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FlyerInHi.
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September 12, 2014 at 10:49 AM #777979September 12, 2014 at 11:06 AM #777980
FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=flu] I originally posted something about Buffett,
“Rich people should pay more taxes…Everyone but me…”—Warren Buffett because it was related to his hypocrisy wrto to Burger King….[/quote]
I don’t see the hypocrisy. Buffet is running a business, and he wants the business to pay the least tax under law.
His advocacy is not about individual behavior, but public policy.
Another person you might take exception with is George Soros. But he does a lot of good funding causes supporting European peace and unity which further enhances world peace and prosperity.
September 12, 2014 at 12:40 PM #777981bearishgurl
ParticipantI think some of you ought to give Brian a break. I don’t see anyone else here stating that they’re volunteering at homeless/domestic violence shelters, etc. Or even contributing money to any.
Brian seems like the only one here sticking his neck out to keep this thread going. He’s entitled to his opinions and so is everyone else.
He’s absolutely right that the “rich” have left huge legacies all over America. In this state, we only have to look to the CSU campuses, the UC campuses, hospitals, large non-profit organizations such as scouting and locally, museums, Father Joe’s and the blood bank, etc, to see what the “rich” have been up to. I for one have seen, touched and heard many of the legacies they (and their organizations) have left behind to use and enjoy and greatly appreciate their contributions to society.
It is perfectly acceptable to me that the “rich” are best serving the poor by doing what they do best . . . that is, setting up charitable foundations and fund raising. If those activities involve regularly hosting $300+ plate black-tie events . . . so be it. I don’t care if the “rich” ever get their “hands dirty.” I appreciate all they have done and are doing for this county and state.
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Back to Ferguson … the young people there don’t have the same opportunities that similarly-situated young people have in CA. Nor do they have regular and constant supplies of a wide variety of reasonably-priced fresh fruit and vegetables at their disposal like we in Cali do. Their CC’s (“junior colleges”) cost more money to attend for in-state students than CC’s in CA do and the few public university campuses in MO cost just as much or more to attend for an in-state resident in a state where the median household income is much less than that of 90% of the household incomes in CA’s locales.
For those many Piggs who have never seen first-hand the actual living conditions of the majority of residents of suburban, semi-rural or rural “flyover country” of the US, I’m here to tell you that you cannot compare your life here in CA (and your kid’s lives and the opportunities afforded them here) to the opportunities (or lack thereof) which exist locally for the vast majority of Ferguson families. We in Cali don’t have rust residue and/or sediment coming out of our taps and by necessity need to install water filters and change them often (an addt’l expense for poor families). Yes, we are all Americans but the lifestyles in each contrasting locale (no matter what the income level) are night and day.
I’m not making excuses for any of the players in this saga. I’m just saying that each of those players is coming from a different set of values and a different “playing field” which longtime Cali residents might have a difficult time understanding.
Which leads me back to Cali’s ENDLESS supply of “rich” benefactors who do so much good work for this great state. Yes, flyover states have their benefactors to public works and public causes as well, but there are nowhere near as many of them in those states as there are here.
And scaredy, I do not think a similar situation could happen here because, as you know, there is too much political pressure and constant legal pressure on CA law enforcement agencies to open up their records and deal with the affected employees swiftly while they (and their layered labor relations oversight agencies) conduct separate investigations.
Ya’ll should all be thankful for the opportunities and infrastructure afforded you and your families as CA residents and for the fact that you aren’t “trapped” in your mobility. It is highly likely that many (most?) Ferguson residents (young and old alike) can see no way out and so won’t even dare to dream about leaving.
September 12, 2014 at 2:34 PM #777982ParticipantMcCluer South Berkeley High serves five towns, including Ferguson.
http://www.edline.net/pages/McCluer_South-Berkeley_High
Although its teaching staff appears to be highly qualified (with avg tenure of 11.9 yrs – much less than CA teachers) I don’t see any indication anywhere on its website that it offers any Advanced Placement classes. The Ferguson teachers make more than state public school teachers overall (57.2% have Masters degrees) undoubtedly because the school lies in an “underserved” area. It appears the Ferguson teachers are doing great things with this (lower-income) population of students!
A few stats on McCluer South-Berkeley High (9-12):
-Dropout rate 7% (state rate 11.5%)
-Black dropout rate .9% (state rate 9.6%)
-Avg composite ACT score: 16.4 (= 1135 SAT score, incl writing). State avg ACT score is 20.6 (= 1496 SAT).
-75.6% students qualified for free/reduced lunch (state avg 47.2%)
-Avg annual teacher salary $51,890 (state avg $39,331)http://www.city-data.com/school/mccluer-south-berkeley-high-mo.html#
In spite of these students’ daily hardships (incl the majority no doubt having to be bussed in from other towns), the dropout rate is really, really low for this HS serving a wide (semi-rural?) area. This speaks volumes on how dedicated its staff is.
