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scaredyclassic.
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October 16, 2011 at 9:17 AM #730784October 16, 2011 at 9:41 AM #730786
scaredyclassic
ParticipantThat would spell the end of the academic world as we know it
October 16, 2011 at 9:50 AM #730788NotCranky
Participant[quote=walterwhite]That would spell the end of the academic world as we know it[/quote]
I like it when I have good ideas.October 16, 2011 at 3:08 PM #730794an
Participant[quote=walterwhite]That would spell the end of the academic world as we know it[/quote]
You mean the academic world where students goes into deep debt to get an education? Wouldn’t it be a good thing if this spell the end of that academic world?October 16, 2011 at 5:20 PM #730795zk
Participant[quote=AN]Mark Cuban have a good solution to the student loan and high cost of college education problem. He propose limiting student loan to $2k/year. The worse a student can do with this applied is $8k in debt for 4 year degree.[/quote]
[quote=Jacarandoso]How about letting students use debt to finish a semester, or maybe a year, but they have to pay it back before starting the next one?[/quote]
How are these good ideas? The whole purpose of student loans is to allow a person who can’t afford to pay cash for their education to get an education, and to then get a job that enables them to afford to pay for college. If you can only borrow 2k/year, you can’t get an education. If you have to pay back your loan each semester, you’re trying to pay back your student loan on a burger-flipping salary.
Sure, the system is screwed up right now. But just saying, “if you can’t pay cash for college, you’re screwed” is certainly not the fix. And both of the above ideas are basically saying that.
October 16, 2011 at 6:12 PM #730796bearishgurl
Participant[quote=zk][quote=AN]Mark Cuban have a good solution to the student loan and high cost of college education problem. He propose limiting student loan to $2k/year. The worse a student can do with this applied is $8k in debt for 4 year degree.[/quote]
[quote=Jacarandoso]How about letting students use debt to finish a semester, or maybe a year, but they have to pay it back before starting the next one?[/quote]
How are these good ideas? The whole purpose of student loans is to allow a person who can’t afford to pay cash for their education to get an education, and to then get a job that enables them to afford to pay for college. If you can only borrow 2k/year, you can’t get an education. If you have to pay back your loan each semester, you’re trying to pay back your student loan on a burger-flipping salary.
Sure, the system is screwed up right now. But just saying, “if you can’t pay cash for college, you’re screwed” is certainly not the fix. And both of the above ideas are basically saying that.[/quote]
Nationally, the maximum “Perkins Loan” in the 70’s was about $4400 yr and the maximum “BEOG Grant” was about $2000 yr. MANY HS GRADS did not attend college at that time because they could not afford it. In my case, my parents made $900 year too much for me to qualify for “aid.” (Believe it or not, I still have my [now brittle, lol] “FAFSA” where I was turned down for aid.) I ended up working FT after HS and paid my way thru three semesters of college and then quit (too hard, too many people majoring in what I wanted to major in and too few jobs avail in that field). (This was in CO where college [for residents] cost MUCH MORE than CA at the time.)
Those who could not afford to go college back then typically did not. Only about 17% of HS grads went on to college back then. The rest got married and began families right away and/or began working FT.
I don’t consider college a “right.” I consider it a “privilege.”
edit: btw, I scored a “30” on my ACT exam. 🙂
October 16, 2011 at 7:01 PM #730799Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk][quote=AN]Mark Cuban have a good solution to the student loan and high cost of college education problem. He propose limiting student loan to $2k/year. The worse a student can do with this applied is $8k in debt for 4 year degree.[/quote]
[quote=Jacarandoso]How about letting students use debt to finish a semester, or maybe a year, but they have to pay it back before starting the next one?[/quote]
How are these good ideas? The whole purpose of student loans is to allow a person who can’t afford to pay cash for their education to get an education, and to then get a job that enables them to afford to pay for college. If you can only borrow 2k/year, you can’t get an education. If you have to pay back your loan each semester, you’re trying to pay back your student loan on a burger-flipping salary.
Sure, the system is screwed up right now. But just saying, “if you can’t pay cash for college, you’re screwed” is certainly not the fix. And both of the above ideas are basically saying that.[/quote]
Nationally, the maximum “Perkins Loan” in the 70’s was about $4400 yr and the maximum “BEOG Grant” was about $2000 yr. MANY HS GRADS did not attend college at that time because they could not afford it. In my case, my parents made $900 year too much for me to qualify for “aid.” (Believe it or not, I still have my [now brittle, lol] “FAFSA” where I was turned down for aid.) I ended up working FT after HS and paid my way thru three semesters of college and then quit (too hard, too many people majoring in what I wanted to major in and too few jobs avail in that field). (This was in CO where college [for residents] cost MUCH MORE than CA at the time.)
