OT: Countdown: Three Weeks to Chaos

[Arraya]

And lets now forget the treasury gave us a 700 billion dollar ransom note and was given dictatorial powers. 22 countries are on varying *brinks* and I am sure many more under reassuring veils of PR. Iceland’s food shelves emptied, and bank accounts were seized in Argentina and Australia. The IMF is blackmailing the bankrupted countries and we have a full blown currency crisis throughout the world. Oh, we also started fighting in Pakistan and Syria.

Yeah, everything is fine. Look the DOW was up today.

[Arraya]

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ <---this guy is great for you engineering types.

A short PBS interview with Benoit Mandelbrot and my compatriot, Nassim Taleb, on the current financial/economic crisis.

It underlines my ongoing fear that this crisis will recast the world at a fundamental level. Why? Our simplistic, slow, and fractured 20th Century control system isn’t capable of stabilizing a financial/economic system of this complexity/speed/size once it becomes very turbulent. As a result, the global system will follow its own course, dictated by its hypercomplex internal dynamics and feedback loops, destroying everything that gets in its way. Otherwise known as Chaos;)

Like Nassim, I hope I’m wrong.

snip

One of the most interesting aspects of this crisis is that it is truly a global crisis. This is arguably a first. In historical crises, wars or catastrophes, there is always a large external environment of relative normalcy. Our first real global event will directly impact all economic activity from Botswana to Albany at a relatively granular level. It’s even more interesting since the impact of this event is occurring simultaneously in all places at once.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct08/credit10-08.html

Without commercial credit, trade grinds to a halt – whether in 1706 or
2008. Now as commercial credit has been severely impaired, global trade
and production are indeed threatened on many fronts. Contributor Harun I.
sent in this Bloomberg story about agricultural production being at risk of
declines due to the tightening of credit to farmers: “The credit crunch is
compounding a profit squeeze for farmers that may curb global harvests
and worsen a food crisis for developing countries. Global production of
wheat, the most-consumed food crop, may drop 4.4 percent next year,
said Dan Basse, president of AgResource Co. in Chicago, who has advised
farmers, food companies and investors for 29 years. Harvests of corn and
soybeans also are likely to fall, Basse said.” Here we see the “unintended
consequences” of the credit crisis. Commercial credit is the lifeblood of
capitalism, be it the Version1.0 of 1072 or V1.9 in 1706 or V2.11 in 2008.

Governors David A. Paterson of New York and Jon S. Corzine of New Jersey
added their voices Wednesday to the growing support for a second federal
economic stimulus package, saying state governments face devastating
cutbacks if they did not receive assistance soon. Appearing before
separate congressional committees, they said that their states, like many
others, had already moved to address budget deficits. Their actions alone
would not be enough, they said. Their remarks increased the pressure on
the federal government to include money for state governments in the
next round of economic stimulus legislation, pointedly putting the requests
of two of the nation’s most populous states on the [Cong

[Arraya]

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ <---this guy is great for you engineering types.

A short PBS interview with Benoit Mandelbrot and my compatriot, Nassim Taleb, on the current financial/economic crisis.

It underlines my ongoing fear that this crisis will recast the world at a fundamental level. Why? Our simplistic, slow, and fractured 20th Century control system isn’t capable of stabilizing a financial/economic system of this complexity/speed/size once it becomes very turbulent. As a result, the global system will follow its own course, dictated by its hypercomplex internal dynamics and feedback loops, destroying everything that gets in its way. Otherwise known as Chaos;)

Like Nassim, I hope I’m wrong.

snip

One of the most interesting aspects of this crisis is that it is truly a global crisis. This is arguably a first. In historical crises, wars or catastrophes, there is always a large external environment of relative normalcy. Our first real global event will directly impact all economic activity from Botswana to Albany at a relatively granular level. It’s even more interesting since the impact of this event is occurring simultaneously in all places at once.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct08/credit10-08.html