Here are some links of successful students from the school’s web page:
Made possible by “rich” benefactor Master Card in partnership with local agencies:
http://www.fergflor.org/pages/Ferguson-Florissant_SD/News/McCluer_South-Berkeley_s_Jorda
Made possible by the nonprofit organization, “DECA,” serving HS’s worldwide for 60+ years:
Local football hero accepted football scholarship from small William Jewell College in Liberty, MO:
Made possible by St. Charles County Arts Council along with a local art gallery:
There IS money (both federal and private) being thrown at this school and it seems to be working as evidenced by its stats (in relation to state stats, overall).
I personally have a few nephews who went to (rural) HS’s situated on K-12 campuses which served a wide attendance area in “flyover country.” Only two are left in college now (the others graduated). The two that got into “top” colleges did so with ~one year of credits upon their HS graduation by taking a bus to/from a “junior college” in another town in the afternoons of their junior and senior years to obtain college credit, so their parents wouldn’t have to help them with housing expense for four years at university. Why? Because they had 0-2 AP offerings at their schools!
I believe it is fundamentally unfair to penalize a college applicant without AP credits over one who has them when they both have the same or similar GPA, due to the first applicant having little to no AP classes available to him/her.
Apparently, many universities in flyover country agree with me.
We are fortunate here in SD County in that our HS’s are geographically close to one another, almost all have AP offerings and parents/students have “choice” in the form of zone and interdistrict transfers. This is NOT the case in most parts of “flyover country.”
September 12, 2014 at 3:10 PM #777983GuestBG, I believe that some people who don’t have a social conscience think that in order to become rich, you have to be selfish.
So they infer that progressive philanthropists must be fake who only pretend to care, because behind it all they have something to gain.
Those critics may be right on the selfish part as far as individual wealth-accumulating decisions are concerned. But when it comes to public policy for everybody, what’s best for the individual is not necessarily true for the whole (fallacy of composition). Progressive, intellectually honest people such as Warren Buffet and Bill Gates who happen to be filthy rich recognize that.
The same critics know that in order to affect change, you have to bend the establishment using different types of resources. Without resources you cannot affect change so you end up with the status quo.
September 12, 2014 at 3:26 PM #777984ParticipantI forgot to add that the incidence of severe asthma among children is very, very high in this region of the country. Why? A large portion of these kids’ older relatives are addicted to tobacco in all its forms and refuse to quit. Due to weather and culture, people smoke inside their homes and vehicles. Due to local custom and law, smoking is allowed inside truck stops, restaurants and some workplaces.
It is not uncommon to see a large face-shaped inhaler out in the open in a home where kids live. I myself travel to “flyover country” with a countertop air-cleaning machine to plug in and put a towel under the door as soon as I arrive at certain relatives’ homes so I can successfully stay in their guest room. I’ve gotten nauseated from breathing heavy cig smoke just from having to wait in line to pay for my gas inside truck stops (if the pump wasn’t taking CC’s). I’ve also had to leave laundries and wait outside or in my car in 95-degree humidity while my clothes were washing/drying due to (legal) smoking in there.
All in all, Ferguson kids (a good example and representative of their region) likely have a very different life that your kids here in Cali do, through no fault of their own.
September 12, 2014 at 10:36 PM #777990NotCranky
ParticipantThe school Mike Brown went to is Normandy .
Lots of stories linked in the right margin of that page about the school the school board , rebuttals etc.
It’s true that this is a horrible school but much worse than it has to be for ANY reason…but mostly because the students are not even public high school material. They weren’t grade school material either. Where I have seen that with any race of kid it’s usually the parents behind it. When it hits critical mass education is pretty much hopeless at any expense.
I understand the food desert to a degree. But to what degree are people really trying to do something constructive about it? Grow vegetables , buy in bulk, lentils, beans, rice, potatoes, large bags of carrots, these things are a lot cheaper than fast food and easy to cook . There are liquor stores on every corner because local money will buy that. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were an alcohol desert?
There is plenty of food in ethnic immigrant areas of San Diego who actually buy ingredients and cook them .. I bet on average , .those people don’t have more money per person than other Americans who are all about the food desert.
These ethnic population in San Diego, are they going to be criminal and uneducated until the police force reflects their numbers. No they don’t do that.
You have to learn to do poor right first or you will never be equipped to struggle for better for your kids or teach them to live better. You need the liberty to bring your lineage forward but nobody can do it for you….that would be like the drug addict who wins the lottery and is broke or overdoses in no time.
America in the last few decades have really wanted to see the African American come up. Lots of help has been there. The biggest problem the phony progressives, phony civil rights people. They tell too many lies, spread blame out irresponsibly, and have too many people waiting for some never going to come day, when magically, poor people are all middle class or better and it great jobs. When you were never better than grade school material how are you going to get a pretty nice job?
Brian did his part , he voted for the phony progressive liberal in the white house now.
