OT: FOX News and the oil blowout

[briansd1]

[quote=eavesdropper]
In the meantime, these people need to stop writing checks with their mouths that their asses can’t cash. If they think that the government is too big, too into their business, too restrictive, and tyrannical to boot, they SHOULD go ahead and denounce them. In the meantime, however, they should give up their Social Security, give up their disability, forego their government-sponsored health care, take in their elderly relatives, and pay for their kids’ education. And if any of their loved ones get sick, they can have them treated to the extent of their abilities and bankbooks, and accept the inevitable if the treatment is not successful. It can be done. Yes, it will be tough. But tough is what these rebels are all about, right?[/quote]

That’s excellent, eavesdropper. Quitting their government or government subsidized jobs is another one I would add.

And someone told me to stop driving or support drill-baby-drill. 😉

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Djshakes] I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases…. [/quote]

You’ve brought up a number of subtle but salient points in your post, and they mirror many of mine. I think that the course of events in your scenario is dead-on, but I honestly don’t know what the solution is. My armchair psychologist’s take is that many people, whose self-esteem is already seriously compromised, totally identify with their political party, and if you criticize any action taken or quote uttered by any representative of that party, you are directly criticizing them. I think that this trend is partially responsible for the severe polarization we see in America today.

There are many on this forum who are in the practice of carefully considering situations from a number of angles, and who realize that there will always be some bit of contradiction in our philosophies. We approach these questions critically, working through a number of scenarios, refining as we go, until we arrive at a rational conclusion. We will change our philosophies if that becomes necessary. Unfortunately, most people these days seem to prefer changing the facts of a situation instead.

Eight or ten years ago, many people I knew were eager to engage in political discussion. It could get heated, but for the most part, something approaching an exchange of ideas would take place. This worked best with someone whose philosophies were at a variance with mine, since this led to a true demonstration of argumentation skills, and I was often able to learn quite a bit of new information in the process. At the least, it would frequently spur me on to seeking out information on a topic about which I believed I had the whole story, and could cause me to alter my views.

That’s not the case anymore. People want to put their opinions out there for everyone to see, but they are too chickenshit to defend them in any way. You’re absolutely correct: people hold fast to these opinions until a catastrophic event forces recognition of philosophical flaws through the thick layer of denial that exists in their minds. And situations that should be guided by calm critical thought and intellect, are instead handled in a reactionary manner.

[quote=Djshakes] In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.[/quote]

I don’t know if the missteps of the Bush Administration created a momentum to the left so much as a momentum to “something different”. Despite what I consider to be some pretty outrageous actions (and inactions) over the eight years of GWB, I think that the momentum to the right was still fairly strong, and people were reluctant to let that go. I believe that John McCain may well have won the election if he had picked a more suitable VP candidate. People chose the “least objectionable” team (or simply declined to cast a vote), and hoped for the best. However, the extreme far right went to work immediately after the election, and hit the Democrats hard and fast with a strategy that had been highly successful for the two decades since the Lee Atwater-directed campaign of Bush 1. The fact is that the Democrats who continued to revel in their great victory, which they believed to be based on their platform, didn’t recognize this action for the serious threat that it was, and continues to be. They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans.

Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Djshakes] I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases…. [/quote]

You’ve brought up a number of subtle but salient points in your post, and they mirror many of mine. I think that the course of events in your scenario is dead-on, but I honestly don’t know what the solution is. My armchair psychologist’s take is that many people, whose self-esteem is already seriously compromised, totally identify with their political party, and if you criticize any action taken or quote uttered by any representative of that party, you are directly criticizing them. I think that this trend is partially responsible for the severe polarization we see in America today.

There are many on this forum who are in the practice of carefully considering situations from a number of angles, and who realize that there will always be some bit of contradiction in our philosophies. We approach these questions critically, working through a number of scenarios, refining as we go, until we arrive at a rational conclusion. We will change our philosophies if that becomes necessary. Unfortunately, most people these days seem to prefer changing the facts of a situation instead.

Eight or ten years ago, many people I knew were eager to engage in political discussion. It could get heated, but for the most part, something approaching an exchange of ideas would take place. This worked best with someone whose philosophies were at a variance with mine, since this led to a true demonstration of argumentation skills, and I was often able to learn quite a bit of new information in the process. At the least, it would frequently spur me on to seeking out information on a topic about which I believed I had the whole story, and could cause me to alter my views.