Without commercial credit, trade grinds to a halt – whether in 1706 or
2008. Now as commercial credit has been severely impaired, global trade
and production are indeed threatened on many fronts. Contributor Harun I.
sent in this Bloomberg story about agricultural production being at risk of
declines due to the tightening of credit to farmers: “The credit crunch is
compounding a profit squeeze for farmers that may curb global harvests
and worsen a food crisis for developing countries. Global production of
wheat, the most-consumed food crop, may drop 4.4 percent next year,
said Dan Basse, president of AgResource Co. in Chicago, who has advised
farmers, food companies and investors for 29 years. Harvests of corn and
soybeans also are likely to fall, Basse said.” Here we see the “unintended
consequences” of the credit crisis. Commercial credit is the lifeblood of
capitalism, be it the Version1.0 of 1072 or V1.9 in 1706 or V2.11 in 2008.

Governors David A. Paterson of New York and Jon S. Corzine of New Jersey
added their voices Wednesday to the growing support for a second federal
economic stimulus package, saying state governments face devastating
cutbacks if they did not receive assistance soon. Appearing before
separate congressional committees, they said that their states, like many
others, had already moved to address budget deficits. Their actions alone
would not be enough, they said. Their remarks increased the pressure on
the federal government to include money for state governments in the
next round of economic stimulus legislation, pointedly putting the requests
of two of the nation’s most populous states on the [Cong

[Arraya]

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ <---this guy is great for you engineering types.

A short PBS interview with Benoit Mandelbrot and my compatriot, Nassim Taleb, on the current financial/economic crisis.

It underlines my ongoing fear that this crisis will recast the world at a fundamental level. Why? Our simplistic, slow, and fractured 20th Century control system isn’t capable of stabilizing a financial/economic system of this complexity/speed/size once it becomes very turbulent. As a result, the global system will follow its own course, dictated by its hypercomplex internal dynamics and feedback loops, destroying everything that gets in its way. Otherwise known as Chaos;)

Like Nassim, I hope I’m wrong.

snip

One of the most interesting aspects of this crisis is that it is truly a global crisis. This is arguably a first. In historical crises, wars or catastrophes, there is always a large external environment of relative normalcy. Our first real global event will directly impact all economic activity from Botswana to Albany at a relatively granular level. It’s even more interesting since the impact of this event is occurring simultaneously in all places at once.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct08/credit10-08.html

Without commercial credit, trade grinds to a halt – whether in 1706 or
2008. Now as commercial credit has been severely impaired, global trade
and production are indeed threatened on many fronts. Contributor Harun I.
sent in this Bloomberg story about agricultural production being at risk of
declines due to the tightening of credit to farmers: “The credit crunch is
compounding a profit squeeze for farmers that may curb global harvests
and worsen a food crisis for developing countries. Global production of
wheat, the most-consumed food crop, may drop 4.4 percent next year,
said Dan Basse, president of AgResource Co. in Chicago, who has advised
farmers, food companies and investors for 29 years. Harvests of corn and
soybeans also are likely to fall, Basse said.” Here we see the “unintended
consequences” of the credit crisis. Commercial credit is the lifeblood of
capitalism, be it the Version1.0 of 1072 or V1.9 in 1706 or V2.11 in 2008.

Governors David A. Paterson of New York and Jon S. Corzine of New Jersey
added their voices Wednesday to the growing support for a second federal
economic stimulus package, saying state governments face devastating
cutbacks if they did not receive assistance soon. Appearing before
separate congressional committees, they said that their states, like many
others, had already moved to address budget deficits. Their actions alone
would not be enough, they said. Their remarks increased the pressure on
the federal government to include money for state governments in the
next round of economic stimulus legislation, pointedly putting the requests
of two of the nation’s most populous states on the [Cong

[Arraya]

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ <---this guy is great for you engineering types.

A short PBS interview with Benoit Mandelbrot and my compatriot, Nassim Taleb, on the current financial/economic crisis.