September 13, 2014 at 6:55 AM #777994scaredyclassic
Participanti think the new show Black Jesus speaks to some of these issues.
September 13, 2014 at 9:30 AM #777997Guest[quote=Blogstar] the phony progressive liberal in the white house now.[/quote]
And the alternative was?
I don’t know why Obama is such a salient part of your thinking concerning Ferguson.
You’re seeing conspiracy and “fakeness” that aren’t there. Don’t you think that sometimes people do what is right?
You claim that the Justice Department’s investigation of Ferguson was a politically motivated by Obama. DOJ is a big department. They do many things without any political motivations. Maybe some speeches were political, but an investigation is needed.
The results of a DOJ settlement will likely cause Ferguson to implement better hiring policies, improve community outreach, collect more data so we can analyze the situation better. All for good!
September 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM #777998Guest[quote=Blogstar] Where I have seen that with any race of kid it’s usually the parents behind it. When it hits critical mass education is pretty much hopeless at any expense.[/quote]
[quote=Blogstar]
When you were never better than grade school material how are you going to get a pretty nice job?
[/quote]You pretty much said that the parents are hopeless so the kids are hopeless.
Progressive social programs are “phony” in your opinion. So what is the alternative and what do we do with the kids already born? Those same kids will eventually grow up and have more kids.
What are the “real” answers? You’re the one casting blame but won’t suggest solutions.
September 13, 2014 at 9:51 AM #778000Guest[quote=Blogstar]
I understand the food desert to a degree. But to what degree are people really trying to do something constructive about it? Grow vegetables , buy in bulk, lentils, beans, rice, potatoes, large bags of carrots, these things are a lot cheaper than fast food and easy to cook . There are liquor stores on every corner because local money will buy that. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were an alcohol desert?
[/quote]Sounds pretty much what I would say.
I would add that there should be public education campaigns to encourage people to eat better. But that would be phony and hateful of real people’s lifestyles. So in the mean time, they keep on breeding… No sex education allowed either.
September 13, 2014 at 10:37 AM #778001
CoronitaParticipant[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, I believe that some people who don’t have a social conscience think that in order to become rich, you have to be selfish.
[/quote]…Then again, of course there are those that *think* they have a strong social conscience..,,and even try to *talk* like they have a strong social conscience….but then again, if you scratch just a little below the surface, it’s really easy to tell that they are really just fake and selective (arrogant at best, hypocritical at worst)….
Really socially conscience people, for instance, don’t spend most of their time trying to convince other people how much more they should be doing…They spend more time actually doing….
Really socially conscience people, also, for instance, aren’t as judgemental on say…”fat” people…
Really socially conscience people, also, for instance, aren’t so judgemental on say… people who have religious principles, since obviously not *every* religious person is a nut job….
And finally, really socially conscience people don’t tend to gravitate towards psuedo-sexist/misogynist viewpoints…
I find it funny that some of the folks that claim to be the most open-minded people and spend most of their time trying to convince people how open-minded they are and how others should be exactly as open-minded as they are….. are the same ones that tend to be the most judgmental and hypocritical..Afterall, most people who really are so, don’t spend so much time telling others how awesomely open minded they themselves are….
…Just saying….Carry on!
September 13, 2014 at 12:04 PM #778002ParticipantThere wasn’t an alternative Brian because the Democrats didn’t bring one and don’t want to bring one.
You didn’t expect the republicans to bring it did you?September 13, 2014 at 12:15 PM #778003Guestflu, it all depends on the context.
You implied Warren Buffet is a phony because he supports higher tax policies but he himself takes steps to minimize his own taxes. I think he’s very genuine and smart.
In your own private life, you can be selective. I wouldn’t date an unhealthy, uneducated woman from a bad family because I don’t want such person, and everything else that goes along, part of my life.
But I support health education and health care for the benefit of the population in general. How is that hypocrisy?
Again, what’s right for 1 person is often not good public policy. So it depends on the context.
Thinking and talking good, is better than thinking bad. What you say affect how your friends and family think, and so on. Attitudes and culture shift slowly.
September 13, 2014 at 12:24 PM #778004Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]flu, it all depends on the context.
You implied Warren Buffet is a phony because he supports higher tax policies but he himself takes steps to minimize his own taxes. I think he’s very genuine and smart.
In your own private life, you can be selective. I wouldn’t date an unhealthy, uneducated woman from a bad family because I don’t want such person, and everything else that goes along, part of my life.
But I support health education and health care for the benefit of the population in general. How is that hypocrisy?
Again, what’s right for 1 person is often not good public policy. So it depends on the context.
Thinking and talking good, is better than thinking bad. What you say affect how your friends and family think, and so on. Attitudes and culture shift slowly.[/quote]
Being inept and fake is bad when you have real problems, that’s not the way to shift attitudes and culture, it is a way of entrenching the problems! It’s working really well at that. -
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