day.

Most recently, the coverage of Van Jones and Acorn have demonstrated that some parts of the media don’t want the most transparent administration ever. They are more comfortable with folks not knowing what is going on.

[felix]

From what I have seen, you are correct in your assessment of those folks at these events. Many of those interviewed even say they voted for Obama. They are upset because they didn’t expect what he is trying to do.

Even my wife, an independent, who voted for Obama, thought she was voting for something totally different than what we are getting. My in-laws, a surgeon and nurse both voted for Obama but are also very dismayed over what has been happening and up in arms about the drastic changes proposed to health care.

Various parts of the media are either complicit in helping Obama reshape America as a socialist nation or still in denial over what is happening.

I am very disturbed over what is occurring politically particularly the aspect that our 4th estate, the media , is no longer primarily for news reporting but in their selection of what to cover and how to cover the “new’ are more like propaganda every day.

Most recently, the coverage of Van Jones and Acorn have demonstrated that some parts of the media don’t want the most transparent administration ever. They are more comfortable with folks not knowing what is going on.

[felix]

From what I have seen, you are correct in your assessment of those folks at these events. Many of those interviewed even say they voted for Obama. They are upset because they didn’t expect what he is trying to do.

Even my wife, an independent, who voted for Obama, thought she was voting for something totally different than what we are getting. My in-laws, a surgeon and nurse both voted for Obama but are also very dismayed over what has been happening and up in arms about the drastic changes proposed to health care.

Various parts of the media are either complicit in helping Obama reshape America as a socialist nation or still in denial over what is happening.

I am very disturbed over what is occurring politically particularly the aspect that our 4th estate, the media , is no longer primarily for news reporting but in their selection of what to cover and how to cover the “new’ are more like propaganda every day.

Most recently, the coverage of Van Jones and Acorn have demonstrated that some parts of the media don’t want the most transparent administration ever. They are more comfortable with folks not knowing what is going on.

[felix]

From what I have seen, you are correct in your assessment of those folks at these events. Many of those interviewed even say they voted for Obama. They are upset because they didn’t expect what he is trying to do.

Even my wife, an independent, who voted for Obama, thought she was voting for something totally different than what we are getting. My in-laws, a surgeon and nurse both voted for Obama but are also very dismayed over what has been happening and up in arms about the drastic changes proposed to health care.

Various parts of the media are either complicit in helping Obama reshape America as a socialist nation or still in denial over what is happening.

I am very disturbed over what is occurring politically particularly the aspect that our 4th estate, the media , is no longer primarily for news reporting but in their selection of what to cover and how to cover the “new’ are more like propaganda every day.

Most recently, the coverage of Van Jones and Acorn have demonstrated that some parts of the media don’t want the most transparent administration ever. They are more comfortable with folks not knowing what is going on.

[felix]

From what I have seen, you are correct in your assessment of those folks at these events. Many of those interviewed even say they voted for Obama. They are upset because they didn’t expect what he is trying to do.

Even my wife, an independent, who voted for Obama, thought she was voting for something totally different than what we are getting. My in-laws, a surgeon and nurse both voted for Obama but are also very dismayed over what has been happening and up in arms about the drastic changes proposed to health care.

Various parts of the media are either complicit in helping Obama reshape America as a socialist nation or still in denial over what is happening.

I am very disturbed over what is occurring politically particularly the aspect that our 4th estate, the media , is no longer primarily for news reporting but in their selection of what to cover and how to cover the “new’ are more like propaganda every day.

Most recently, the coverage of Van Jones and Acorn have demonstrated that some parts of the media don’t want the most transparent administration ever. They are more comfortable with folks not knowing what is going on.

[felix]

I disagree with you a bit. To me, it is a moral society that takes care of those who can not take care of themselves. And in the alternative, those capable of taking care of themselves should. That is both personal and community responsibility. I think both parties have at least said they are for more personal responsibility.

I also think the least moral isn’t the person who doesn’t want to pay for another’s health care but those who are capable of working for or paying their own health bills but who demand someone else to pay for it instead.

Why don’t we expect capable folks to pay for their own health care and not tax others to pay for it?

Perhaps, those capable folks who say they struggle to find the $ to pay for their own health care could go without their cell phones, cable, flat screen TVs and other things, like generations prior to the entitlement generations did.

[felix]

I disagree with you a bit. To me, it is a moral society that takes care of those who can not take care of themselves. And in the alternative, those capable of taking care of themselves should. That is both personal and community responsibility. I think both parties have at least said they are for more personal responsibility.

I also think the least moral isn’t the person who doesn’t want to pay for another’s health care but those who are capable of working for or paying their own health bills but who demand someone else to pay for it instead.

Why don’t we expect capable folks to pay for their own health care and not tax others to pay for it?

Perhaps, those capable folks who say they struggle to find the $ to pay for their own health care could go without their cell phones, cable, flat screen TVs and other things, like generations prior to the entitlement generations did.

[felix]

I disagree with you a bit. To me, it is a moral society that takes care of those who can not take care of themselves. And in the alternative, those capable of taking care of themselves should. That is both personal and community responsibility. I think both parties have at least said they are for more personal responsibility.

I also think the least moral isn’t the person who doesn’t want to pay for another’s health care but those who are capable of working for or paying their own health bills but who demand someone else to pay for it instead.

Why don’t we expect capable folks to pay for their own health care and not tax others to pay for it?

Perhaps, those capable folks who say they struggle to find the $ to pay for their own health care could go without their cell phones, cable, flat screen TVs and other things, like generations prior to the entitlement generations did.

[felix]

I disagree with you a bit. To me, it is a moral society that takes care of those who can not take care of themselves. And in the alternative, those capable of taking care of themselves should. That is both personal and community responsibility. I think both parties have at least said they are for more personal responsibility.

I also think the least moral isn’t the person who doesn’t want to pay for another’s health care but those who are capable of working for or paying their own health bills but who demand someone else to pay for it instead.

Why don’t we expect capable folks to pay for their own health care and not tax others to pay for it?

Perhaps, those capable folks who say they struggle to find the $ to pay for their own health care could go without their cell phones, cable, flat screen TVs and other things, like generations prior to the entitlement generations did.

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