It underlines my ongoing fear that this crisis will recast the world at a fundamental level. Why? Our simplistic, slow, and fractured 20th Century control system isn’t capable of stabilizing a financial/economic system of this complexity/speed/size once it becomes very turbulent. As a result, the global system will follow its own course, dictated by its hypercomplex internal dynamics and feedback loops, destroying everything that gets in its way. Otherwise known as Chaos;)

Like Nassim, I hope I’m wrong.

snip

One of the most interesting aspects of this crisis is that it is truly a global crisis. This is arguably a first. In historical crises, wars or catastrophes, there is always a large external environment of relative normalcy. Our first real global event will directly impact all economic activity from Botswana to Albany at a relatively granular level. It’s even more interesting since the impact of this event is occurring simultaneously in all places at once.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct08/credit10-08.html

Without commercial credit, trade grinds to a halt – whether in 1706 or
2008. Now as commercial credit has been severely impaired, global trade
and production are indeed threatened on many fronts. Contributor Harun I.
sent in this Bloomberg story about agricultural production being at risk of
declines due to the tightening of credit to farmers: “The credit crunch is
compounding a profit squeeze for farmers that may curb global harvests
and worsen a food crisis for developing countries. Global production of
wheat, the most-consumed food crop, may drop 4.4 percent next year,
said Dan Basse, president of AgResource Co. in Chicago, who has advised
farmers, food companies and investors for 29 years. Harvests of corn and
soybeans also are likely to fall, Basse said.” Here we see the “unintended
consequences” of the credit crisis. Commercial credit is the lifeblood of
capitalism, be it the Version1.0 of 1072 or V1.9 in 1706 or V2.11 in 2008.

Governors David A. Paterson of New York and Jon S. Corzine of New Jersey
added their voices Wednesday to the growing support for a second federal
economic stimulus package, saying state governments face devastating
cutbacks if they did not receive assistance soon. Appearing before
separate congressional committees, they said that their states, like many
others, had already moved to address budget deficits. Their actions alone
would not be enough, they said. Their remarks increased the pressure on
the federal government to include money for state governments in the
next round of economic stimulus legislation, pointedly putting the requests
of two of the nation’s most populous states on the [Cong

[Arraya]

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ <---this guy is great for you engineering types.

A short PBS interview with Benoit Mandelbrot and my compatriot, Nassim Taleb, on the current financial/economic crisis.

It underlines my ongoing fear that this crisis will recast the world at a fundamental level. Why? Our simplistic, slow, and fractured 20th Century control system isn’t capable of stabilizing a financial/economic system of this complexity/speed/size once it becomes very turbulent. As a result, the global system will follow its own course, dictated by its hypercomplex internal dynamics and feedback loops, destroying everything that gets in its way. Otherwise known as Chaos;)

Like Nassim, I hope I’m wrong.

snip

One of the most interesting aspects of this crisis is that it is truly a global crisis. This is arguably a first. In historical crises, wars or catastrophes, there is always a large external environment of relative normalcy. Our first real global event will directly impact all economic activity from Botswana to Albany at a relatively granular level. It’s even more interesting since the impact of this event is occurring simultaneously in all places at once.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct08/credit10-08.html

Without commercial credit, trade grinds to a halt – whether in 1706 or
2008. Now as commercial credit has been severely impaired, global trade
and production are indeed threatened on many fronts. Contributor Harun I.
sent in this Bloomberg story about agricultural production being at risk of
declines due to the tightening of credit to farmers: “The credit crunch is
compounding a profit squeeze for farmers that may curb global harvests
and worsen a food crisis for developing countries. Global production of
wheat, the most-consumed food crop, may drop 4.4 percent next year,
said Dan Basse, president of AgResource Co. in Chicago, who has advised
farmers, food companies and investors for 29 years. Harvests of corn and
soybeans also are likely to fall, Basse said.” Here we see the “unintended
consequences” of the credit crisis. Commercial credit is the lifeblood of
capitalism, be it the Version1.0 of 1072 or V1.9 in 1706 or V2.11 in 2008.