That’s not the case anymore. People want to put their opinions out there for everyone to see, but they are too chickenshit to defend them in any way. You’re absolutely correct: people hold fast to these opinions until a catastrophic event forces recognition of philosophical flaws through the thick layer of denial that exists in their minds. And situations that should be guided by calm critical thought and intellect, are instead handled in a reactionary manner.

[quote=Djshakes] In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.[/quote]

I don’t know if the missteps of the Bush Administration created a momentum to the left so much as a momentum to “something different”. Despite what I consider to be some pretty outrageous actions (and inactions) over the eight years of GWB, I think that the momentum to the right was still fairly strong, and people were reluctant to let that go. I believe that John McCain may well have won the election if he had picked a more suitable VP candidate. People chose the “least objectionable” team (or simply declined to cast a vote), and hoped for the best. However, the extreme far right went to work immediately after the election, and hit the Democrats hard and fast with a strategy that had been highly successful for the two decades since the Lee Atwater-directed campaign of Bush 1. The fact is that the Democrats who continued to revel in their great victory, which they believed to be based on their platform, didn’t recognize this action for the serious threat that it was, and continues to be. They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans.

Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Djshakes] I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases…. [/quote]

You’ve brought up a number of subtle but salient points in your post, and they mirror many of mine. I think that the course of events in your scenario is dead-on, but I honestly don’t know what the solution is. My armchair psychologist’s take is that many people, whose self-esteem is already seriously compromised, totally identify with their political party, and if you criticize any action taken or quote uttered by any representative of that party, you are directly criticizing them. I think that this trend is partially responsible for the severe polarization we see in America today.

There are many on this forum who are in the practice of carefully considering situations from a number of angles, and who realize that there will always be some bit of contradiction in our philosophies. We approach these questions critically, working through a number of scenarios, refining as we go, until we arrive at a rational conclusion. We will change our philosophies if that becomes necessary. Unfortunately, most people these days seem to prefer changing the facts of a situation instead.

Eight or ten years ago, many people I knew were eager to engage in political discussion. It could get heated, but for the most part, something approaching an exchange of ideas would take place. This worked best with someone whose philosophies were at a variance with mine, since this led to a true demonstration of argumentation skills, and I was often able to learn quite a bit of new information in the process. At the least, it would frequently spur me on to seeking out information on a topic about which I believed I had the whole story, and could cause me to alter my views.

That’s not the case anymore. People want to put their opinions out there for everyone to see, but they are too chickenshit to defend them in any way. You’re absolutely correct: people hold fast to these opinions until a catastrophic event forces recognition of philosophical flaws through the thick layer of denial that exists in their minds. And situations that should be guided by calm critical thought and intellect, are instead handled in a reactionary manner.

[quote=Djshakes] In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.[/quote]

I don’t know if the missteps of the Bush Administration created a momentum to the left so much as a momentum to “something different”. Despite what I consider to be some pretty outrageous actions (and inactions) over the eight years of GWB, I think that the momentum to the right was still fairly strong, and people were reluctant to let that go. I believe that John McCain may well have won the election if he had picked a more suitable VP candidate. People chose the “least objectionable” team (or simply declined to cast a vote), and hoped for the best. However, the extreme far right went to work immediately after the election, and hit the Democrats hard and fast with a strategy that had been highly successful for the two decades since the Lee Atwater-directed campaign of Bush 1. The fact is that the Democrats who continued to revel in their great victory, which they believed to be based on their platform, didn’t recognize this action for the serious threat that it was, and continues to be. They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans.

Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Djshakes] I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases…. [/quote]

You’ve brought up a number of subtle but salient points in your post, and they mirror many of mine. I think that the course of events in your scenario is dead-on, but I honestly don’t know what the solution is. My armchair psychologist’s take is that many people, whose self-esteem is already seriously compromised, totally identify with their political party, and if you criticize any action taken or quote uttered by any representative of that party, you are directly criticizing them. I think that this trend is partially responsible for the severe polarization we see in America today.

There are many on this forum who are in the practice of carefully considering situations from a number of angles, and who realize that there will always be some bit of contradiction in our philosophies. We approach these questions critically, working through a number of scenarios, refining as we go, until we arrive at a rational conclusion. We will change our philosophies if that becomes necessary. Unfortunately, most people these days seem to prefer changing the facts of a situation instead.

