OT – FIFA officials arrested in Switzerland

[spdrun]

The US has pressed some sort of corruption charges against a bunch of FIFA (soccer) officials, and we had them arrested in Switzerland pending an extradition hearing.

To me, this seems like a hell of a waste of time and money, for crimes that may have used the US banking system, but didn’t really occur in the US. I’d sooner the US go after Qatar directly through sanctions for allowing massive human rights violations to go on in their country.

Also, not a single person spent a day in jail for the BP oil spill in 2010. The corporations were fined, but no one went to prison. That thing killed 11 people and caused massive damage to the ecology of the Gulf. Talk about hypocrisy. Going after crimes abroad with scant effect on the US while going easy on people who caused massive and permanent damage in the US. If you want to talk about corruption, THAT is it.

I wonder if this is all payback for giving the World Cup to Russia.

[no_such_reality]

Let it play out, the corruption runs deep and may lead to surprising places.

Besides your complaints about BP and Qatar are really just the aftermath of corruption. Corruption and money in politics is what keeps both from occuring.

And while the USA has plenty of money corrupting everything, it pales compared to the rest of the planet.

[spdrun]

Corruption is just a form of bargaining. How is this different from cities clamoring to build new stadia for the NFL, except that the latter is cloaked in a veil of respectability?

Just a way things are done in much of the world. Not necessarily good nor evil. Who the HELL are we to impose our idea of morality and fair play on the rest of the world? The US needs to be cut down to size and know its place. Things like this make me ashamed to be an American.

Murdering cops walk. Warmongers responsible for tens of thousands of deaths walk. Gross polluters who also kill people walk. Bankers who commit fraud walk. But soccer officials get indicted. I hope a Swiss judge makes it damn hard for us to extradite/kidnap those people to the US.

BTW – incorruptible people who truly believe in what they’re doing can be just as bad. A lot of genocidal thugs have been true believers rather than being corrupt, and a lot of corrupt officials have actually been decent in other respects.

[no_such_reality]

Corruption is not a form of bargaining.

And funny you rant about the Stadium deals because that is what corruption gets you. The many being bilked for the benefits of the few.

[spdrun]

You’re looking at this from a naive, pious, holier-than-thou American perspective. Corruption in many cases is just tipping on a larger scale.

And let’s not kid ourselves. We’re highly corrupt. We just choose to cloak it in legality and legitimacy and not call it what it is. We call it lobbying, dealmaking, or urban renewal.

Small-scale corruption also helps the many and tempers over-zealous regulations and fines. Much better to be able to pay a cop $50 to go fuck off vs getting a $1000 ticket for a comparatively minor offense. Cop gets a few bucks, higher-ups get a cut, everyone walks away happy.

[no_such_reality]

I can choose not to deal with tip bigot wait staff.

I can choose not to deal with FIFA.

I cannot choose to not deal with the Government and their agents.

That’s a big difference.

It’s not holier than thou, it’s recognizing the propagation of the unlevel playing field.

And small scale corruption does nothing of the sort to temper over zealous regulations and fines and help the small, it bends them over the barrel. Over zealous regulations and fines are the tools of corruption to line their pockets.

[spdrun]

We have the worst of both worlds here in Dumberica. Over-zealous regulations, high fines, often enforced on those least able to pay. Combined with brainwashed cops who are proud of their incorruptibility and are all too willing to use violence to enforce the petty regulations.

We’re not ones to talk about a level playing field when we keep 1% of our population in prison and keep another large % unemployable due to criminal records.

We’re just throwing our (too great, obese) weight around in order to make the world easy for American corporations to operate in abroad. Yay for increased homogeneity and turning the world’s cities into giant malls.

It’s no wonder why a lot of people outside the US hate us, and they’re right to do so.

[FlyerInHi]

As an American, I’m glad that our law enforcement has long reach. We should use it sparingly because one day, another country will us the same legal maneuvers against our citizens.

[spdrun]

^^^ Well said.

[FlyerInHi]

Another thing, each issue is separate, let’s not lump everything together and say all or nothing.

We do a lot of good around the world. For example, we have laws against bribing foreign officials. Child sex and pornography sex are crimes that can be prosecuted in USA even though committed abroad. So we’re raising the bar for civilized conduct.

Fortunately, we’re not as arrogant as we used to be during the Bush years. We are repairing our foreign relations. As you know, we can break things in 1 day which take years to repair.

[spdrun]

I support the child sex laws. As far as anti-bribery, I don’t really support it. Different cultures have different definitions of civilization, and I don’t see the need for us to force our definition on the rest of the world. As I said, low-level corruption is often a good thing. Red tape and overzealous legislation will exist regardless. The ability to cut through that sort of mess is a good thing.

Besides, oftentimes, the really evil people in government are the true believers, not the people who take some money on the side.

FIFA was a private organization. If its officials chose to auction off locations for the World Cup via who could pay the biggest bribe, I don’t actually have a problem with it. We’re not talking about building a hospital here. We’re talking about the location for a child’s game.

Our ire should have been limited to not participating, not throwing our weight around like a drunken elephant and kidnapping (or trying to — we’ll see what the Swiss courts say) people from abroad.

[njtosd]

[quote=spdrun] Things like this make me ashamed to be an American.

[/quote]

We’re ashamed that you’re an American, too. Why haven’t you left yet? As I recall you have dual citizenship – you should go wherever that other country is.

[FlyerInHi]

Well, we are puritans.

You know, German companies payoff foreign executives routinely for contracts. That’s why German small and mid-size companies do well in the export market. Mostly because they have good products, but cutting though the red tape helps them get contracts.

I hear that German and Chinese business people hire prostitutes to help relax contract negotiations. Normal part of business.

[spdrun]

Screw Puritanism, and screw our imposing it on the rest of the world. The world would have been a better place if the Mayflower had been smashed on Plymouth Rock and turned into a seagull buffet.

That’s one of the many advantages of San Diego — there’s a whole country 25 miles away that’s not run on a Puritan basis.

[Coronita]

What I’m so surprised, is that American officials made such a big deal about this….Afterall, it’s just soccer. It’s not like it’s the NFL or NBA! Do people even watch soccer here? 🙂

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