Governors David A. Paterson of New York and Jon S. Corzine of New Jersey
added their voices Wednesday to the growing support for a second federal
economic stimulus package, saying state governments face devastating
cutbacks if they did not receive assistance soon. Appearing before
separate congressional committees, they said that their states, like many
others, had already moved to address budget deficits. Their actions alone
would not be enough, they said. Their remarks increased the pressure on
the federal government to include money for state governments in the
next round of economic stimulus legislation, pointedly putting the requests
of two of the nation’s most populous states on the [Cong

[NotCranky]

Arraya,Thanks for your answers I believe you. My oxygen mask is already on, figuratively speaking of course. Trust me I have just as many selfish impulses borne of fear of financial insecurity as anyone does. I posted what I did as much to challenge myself as anyone else.

Nost, I fear people and situations like you describe too. You would help them in a sensible way but they don’t want that, they want it all for nothing and don’t mind jacking people for it.

Partypup, Your last post actually describes my last several years experience with regards to this topic almost exactly. I got out of LA a lot earlier though.I knew four years ago that we would have the biggest recession of my lifetime. I am 47. I don’t think there is any reason to count or insist that anything worse than that is certain. Of course sporadically bad thngs will happen, they always do.

I have given a lot of the kinds or advice you have given.Of course most other people’s money behaviors are none of my business. Most of my friends are doing fine ,less so my family. Besides that I am not exactly rich so who am I to say. I am just a bit like the pig of the three pigs who built the brick house.

I have told people, because I don’t know rich people, not to buy houses since spring of 2003 and I have a sales license. I am currently representing my first buyer since then at almost 50% off from last sale,This is someone I convinced to sell at the peak and rent. I told a lot of people to stay out of the market who I will never see again.Oh well. I am considering getting business cards because I think there are good odds that the purchases will work out better as time goes on. I am not promising anyone anything though.

O.K the important part…
Now, let me ask you: how do YOU propose to be “useful” when TSHTF? 😉

I already have almost everything mentioned on this thread as would be useful in many bad scenarios. I have the land, water and sewer accomodations, productive beasts of burden, farm equipment, fuel, a generator, tons of equipment and the skills to make it all work. I wasn’t even in panic mode when I got it but I realized immediately how advantageous it could be to help people if this worst recession becomes a terrible depression or if there was a catastrophe in town how we could support strangers up here too. You know “head for the hills”.
On the other hand I am aware that if people get too rowdy it isn’t easy to get here and I think I could bother myself to cooperate with my neighbors to establish a ” peace keeping checkpoint”
If something happens in town and I can be of help, I’ll go down and do that. Respecting self preservation to some degree of course.

All that said. I don’t agree with the authority with which you speak regarding apparently relatively near term very broad “chaos” affecting Americans. Obviously I have questioned the value system that would lead you to classify most of the things as “chaos” that you have so far. Even if you are using them to demonstrate the shit is being piled up and the fan is being plugged in, I don’t agree that the result will be a meeting or the two resulting in extreme Chaos. If war between relative equals breaks out, I will change that tune a second.

On the other hand many people in the world are already living the worst case scenario we could imagine. It is frustrating to to me,seems undisciplined, to wallow in anticipation of possible loss of luxury.This always becomes a demand on our politicians to look around for solutions. Yes, you could challenge as to what I am doing with regard to that. So far not much. I speak out against our unjust contributions and I would gladly accept poverty to reduce them if it would help.I will not support Obama or Mccain. One dissapointment coming from this blog is that many people seem ready to classify the Iraq war as a success or failure based on how it affects our standard or living. I am pretty much against bailing ourselves out with other people’s blood.

What is your take on this last paragraph. I already know you don’t like Obama or McCain.