Eight or ten years ago, many people I knew were eager to engage in political discussion. It could get heated, but for the most part, something approaching an exchange of ideas would take place. This worked best with someone whose philosophies were at a variance with mine, since this led to a true demonstration of argumentation skills, and I was often able to learn quite a bit of new information in the process. At the least, it would frequently spur me on to seeking out information on a topic about which I believed I had the whole story, and could cause me to alter my views.

That’s not the case anymore. People want to put their opinions out there for everyone to see, but they are too chickenshit to defend them in any way. You’re absolutely correct: people hold fast to these opinions until a catastrophic event forces recognition of philosophical flaws through the thick layer of denial that exists in their minds. And situations that should be guided by calm critical thought and intellect, are instead handled in a reactionary manner.

[quote=Djshakes] In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.[/quote]

I don’t know if the missteps of the Bush Administration created a momentum to the left so much as a momentum to “something different”. Despite what I consider to be some pretty outrageous actions (and inactions) over the eight years of GWB, I think that the momentum to the right was still fairly strong, and people were reluctant to let that go. I believe that John McCain may well have won the election if he had picked a more suitable VP candidate. People chose the “least objectionable” team (or simply declined to cast a vote), and hoped for the best. However, the extreme far right went to work immediately after the election, and hit the Democrats hard and fast with a strategy that had been highly successful for the two decades since the Lee Atwater-directed campaign of Bush 1. The fact is that the Democrats who continued to revel in their great victory, which they believed to be based on their platform, didn’t recognize this action for the serious threat that it was, and continues to be. They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans.

Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Djshakes] I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases…. [/quote]

You’ve brought up a number of subtle but salient points in your post, and they mirror many of mine. I think that the course of events in your scenario is dead-on, but I honestly don’t know what the solution is. My armchair psychologist’s take is that many people, whose self-esteem is already seriously compromised, totally identify with their political party, and if you criticize any action taken or quote uttered by any representative of that party, you are directly criticizing them. I think that this trend is partially responsible for the severe polarization we see in America today.

There are many on this forum who are in the practice of carefully considering situations from a number of angles, and who realize that there will always be some bit of contradiction in our philosophies. We approach these questions critically, working through a number of scenarios, refining as we go, until we arrive at a rational conclusion. We will change our philosophies if that becomes necessary. Unfortunately, most people these days seem to prefer changing the facts of a situation instead.

Eight or ten years ago, many people I knew were eager to engage in political discussion. It could get heated, but for the most part, something approaching an exchange of ideas would take place. This worked best with someone whose philosophies were at a variance with mine, since this led to a true demonstration of argumentation skills, and I was often able to learn quite a bit of new information in the process. At the least, it would frequently spur me on to seeking out information on a topic about which I believed I had the whole story, and could cause me to alter my views.

That’s not the case anymore. People want to put their opinions out there for everyone to see, but they are too chickenshit to defend them in any way. You’re absolutely correct: people hold fast to these opinions until a catastrophic event forces recognition of philosophical flaws through the thick layer of denial that exists in their minds. And situations that should be guided by calm critical thought and intellect, are instead handled in a reactionary manner.

[quote=Djshakes] In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.[/quote]

I don’t know if the missteps of the Bush Administration created a momentum to the left so much as a momentum to “something different”. Despite what I consider to be some pretty outrageous actions (and inactions) over the eight years of GWB, I think that the momentum to the right was still fairly strong, and people were reluctant to let that go. I believe that John McCain may well have won the election if he had picked a more suitable VP candidate. People chose the “least objectionable” team (or simply declined to cast a vote), and hoped for the best. However, the extreme far right went to work immediately after the election, and hit the Democrats hard and fast with a strategy that had been highly successful for the two decades since the Lee Atwater-directed campaign of Bush 1. The fact is that the Democrats who continued to revel in their great victory, which they believed to be based on their platform, didn’t recognize this action for the serious threat that it was, and continues to be. They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans.

Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.[/quote]

I agree, but as you mentioned, we live in polarized times and it seems as soon as someone hears, “I’m liberal” or “I’m conservative” the discussion ends or becomes defensive if the person engaging in the discussion is of opposite affiliation. I guess if I need to preface with a condition in order to engage in productive discussion I will do it. If neither side gives…we are never going to get anywhere.

It is funny how some conservatives pride themselves on being patriotic but will often shut down any opposing views when the very core of this great country is the right to express those views as long as they don’t bring harm to others. In turn, some liberals pride themselves as being all excepting and embracing…as long as the views being embraced reflect their own. I guess you can chalk it up to ignorance and only hope that those people can be educated and refine their thinking.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.[/quote]

I agree, but as you mentioned, we live in polarized times and it seems as soon as someone hears, “I’m liberal” or “I’m conservative” the discussion ends or becomes defensive if the person engaging in the discussion is of opposite affiliation. I guess if I need to preface with a condition in order to engage in productive discussion I will do it. If neither side gives…we are never going to get anywhere.