Those who could not afford to go college back then typically did not. Only about 17% of HS grads went on to college back then. The rest got married and began families right away and/or began working FT.
I don’t consider college a “right.” I consider it a “privilege.”
edit: btw, I scored a “30” on my ACT exam. :)[/quote]
I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.October 16, 2011 at 7:37 PM #730800Participant[quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?
October 16, 2011 at 10:11 PM #730804CDMA ENG
Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?[/quote]
Well… It seems to buy the following:
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Default.aspx?PageID=feesched.html
Which is a tough pill to swallow…
CE
October 17, 2011 at 7:22 AM #730811Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?[/quote]
If it was earlier than that, then it would be more than $18,527 in 2011 dollars. And $18,527, according to the link provided by CDMA ENG, will pay for 2 semesters of tuition and fees at Berkeley (for an in-state student), leaving $4066 for books and other expenses.
October 17, 2011 at 9:58 AM #730819Participant[quote=zk][quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?[/quote]
If it was earlier than that, then it would be more than $18,527 in 2011 dollars. And $18,527, according to the link provided by CDMA ENG, will pay for 2 semesters of tuition and fees at Berkeley (for an in-state student), leaving $4066 for books and other expenses.[/quote]
So, does $14,461 tuition/fee costs apply to the entire UC system (for 3 quarters)? Why does a UC undergrad student need a loan for more than say, $16K yr then (to include new and used books)? And why does a student who is lucky enough to get admitted to UC need to borrow living expenses? That seems to be what is getting them in trouble (typical student has loans totaling over $60K for a Bachelor’s degree). Why not work and/or attend a UC campus close to home?? Lots of (smart) students do this.
Many CA public university students seem to be borrowing more than they need for tuition/fees/books so the residual not used by the school will be returned to them (or their parents) and used for “living expenses.” We all know that a “social life” (depending on where the campus is located) has varying costs if the student goes out every weekend. While in school, these students aren’t even thinking about what this debt will do to their lifestyles after they graduate.
edit: zk, this country wasn’t competing in a “global economy” circa 1975. Jobs were plentiful for every American, even HS dropouts, but especially those who could read, write, type and spell English flawlessly. At that time, a young person could even quit if they didn’t like a job and have another one waiting in the wings without even a missed day of work 🙂
October 17, 2011 at 10:25 AM #730820Participant[quote=CDMA ENG]Well… It seems to buy the following:
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Default.aspx?PageID=feesched.html
Which is a tough pill to swallow…
CE[/quote]
Well, CE, not sure what you are implying here but FWIW, I was not a resident of CA at the time. I don’t know what UC tuition/fees were in that era but IIRC, SDSU (recently renamed from SD State College) was about $114-143 semester + fees (about $168 semester incl pkg). CA CC’s were “free.”
My 30 ACT score got me admitted to CU (Boulder, CO), which, IIRC, was about $850 – $900 tuition per semester + fees and books at the time. I had a FT job and lived over 40 miles from it and would have had to drive there in the snow on 2-lane roads. Even back then, living in Boulder was very expensive (and still is). There’s no way $4400 would have covered a year there (perhaps a $4400 loan + an annual “BEOG” grant of $2000 may have, if I qualified for it).
Yes, I could have worked and lived in Boulder but I doubt any job offered me would have been F/T or paid more than min wage. I made MUCH more $$ living in Denver.
When I later moved back to CA, I got a F/T job immediately and was no longer interested in attending college. In any case, I was ineligible for “resident-student tuition” for the first year.
Even as much as 15 years after HS graduation, I had MANY HS friends who I wrote and/or visited periodically who were not as well off as me or established in their own right (owned their own homes, etc) due to leaving the work world to attend college for several years. And many had student loans to pay off (although not as large as today’s loans). I wouldn’t have been able to swing buying my first property at such a young age if I had had student loans to pay off!
I concede that those days are long gone and that a college degree is now the new HS diploma (in employers’ eyes). It’s very sad that a college degree costs so much. I also think most employers are short-sighted in hiring a young, inexperienced college grad over an experienced HS grad or “Certificate” candidate. Most employers today automatically think the “college grad” candidate will be the better employee but nothing could be further from the truth. A candidate who will be “up and running” on the first day of work due to work experience and superior basic skills (which most college grads don’t have) is the better candidate.
I’m speaking of non-technical jobs here … in the business sector.
October 17, 2011 at 11:43 AM #730826UCGal
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]
Well, CE, not sure what you are implying here but FWIW, I was not a resident of CA at the time. I don’t know what UC tuition/fees were in that era but IIRC, SDSU (recently renamed from SD State College) was about $114-143 semester + fees (about $168 semester incl pkg). CA CC’s were “free.”