[NotCranky]

Arraya,Thanks for your answers I believe you. My oxygen mask is already on, figuratively speaking of course. Trust me I have just as many selfish impulses borne of fear of financial insecurity as anyone does. I posted what I did as much to challenge myself as anyone else.

Nost, I fear people and situations like you describe too. You would help them in a sensible way but they don’t want that, they want it all for nothing and don’t mind jacking people for it.

Partypup, Your last post actually describes my last several years experience with regards to this topic almost exactly. I got out of LA a lot earlier though.I knew four years ago that we would have the biggest recession of my lifetime. I am 47. I don’t think there is any reason to count or insist that anything worse than that is certain. Of course sporadically bad thngs will happen, they always do.

I have given a lot of the kinds or advice you have given.Of course most other people’s money behaviors are none of my business. Most of my friends are doing fine ,less so my family. Besides that I am not exactly rich so who am I to say. I am just a bit like the pig of the three pigs who built the brick house.

I have told people, because I don’t know rich people, not to buy houses since spring of 2003 and I have a sales license. I am currently representing my first buyer since then at almost 50% off from last sale,This is someone I convinced to sell at the peak and rent. I told a lot of people to stay out of the market who I will never see again.Oh well. I am considering getting business cards because I think there are good odds that the purchases will work out better as time goes on. I am not promising anyone anything though.

O.K the important part…
Now, let me ask you: how do YOU propose to be “useful” when TSHTF? 😉

I already have almost everything mentioned on this thread as would be useful in many bad scenarios. I have the land, water and sewer accomodations, productive beasts of burden, farm equipment, fuel, a generator, tons of equipment and the skills to make it all work. I wasn’t even in panic mode when I got it but I realized immediately how advantageous it could be to help people if this worst recession becomes a terrible depression or if there was a catastrophe in town how we could support strangers up here too. You know “head for the hills”.
On the other hand I am aware that if people get too rowdy it isn’t easy to get here and I think I could bother myself to cooperate with my neighbors to establish a ” peace keeping checkpoint”
If something happens in town and I can be of help, I’ll go down and do that. Respecting self preservation to some degree of course.

All that said. I don’t agree with the authority with which you speak regarding apparently relatively near term very broad “chaos” affecting Americans. Obviously I have questioned the value system that would lead you to classify most of the things as “chaos” that you have so far. Even if you are using them to demonstrate the shit is being piled up and the fan is being plugged in, I don’t agree that the result will be a meeting or the two resulting in extreme Chaos. If war between relative equals breaks out, I will change that tune a second.

On the other hand many people in the world are already living the worst case scenario we could imagine. It is frustrating to to me,seems undisciplined, to wallow in anticipation of possible loss of luxury.This always becomes a demand on our politicians to look around for solutions. Yes, you could challenge as to what I am doing with regard to that. So far not much. I speak out against our unjust contributions and I would gladly accept poverty to reduce them if it would help.I will not support Obama or Mccain. One dissapointment coming from this blog is that many people seem ready to classify the Iraq war as a success or failure based on how it affects our standard or living. I am pretty much against bailing ourselves out with other people’s blood.

What is your take on this last paragraph. I already know you don’t like Obama or McCain.

[NotCranky]

Arraya,Thanks for your answers I believe you. My oxygen mask is already on, figuratively speaking of course. Trust me I have just as many selfish impulses borne of fear of financial insecurity as anyone does. I posted what I did as much to challenge myself as anyone else.

Nost, I fear people and situations like you describe too. You would help them in a sensible way but they don’t want that, they want it all for nothing and don’t mind jacking people for it.

Partypup, Your last post actually describes my last several years experience with regards to this topic almost exactly. I got out of LA a lot earlier though.I knew four years ago that we would have the biggest recession of my lifetime. I am 47. I don’t think there is any reason to count or insist that anything worse than that is certain. Of course sporadically bad thngs will happen, they always do.