It is funny how some conservatives pride themselves on being patriotic but will often shut down any opposing views when the very core of this great country is the right to express those views as long as they don’t bring harm to others. In turn, some liberals pride themselves as being all excepting and embracing…as long as the views being embraced reflect their own. I guess you can chalk it up to ignorance and only hope that those people can be educated and refine their thinking.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.[/quote]

I agree, but as you mentioned, we live in polarized times and it seems as soon as someone hears, “I’m liberal” or “I’m conservative” the discussion ends or becomes defensive if the person engaging in the discussion is of opposite affiliation. I guess if I need to preface with a condition in order to engage in productive discussion I will do it. If neither side gives…we are never going to get anywhere.

It is funny how some conservatives pride themselves on being patriotic but will often shut down any opposing views when the very core of this great country is the right to express those views as long as they don’t bring harm to others. In turn, some liberals pride themselves as being all excepting and embracing…as long as the views being embraced reflect their own. I guess you can chalk it up to ignorance and only hope that those people can be educated and refine their thinking.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.[/quote]

I agree, but as you mentioned, we live in polarized times and it seems as soon as someone hears, “I’m liberal” or “I’m conservative” the discussion ends or becomes defensive if the person engaging in the discussion is of opposite affiliation. I guess if I need to preface with a condition in order to engage in productive discussion I will do it. If neither side gives…we are never going to get anywhere.

It is funny how some conservatives pride themselves on being patriotic but will often shut down any opposing views when the very core of this great country is the right to express those views as long as they don’t bring harm to others. In turn, some liberals pride themselves as being all excepting and embracing…as long as the views being embraced reflect their own. I guess you can chalk it up to ignorance and only hope that those people can be educated and refine their thinking.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Your statement, “I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life”, is sobering. Not because of your political leanings or views, but because you felt compelled to preface “I am a conservative” with the conditional “I am not going to lie”. I feel sad because I, too, feel a similar need to condition any expression of my political views, largely because of the current political atmosphere. I miss those days of free and feisty political exchange from a decade ago. I feel like my freedom to evaluate and judge and choose political views and candidates is being viewed as unpatriotic, and is being challenged. That frightens me.[/quote]

I agree, but as you mentioned, we live in polarized times and it seems as soon as someone hears, “I’m liberal” or “I’m conservative” the discussion ends or becomes defensive if the person engaging in the discussion is of opposite affiliation. I guess if I need to preface with a condition in order to engage in productive discussion I will do it. If neither side gives…we are never going to get anywhere.

It is funny how some conservatives pride themselves on being patriotic but will often shut down any opposing views when the very core of this great country is the right to express those views as long as they don’t bring harm to others. In turn, some liberals pride themselves as being all excepting and embracing…as long as the views being embraced reflect their own. I guess you can chalk it up to ignorance and only hope that those people can be educated and refine their thinking.

[Aecetia]

Very thoughtful eaves and the quote: “They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans” applies to both parties. I think there is a very anti-incumbent sentiment now, not just anti Democrat or Republican. Both parties have seriously misread the tea leaves and are going to pay a price for their arrogance and for appearing to not care about what is worrying the average American- it is still the economy for most people.

[Aecetia]

Very thoughtful eaves and the quote: “They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans” applies to both parties. I think there is a very anti-incumbent sentiment now, not just anti Democrat or Republican. Both parties have seriously misread the tea leaves and are going to pay a price for their arrogance and for appearing to not care about what is worrying the average American- it is still the economy for most people.

[Aecetia]

Very thoughtful eaves and the quote: “They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans” applies to both parties. I think there is a very anti-incumbent sentiment now, not just anti Democrat or Republican. Both parties have seriously misread the tea leaves and are going to pay a price for their arrogance and for appearing to not care about what is worrying the average American- it is still the economy for most people.

[Aecetia]

Very thoughtful eaves and the quote: “They are still missing the boat on what really is pissing off Americans” applies to both parties. I think there is a very anti-incumbent sentiment now, not just anti Democrat or Republican. Both parties have seriously misread the tea leaves and are going to pay a price for their arrogance and for appearing to not care about what is worrying the average American- it is still the economy for most people.

[Author]

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