OT: FOX News and the oil blowout

[Arraya]

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
However, while energy has been a key driver of global integration and complexity, the structures we have created do not depend only on energy. Because any structure with a fundamental dependence on the buy-in of new entrants, and therefore the constant need to expand, is grounded in Ponzi dynamics, these structures are inherently self-limiting (see From the Top of the Great Pyramid.

We have reached the limit beyond which we cannot continue to expand, there being no more virgin continents to exploit in our over-crowded world. The logic of Ponzi dynamics dictates that we will now experience a dramatic contraction, and that our financial structure, which is the most complex and most vulnerable part of our hypertrophic political system, will become the key driver to the downside during that period. Part of that contraction will be of our available energy supplies and ability to distribute energy to where it is needed, both of which will fall victim to many ‘above-ground factors’ in the years to come (see Energy, Finance and Hegemonic Power).

snip

Elites (top predators) will have a smaller peripheral pool from which to extract the tithes they have come to expect. No longer able to pick the pockets of the whole world, they will very likely squeeze domestic populations much harder in a vain attempt to maintain the resources of the centre at their previous level. This will be very painful for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who will be asked, told and eventually forced to increase their contributions, at the very moment their ability to do so declines sharply.

Whether the left or the right presides over contraction, we are most likely to see a much more pathological face emerge, and this will aggravate political crisis considerably. On the right this could be xenophobia, strict enforcement of tight and arbitrary norms dictated by the few, loss of civil rights, extreme poverty for most while a few live like kings, and fascism, perhaps grounded in theocracy.

On the left it could be forced collectivization, the elimination of property rights, confiscations, and a desire to punish anyone who appears to be doing relatively well, whether or not they achieved this legitimately through foresight, hard work and fiscal responsibility. In either case, liberty is likely to be an early casualty, and intolerance of differences is virtually guaranteed to increase.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?[/quote]

Brian: And you wonder why you have the reputation you do on this board?

Or, perhaps you don’t.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?[/quote]

Brian: And you wonder why you have the reputation you do on this board?

Or, perhaps you don’t.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?[/quote]

Brian: And you wonder why you have the reputation you do on this board?

Or, perhaps you don’t.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?[/quote]

Brian: And you wonder why you have the reputation you do on this board?

Or, perhaps you don’t.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Your point about regulations being relaxed under Bush/Cheney is certainly valid, but, in truth, these facilities and Chem/Petrochem, have enjoyed prefential treatment for decades, and largely because of our need for their products.
[/quote]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Yeah, we can point a finger at Bush/Cheney and with some validity. But, let’s also be honest about Obama, too. We’re not seeing anything approaching a national energy program, and I can say this because I also work on protective design, largely for Force Protection, in the private nuke sector, and I hear the complaints regarding the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees.
[/quote]

Jim Jones, consider the facts Allan enumerated above.

I was specifically addressing the post made by Allan who, on this thread, warned me to be precise and that words have meanings.

Did Obama’s supposed lack of a “national energy program”, and “the difficulties in permitting, approvals and loan guarantees” in “the private nuke sector” contribute to THIS disaster in the Gulf? Consider the facts Allan pointed to and their contribution to THIS gulf disaster.

Remember, Allan is the one who suggested that I should not use the word “drilling” to refer to the oil industry in general because drilling is not cementing.

Are we talking big picture policy or meanings of words?[/quote]

Brian: And you wonder why you have the reputation you do on this board?

Or, perhaps you don’t.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

I’m not excusing the Republicans. I’m in awe of their skill in gauging the concerns and frustrations of the American people. The problem is that they exploit this, without any intention of providing relief. They get people worked up over government overspending, over taxes, over “death panels”. Then they head into the Senate and House chambers, and it’s business as usual. And I don’t buy into the “Tea Party” at all. Not only aren’t they organized worth a damn, I believe that many of them are right-wing extremists trying to force the Republican Party they belong to into ultra-restrictive far-right views. And force-feeding us Sarah Palin in the process.

Allan, please tell me there’s hope. You can lie to me, if necessary. I’m used to it – I’ve been voting for many years.[/quote]

I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases. After the Gulf spill I am unsure how I feel about off-shore drilling. I say unsure because obviously it can lead to disasters like this but I also recognize the fact that we need sources of energy and I would like not to depend on other countries for this energy. So, what is the answer when we don’t have renewable energy sources? My left side is recognizing the earth in which we need to preserve and the right is recognizing the fact that we need oil to live. Herein lies the frustration. I am guilty of the reactionary thinking I mentioned above but at least I recognize both sides of the issue and would hope to find a happy medium instead of spouting off left or right talking points to justify a stubbornness. If we had renewable energy I would say shut down oil right now…but we don’t.

In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

I’m not excusing the Republicans. I’m in awe of their skill in gauging the concerns and frustrations of the American people. The problem is that they exploit this, without any intention of providing relief. They get people worked up over government overspending, over taxes, over “death panels”. Then they head into the Senate and House chambers, and it’s business as usual. And I don’t buy into the “Tea Party” at all. Not only aren’t they organized worth a damn, I believe that many of them are right-wing extremists trying to force the Republican Party they belong to into ultra-restrictive far-right views. And force-feeding us Sarah Palin in the process.