[/quote]
I went to SDSU in the mid early/mid 80’s. It was SDSU even back then. And had been for a while.At the time I started registration and fees for in-state students was approx. $350/semester. Books were another $100. By the time I left it had gone up to $550/semester, and books had doubled.
It’s up to $3289 for registration and fees for in-state students, per semester. And the sdsu.edu website claims it’s about $800/semester for books. That seems pretty steep to me.
October 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM #730828Participant[quote=UCGal]I went to SDSU in the mid early/mid 80’s. It was SDSU even back then. And had been for a while.
At the time I started registration and fees for in-state students was approx. $350/semester. Books were another $100. By the time I left it had gone up to $550/semester, and books had doubled.
It’s up to $3289 for registration and fees for in-state students, per semester. And the sdsu.edu website claims it’s about $800/semester for books. That seems pretty steep to me.[/quote]
I understand that, UCGal. It IS pretty steep, considering that in the current CSU system, today’s undergrad is not guaranteed to be accepted into their major program of choice (due to impaction) and is not guaranteed to finish their +/- 128 semester credits (required for a Bachelor’s degree) in 4 years. Due to this problem, CC for two years is making more and more sense. At least a student will leave CC with an Associate Degree if they are turned down for their preferred major program at their preferred CSU campus(es). It’s okay to take a year or two off, work F/T and keep reapplying, rather than waste time and $$ majoring in something you’re really not that interested in. This is all the more reason to obtain a “marketable” Associate Degree at a CC, even if using it as a stepping stone to UC and CSU admission. Those skills will serve you well in ANY county you live in while pursuing study in your major without taking out student loans.
The above post was referring to the early-mid seventies era. CA colleges are only now surpassing other states in cost of tuition and fees.
In the Univ of Colo (Boulder, CO campus) School of Business, the in-state undergrad tuition and fees are now $13,788 yr (on par w/UC system). However, it is on a semester system while UC is on a quarter system.
see: http://www.colorado.edu/pba/budget/tuitionfees/tuitfee.HTML
However, “back in the day,” the CSU and UC systems in CA had the cheapest (resident) tuition/fees in the nation.
I DO believe this GREAT GIVEAWAY for residents really DID benefit CA’s human resources and encourage biz to relocate here over the last 50 or so years. However, this “party” has been over for at least 7 years now and CA univ tuition/fees are exploding thru the stratosphere.
October 17, 2011 at 12:43 PM #730832Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk][quote=bearishgurl][quote=zk]I’m not sure I get your point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you agree with “if you can’t afford to pay for college without a loan, you’re screwed.”
If you want this country to be even less competitive in the global economy than it already is, then that’s a good place to start.
btw, according to http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$4400 in 1975 dollars is $18,527 in 2011 dollars.[/quote]Well, it was earlier than that, but tell us, what will $18,527 yr buy today? Let’s start with CA, shall we?[/quote]
If it was earlier than that, then it would be more than $18,527 in 2011 dollars. And $18,527, according to the link provided by CDMA ENG, will pay for 2 semesters of tuition and fees at Berkeley (for an in-state student), leaving $4066 for books and other expenses.[/quote]
So, does $14,461 tuition/fee costs apply to the entire UC system (for 3 quarters)? Why does a UC undergrad student need a loan for more than say, $16K yr then (to include new and used books)? And why does a student who is lucky enough to get admitted to UC need to borrow living expenses? That seems to be what is getting them in trouble (typical student has loans totaling over $60K for a Bachelor’s degree). Why not work and/or attend a UC campus close to home?? Lots of (smart) students do this.
Many CA public university students seem to be borrowing more than they need for tuition/fees/books so the residual not used by the school will be returned to them (or their parents) and used for “living expenses.” We all know that a “social life” (depending on where the campus is located) has varying costs if the student goes out every weekend. While in school, these students aren’t even thinking about what this debt will do to their lifestyles after they graduate.
edit: zk, this country wasn’t competing in a “global economy” circa 1975. Jobs were plentiful for every American, even HS dropouts, but especially those who could read, write, type and spell English flawlessly. At that time, a young person could even quit if they didn’t like a job and have another one waiting in the wings without even a missed day of work :)[/quote]
My point is that potential college students should be able to borrow enough to go to college, that they should be able to pay it off after college, and that they shouldn’t have to pay usurious rates. If you disagree with that, and I’m not sure whether you do, then why?
If they borrow more than they need, that’s their own fault. But if they can’t borrow as much as they need, then that’s not going to be good for the country.
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