I have given a lot of the kinds or advice you have given.Of course most other people’s money behaviors are none of my business. Most of my friends are doing fine ,less so my family. Besides that I am not exactly rich so who am I to say. I am just a bit like the pig of the three pigs who built the brick house.

I have told people, because I don’t know rich people, not to buy houses since spring of 2003 and I have a sales license. I am currently representing my first buyer since then at almost 50% off from last sale,This is someone I convinced to sell at the peak and rent. I told a lot of people to stay out of the market who I will never see again.Oh well. I am considering getting business cards because I think there are good odds that the purchases will work out better as time goes on. I am not promising anyone anything though.

O.K the important part…
Now, let me ask you: how do YOU propose to be “useful” when TSHTF? 😉

I already have almost everything mentioned on this thread as would be useful in many bad scenarios. I have the land, water and sewer accomodations, productive beasts of burden, farm equipment, fuel, a generator, tons of equipment and the skills to make it all work. I wasn’t even in panic mode when I got it but I realized immediately how advantageous it could be to help people if this worst recession becomes a terrible depression or if there was a catastrophe in town how we could support strangers up here too. You know “head for the hills”.
On the other hand I am aware that if people get too rowdy it isn’t easy to get here and I think I could bother myself to cooperate with my neighbors to establish a ” peace keeping checkpoint”
If something happens in town and I can be of help, I’ll go down and do that. Respecting self preservation to some degree of course.

All that said. I don’t agree with the authority with which you speak regarding apparently relatively near term very broad “chaos” affecting Americans. Obviously I have questioned the value system that would lead you to classify most of the things as “chaos” that you have so far. Even if you are using them to demonstrate the shit is being piled up and the fan is being plugged in, I don’t agree that the result will be a meeting or the two resulting in extreme Chaos. If war between relative equals breaks out, I will change that tune a second.

On the other hand many people in the world are already living the worst case scenario we could imagine. It is frustrating to to me,seems undisciplined, to wallow in anticipation of possible loss of luxury.This always becomes a demand on our politicians to look around for solutions. Yes, you could challenge as to what I am doing with regard to that. So far not much. I speak out against our unjust contributions and I would gladly accept poverty to reduce them if it would help.I will not support Obama or Mccain. One dissapointment coming from this blog is that many people seem ready to classify the Iraq war as a success or failure based on how it affects our standard or living. I am pretty much against bailing ourselves out with other people’s blood.

What is your take on this last paragraph. I already know you don’t like Obama or McCain.

[NotCranky]

Arraya,Thanks for your answers I believe you. My oxygen mask is already on, figuratively speaking of course. Trust me I have just as many selfish impulses borne of fear of financial insecurity as anyone does. I posted what I did as much to challenge myself as anyone else.

Nost, I fear people and situations like you describe too. You would help them in a sensible way but they don’t want that, they want it all for nothing and don’t mind jacking people for it.

Partypup, Your last post actually describes my last several years experience with regards to this topic almost exactly. I got out of LA a lot earlier though.I knew four years ago that we would have the biggest recession of my lifetime. I am 47. I don’t think there is any reason to count or insist that anything worse than that is certain. Of course sporadically bad thngs will happen, they always do.

I have given a lot of the kinds or advice you have given.Of course most other people’s money behaviors are none of my business. Most of my friends are doing fine ,less so my family. Besides that I am not exactly rich so who am I to say. I am just a bit like the pig of the three pigs who built the brick house.

I have told people, because I don’t know rich people, not to buy houses since spring of 2003 and I have a sales license. I am currently representing my first buyer since then at almost 50% off from last sale,This is someone I convinced to sell at the peak and rent. I told a lot of people to stay out of the market who I will never see again.Oh well. I am considering getting business cards because I think there are good odds that the purchases will work out better as time goes on. I am not promising anyone anything though.

