ot. drought

[no_such_reality]

[spdrun]

It’s not just about cost. Environmental factors matter, and I also think that having the most diverse sources of energy creates the most flexible system. If one resource becomes more scarce or the supply is disrupted for some reason, we’re not as vulnerable.

Also, we’re not running out of sun for the next few billion years, and if/when we do, we won’t have to worry about energy sources 😀

[FlyerInHi]

Plus using renewable resources allow us to save carbon fuels for future uses or other applications such as military and aviation.

[spdrun]

Plus using renewable resources allow us to save carbon fuels for future uses or other applications such as military and aviation.

That too, and petrochemical uses. Actually, petrochemicals even more, since you can run jet turbines on hydrogen made through electrolysis.

[ucodegen]

[quote=no_such_reality]According to US Department of Energy, Solar is 60% more expensive in total than coal. 40% more expensive than advanced coal cleaning technologies and more than DOUBLE the total cost of Natural Gas in a conventional plant. And these aren’t dirty plants, these are plants going into production in 2018, so they have the current environmental cleaning factors.

The report is Levelized Cost in New Energy Production

So, new advanced combined cycle natural gas plants produce for 6.6 cents/KwH, and Solar production with photo-cells comes in at $14.4 cents/KwH[/quote]True for solar if centralized generation, not true if decentralized. Decentralized generation removes the electrical transportation costs including line loss and line maintenance. The line loss is actually quite significant. Go under any high power line, near the towers and you will hear a lot of ‘crackling’. That is actually an electrical arc, which translates into wasted energy. I am not even considering EM coupling with the ground and the losses incurred there. In some cases, you can take a long florescent tube and hold it while under power lines and it may glow (depends upon the voltage and current in the line).

http://hacknmod.com/hack/field-of-fluorescent-tubes-powered-by-ambient-current/

http://www.doobybrain.com/2008/02/03/electromagnetic-fields-cause-fluorescent-bulbs-to-glow/

What is interesting is that the tubes are pointing vertical, using earth as ground while the actual generated magnetic fields on high power lines are radial about the line. Looks like he is only using the E-field.

BTW it takes a lot of voltage to ‘ignite’ a florescent. My recollection is that you are looking at around 3000 volts.

Imagine all this electrical leakage over the distance that these power lines run (ie Hoover Dam to Los Angeles).

Having solar arrays on the roof also reduce the heat transfer into the attic, and thereby your cooling costs during the summer.

[an]

http://www.dailytech.com/Largest+Solar+Thermal+Plant+Ivanpah+Goes+Live+Commercially/article34333.htm
This can power 140k homes and takes up 5 square miles. So, just to power San Diego city alone, you’d need 50 square miles. This project costs $2.2B and it costs 2.6x to generate power as a coal power plant. I’m not sure you’d have enough dessert land to produce power for everyone. Then there are the birds that will die and the animals that have their habitat wiped out. Yeah, this sounds very feasible.

[FlyerInHi]

I think we can do whole lot In the area of conservation.

I myself use 1/2 the energy I used 10 years ago thanks to new appliances and LED lighting. I cringe whenever I see energy hogs such halogen or incandescent.

I thought that 1.6 or 1.2 gallon toilet was mandatory upon transfer in San Diego. I didn’t care because i remodeled but there was no mention when I bought that condo. I found that American Standard or Kohler low flow toilets are the best. True that the old low flow were not good so you ended up flushing twice, but 1.6 gallons x 2 is still less than 5 gallons.

[spdrun]

AN: The Mojave Desert is about 50,000 square miles.

Say you need 50 square miles for 1.5 million people. You’d need about 1500 square miles to power the entire state of CA by your calculation, which is 3% of the area of the desert or 1% that of the entire state of California.

Actually, for homes alone, your calculation is a bit off base, since average household size is about 2.5 people, which translates to about 550-560k homes in San Diego. But with industrial use and the metro area, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You’re also not talking rooftops into account. 40 million people / 2.5 = 16 million homes at say 500 sf of roof area per person. I’m lowballing this to account for people living in multi-story apartment buildings, where the roof area is shared between multiple apartments in a line.

That’s 8 billion sf of roof area for residential alone in the state of California or 286 square miles. Probably double that if you count commercial and industrial spaces.

[UCGal]

[quote=svelte][quote=UCGal]San Diego county only gets 5% of its water from the California water project (aqueducts from Oroville). [/quote]

The aqueduct does not actually go to Oroville Dam.

It starts at the San Joaquin Delta, the Clifton Court Forebay actually.

You could argue that the water in the delta came from the water behind Oroville Dam, but at that point water from Oroville has been mixed with water from rivers as well.[/quote]

You are correct.

That’s where the twin tunnels come in… (Proposed and being supported by such disparate groups as the big ag farmers in the San Joaquin valley and the Sierra Club – two groups that have probably NEVER been on the same side before.)

[Zeitgeist]

Great comment. They continue to raise the price of water even though people have been conserving for years. Some of the local water districts have very nice retirements for board members thanks to the rate payers.

“At the Otay Water District, customer water rates have increased by more than 40 percent over the past two years, and are scheduled to increase again in January by 7.7 percent. But rather than making a show of good faith through the district’s own financial sacrifices alongside those of ratepayers, the general manager of the Otay Water District recently led the charge to enhance retirement benefits for management with extraordinary lifetime health care and dental benefits for management and dependents. Board members voted 4-1 to approve these lavish gains.”

Commentary: Otay Water District’s Actions Could Soak Its Ratepayers

[paramount]

[img_assist|nid=18604|title=Drought July 2014|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=466|height=449]

[Hatfield]

[quote=FlyerInHi]II found that American Standard or Kohler low flow toilets are the best. True that the old low flow were not good so you ended up flushing twice, but 1.6 gallons x 2 is still less than 5 gallons.[/quote]

Toto G-Max. One flush does the trick, every time.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=spdrun]^^^

We’re talking about an ideal world where it’s required in new developments. Perhaps power firms would also be required to accept power at reasonable rates in this universe.[/quote]

Hey – I know. Lets just require everyone to do everything you think they should do. That’d be awesome !

[spdrun]

Damn right it would be. Better than the oil and gas companies being allowed to rape the world’s environment non-stop. We require fire exits, smoke detectors, safe electrical systems, design for quake safety, etc. What would be wrong with requiring a system that safeguards grid capacity as well as safeguarding the environment in multiple ways?

[paramount]

[img_assist|nid=18652|title=Lake Shasta – July 2014|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=466|height=315]

[Author]

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