Allan, please tell me there’s hope. You can lie to me, if necessary. I’m used to it – I’ve been voting for many years.[/quote]

I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases. After the Gulf spill I am unsure how I feel about off-shore drilling. I say unsure because obviously it can lead to disasters like this but I also recognize the fact that we need sources of energy and I would like not to depend on other countries for this energy. So, what is the answer when we don’t have renewable energy sources? My left side is recognizing the earth in which we need to preserve and the right is recognizing the fact that we need oil to live. Herein lies the frustration. I am guilty of the reactionary thinking I mentioned above but at least I recognize both sides of the issue and would hope to find a happy medium instead of spouting off left or right talking points to justify a stubbornness. If we had renewable energy I would say shut down oil right now…but we don’t.

In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

I’m not excusing the Republicans. I’m in awe of their skill in gauging the concerns and frustrations of the American people. The problem is that they exploit this, without any intention of providing relief. They get people worked up over government overspending, over taxes, over “death panels”. Then they head into the Senate and House chambers, and it’s business as usual. And I don’t buy into the “Tea Party” at all. Not only aren’t they organized worth a damn, I believe that many of them are right-wing extremists trying to force the Republican Party they belong to into ultra-restrictive far-right views. And force-feeding us Sarah Palin in the process.

Allan, please tell me there’s hope. You can lie to me, if necessary. I’m used to it – I’ve been voting for many years.[/quote]

I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases. After the Gulf spill I am unsure how I feel about off-shore drilling. I say unsure because obviously it can lead to disasters like this but I also recognize the fact that we need sources of energy and I would like not to depend on other countries for this energy. So, what is the answer when we don’t have renewable energy sources? My left side is recognizing the earth in which we need to preserve and the right is recognizing the fact that we need oil to live. Herein lies the frustration. I am guilty of the reactionary thinking I mentioned above but at least I recognize both sides of the issue and would hope to find a happy medium instead of spouting off left or right talking points to justify a stubbornness. If we had renewable energy I would say shut down oil right now…but we don’t.

In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.

[Djshakes]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

I’m not excusing the Republicans. I’m in awe of their skill in gauging the concerns and frustrations of the American people. The problem is that they exploit this, without any intention of providing relief. They get people worked up over government overspending, over taxes, over “death panels”. Then they head into the Senate and House chambers, and it’s business as usual. And I don’t buy into the “Tea Party” at all. Not only aren’t they organized worth a damn, I believe that many of them are right-wing extremists trying to force the Republican Party they belong to into ultra-restrictive far-right views. And force-feeding us Sarah Palin in the process.

Allan, please tell me there’s hope. You can lie to me, if necessary. I’m used to it – I’ve been voting for many years.[/quote]

I often wonder if there is hope as I feel this country is going to commit suicide from within. The ying and yang of a two party system is that most people can identify with either party and they are represented but they also fail to accept or recognize the fault of their own party. This stubbornness will ultimately doom us as people fail to see reality. Such is the case with members like Brian. According to him, Obama, liberals and progressives can do no wrong. This is scary because each end of the spectrum has faults. It is unfortunate because this train of thought can only be changed with catastrophic events like planes flying into buildings or massive environmental catastrophes. This leads to reactionary thinking when we need to be proactive and truthful with ourselves, even if that truth hurts because it conflicts with our individual biases. After the Gulf spill I am unsure how I feel about off-shore drilling. I say unsure because obviously it can lead to disasters like this but I also recognize the fact that we need sources of energy and I would like not to depend on other countries for this energy. So, what is the answer when we don’t have renewable energy sources? My left side is recognizing the earth in which we need to preserve and the right is recognizing the fact that we need oil to live. Herein lies the frustration. I am guilty of the reactionary thinking I mentioned above but at least I recognize both sides of the issue and would hope to find a happy medium instead of spouting off left or right talking points to justify a stubbornness. If we had renewable energy I would say shut down oil right now…but we don’t.

In the past decade the pendulum has been swinging with stronger force than usual. Bush’s idiotic administration was the driving force in creating momentum to the left, where as now, Obama’s administration is creating discontent and force through the tea parties, etc. to the right. I only hope that it will somehow settle in the center/center-right in which I consider reality.

The founding fathers created a country in which they hope would fall in the center or center-right. The “right” in center being limited federal government intervention. I am not going to lie, I am a conservative when it comes to limited powers of federal government’s ability to be involved in my personal life. However, don’t mistake me for a republican as I feel both parties are one in the same and only care about the survival of their political career/party. Government is government and once they create a tax, law, coalition, organization, branch it is pretty much the closest thing to eternal life on this planet. Based on their track record of Medicare, Social Security, etc. I don’t have a lot of confidence that they can create efficient, productive solutions.

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