O.K the important part…
Now, let me ask you: how do YOU propose to be “useful” when TSHTF? 😉

I already have almost everything mentioned on this thread as would be useful in many bad scenarios. I have the land, water and sewer accomodations, productive beasts of burden, farm equipment, fuel, a generator, tons of equipment and the skills to make it all work. I wasn’t even in panic mode when I got it but I realized immediately how advantageous it could be to help people if this worst recession becomes a terrible depression or if there was a catastrophe in town how we could support strangers up here too. You know “head for the hills”.
On the other hand I am aware that if people get too rowdy it isn’t easy to get here and I think I could bother myself to cooperate with my neighbors to establish a ” peace keeping checkpoint”
If something happens in town and I can be of help, I’ll go down and do that. Respecting self preservation to some degree of course.

All that said. I don’t agree with the authority with which you speak regarding apparently relatively near term very broad “chaos” affecting Americans. Obviously I have questioned the value system that would lead you to classify most of the things as “chaos” that you have so far. Even if you are using them to demonstrate the shit is being piled up and the fan is being plugged in, I don’t agree that the result will be a meeting or the two resulting in extreme Chaos. If war between relative equals breaks out, I will change that tune a second.

On the other hand many people in the world are already living the worst case scenario we could imagine. It is frustrating to to me,seems undisciplined, to wallow in anticipation of possible loss of luxury.This always becomes a demand on our politicians to look around for solutions. Yes, you could challenge as to what I am doing with regard to that. So far not much. I speak out against our unjust contributions and I would gladly accept poverty to reduce them if it would help.I will not support Obama or Mccain. One dissapointment coming from this blog is that many people seem ready to classify the Iraq war as a success or failure based on how it affects our standard or living. I am pretty much against bailing ourselves out with other people’s blood.

What is your take on this last paragraph. I already know you don’t like Obama or McCain.

[NotCranky]

Arraya,Thanks for your answers I believe you. My oxygen mask is already on, figuratively speaking of course. Trust me I have just as many selfish impulses borne of fear of financial insecurity as anyone does. I posted what I did as much to challenge myself as anyone else.

Nost, I fear people and situations like you describe too. You would help them in a sensible way but they don’t want that, they want it all for nothing and don’t mind jacking people for it.

Partypup, Your last post actually describes my last several years experience with regards to this topic almost exactly. I got out of LA a lot earlier though.I knew four years ago that we would have the biggest recession of my lifetime. I am 47. I don’t think there is any reason to count or insist that anything worse than that is certain. Of course sporadically bad thngs will happen, they always do.

I have given a lot of the kinds or advice you have given.Of course most other people’s money behaviors are none of my business. Most of my friends are doing fine ,less so my family. Besides that I am not exactly rich so who am I to say. I am just a bit like the pig of the three pigs who built the brick house.

I have told people, because I don’t know rich people, not to buy houses since spring of 2003 and I have a sales license. I am currently representing my first buyer since then at almost 50% off from last sale,This is someone I convinced to sell at the peak and rent. I told a lot of people to stay out of the market who I will never see again.Oh well. I am considering getting business cards because I think there are good odds that the purchases will work out better as time goes on. I am not promising anyone anything though.

O.K the important part…
Now, let me ask you: how do YOU propose to be “useful” when TSHTF? 😉

I already have almost everything mentioned on this thread as would be useful in many bad scenarios. I have the land, water and sewer accomodations, productive beasts of burden, farm equipment, fuel, a generator, tons of equipment and the skills to make it all work. I wasn’t even in panic mode when I got it but I realized immediately how advantageous it could be to help people if this worst recession becomes a terrible depression or if there was a catastrophe in town how we could support strangers up here too. You know “head for the hills”.
On the other hand I am aware that if people get too rowdy it isn’t easy to get here and I think I could bother myself to cooperate with my neighbors to establish a ” peace keeping checkpoint”
If something happens in town and I can be of help, I’ll go down and do that. Respecting self preservation to some degree of course.

All that said. I don’t agree with the authority with which you speak regarding apparently relatively near term very broad “chaos” affecting Americans. Obviously I have questioned the value system that would lead you to classify most of the things as “chaos” that you have so far. Even if you are using them to demonstrate the shit is being piled up and the fan is being plugged in, I don’t agree that the result will be a meeting or the two resulting in extreme Chaos. If war between relative equals breaks out, I will change that tune a second.

On the other hand many people in the world are already living the worst case scenario we could imagine. It is frustrating to to me,seems undisciplined, to wallow in anticipation of possible loss of luxury.This always becomes a demand on our politicians to look around for solutions. Yes, you could challenge as to what I am doing with regard to that. So far not much. I speak out against our unjust contributions and I would gladly accept poverty to reduce them if it would help.I will not support Obama or Mccain. One dissapointment coming from this blog is that many people seem ready to classify the Iraq war as a success or failure based on how it affects our standard or living. I am pretty much against bailing ourselves out with other people’s blood.

What is your take on this last paragraph. I already know you don’t like Obama or McCain.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: If the shit truly hits the fan (widespread civil unrest and breakdown), the authorities are screwed. I remember the LA riots in 1992 following the Rodney King verdict and the complete helplessness of the LAPD in handling the situation.

The police and National Guard are improperly trained and underequipped to handle anything widespread and, if the wheels really came off the wagon, you’d be on your own.

Not trying to get all “Mad Max” on you or anything, but you’d be better off hunkering down and waiting for some sort of order to re-assert itself. I remember when they evacuated Fallbrook during the fires last fall and it was chaos. They had the Marine Corps assisting the Sheriff’s Dept. and CHP and it was a goat screw. Bear in mind, this was an ORDERLY evacuation, not a riot or civil unrest.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: If the shit truly hits the fan (widespread civil unrest and breakdown), the authorities are screwed. I remember the LA riots in 1992 following the Rodney King verdict and the complete helplessness of the LAPD in handling the situation.

The police and National Guard are improperly trained and underequipped to handle anything widespread and, if the wheels really came off the wagon, you’d be on your own.

Not trying to get all “Mad Max” on you or anything, but you’d be better off hunkering down and waiting for some sort of order to re-assert itself. I remember when they evacuated Fallbrook during the fires last fall and it was chaos. They had the Marine Corps assisting the Sheriff’s Dept. and CHP and it was a goat screw. Bear in mind, this was an ORDERLY evacuation, not a riot or civil unrest.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: If the shit truly hits the fan (widespread civil unrest and breakdown), the authorities are screwed. I remember the LA riots in 1992 following the Rodney King verdict and the complete helplessness of the LAPD in handling the situation.

The police and National Guard are improperly trained and underequipped to handle anything widespread and, if the wheels really came off the wagon, you’d be on your own.

Not trying to get all “Mad Max” on you or anything, but you’d be better off hunkering down and waiting for some sort of order to re-assert itself. I remember when they evacuated Fallbrook during the fires last fall and it was chaos. They had the Marine Corps assisting the Sheriff’s Dept. and CHP and it was a goat screw. Bear in mind, this was an ORDERLY evacuation, not a riot or civil unrest.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: If the shit truly hits the fan (widespread civil unrest and breakdown), the authorities are screwed. I remember the LA riots in 1992 following the Rodney King verdict and the complete helplessness of the LAPD in handling the situation.

The police and National Guard are improperly trained and underequipped to handle anything widespread and, if the wheels really came off the wagon, you’d be on your own.

Not trying to get all “Mad Max” on you or anything, but you’d be better off hunkering down and waiting for some sort of order to re-assert itself. I remember when they evacuated Fallbrook during the fires last fall and it was chaos. They had the Marine Corps assisting the Sheriff’s Dept. and CHP and it was a goat screw. Bear in mind, this was an ORDERLY evacuation, not a riot or civil unrest.

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