OT: BMW with N54 engine….Class action suit/recall….

[Coronita]

[quote=temeculaguy]Slightly off topic question for you flu, since you know more about bmw’s than anyone I know. I’m car shopping and bmw is one of 5 vehicle on my short list. It’s not for my daily driver, so milege and maintenance isn’t a huge consideration, but the cost of maintenance on bmw’s scare the crap out of me. I had a mercedes in the past and it had the same problem, everything cost 2-3x what it would on another car. I couldn’t get a $40 costco battery, I had to pay $120, headlights, same delio.

Is there a cheaper way around this, are certain mechanics and dealers just jacking up the price or do the parts cost that much more? I was talking to one salesman who was clearly trying to steer me into a 5 series, instead of a 6 or 7 and he alledged the maint cost on the 7 and especially the 6 was almost double that of the 3 and 5. Does that make any sense to you or was he full of crap?

I’m a big dude, 6ft, 200, the c class and 3 series are just uncomfortable. I like ragtops, the 6 convertible circa 2004/5 at about 30k is my #1 choice. MBZ clk ragtop is a little smallish but still has a reasonable backseat. The mbz cls is also a beauty, I’d go hardtop for a cls, cause it looks like a 6 but has 4 doors. The smart 30k would go certified pre-owned on a lexus or infiniti and the absolute smartest for me would be an acura TL because they actually have an acura dealership in town, but I don’t want to be smart.

Warranties are a bit of a waste for me because I put 5k mi a year on a car and I keep them a while. I still need 4 seats. What would you do, would you buy a 5 y.o BMW with say, 50k miles on it, what are your thoughts on the 6 series? I saw a great 6 convert for less that 25k that had a 100k miles on it, so tempting but scary at the same time, i really dont like spending thousands at the shop for stuff that would cost a few hundred on any other car.[/quote]

TG, I need to run off to work right now, and drop by kid off. But I’ll reply later.

In short, if you are going to buy preowned,
1)I’d avoid 6 and 7 series because the cost of of maintanance is expensive if you are not a DIY kid of guy. Also, the bigger issue is dealing with electrical gremlins in this flagship products.
Conincidentally, if you must buy preowned, Porsches are actually one of the most reliable car.

2)I’d avoid any thing that is turbocharged, because you don’t know if the previous owner abused the hell out of it.

3)I’d avoid engines that are direct injected if possible, until they figure out out to get rid of the carbon gunk… This one is going to be a tough one because most cars from europe have some shape or form of direct injection. You can eliminate anything audi/vw that says “FSI” on it. Automakers are pretty quite about these direct injection engine these days too.

[Ren]

TG, a big part of it is the dealer, as service is a huge chunk of their profit. On my (former) Boxster S, the normal service (synthetic oil change/fluids/inspection/belts I think) was done every 15k miles, and the dealer wanted $700 for this at the time. Instead I always took it to a private Porsche mechanic (Performance Independent Porsche in SD). Nice guys, they really know their stuff and build/race their own 911’s. They charged me $400 for the same work.

[Ren]

TG, a big part of it is the dealer, as service is a huge chunk of their profit. On my (former) Boxster S, the normal service (synthetic oil change/fluids/inspection/belts I think) was done every 15k miles, and the dealer wanted $700 for this at the time. Instead I always took it to a private Porsche mechanic (Performance Independent Porsche in SD). Nice guys, they really know their stuff and build/race their own 911’s. They charged me $400 for the same work.

[Ren]

TG, a big part of it is the dealer, as service is a huge chunk of their profit. On my (former) Boxster S, the normal service (synthetic oil change/fluids/inspection/belts I think) was done every 15k miles, and the dealer wanted $700 for this at the time. Instead I always took it to a private Porsche mechanic (Performance Independent Porsche in SD). Nice guys, they really know their stuff and build/race their own 911’s. They charged me $400 for the same work.

[Ren]

TG, a big part of it is the dealer, as service is a huge chunk of their profit. On my (former) Boxster S, the normal service (synthetic oil change/fluids/inspection/belts I think) was done every 15k miles, and the dealer wanted $700 for this at the time. Instead I always took it to a private Porsche mechanic (Performance Independent Porsche in SD). Nice guys, they really know their stuff and build/race their own 911’s. They charged me $400 for the same work.

[Ren]

TG, a big part of it is the dealer, as service is a huge chunk of their profit. On my (former) Boxster S, the normal service (synthetic oil change/fluids/inspection/belts I think) was done every 15k miles, and the dealer wanted $700 for this at the time. Instead I always took it to a private Porsche mechanic (Performance Independent Porsche in SD). Nice guys, they really know their stuff and build/race their own 911’s. They charged me $400 for the same work.

[Coronita]

Ah… Lunch time. TG, back to the original question.
The later models 7 series and 6 series have been plagued with electrical gremlins. The issue with these cars is (and the direction that many car companies are going, which imho is completely the wrong direction) is that they they are putting way too much electronics in things that shouldn’t be electronic to begin with. And that’s really bad news in terms of a preowned car…

Case in point. All late model Bimmers automatics incorporate I-Drive. Your shifter is fully electronic, your parking brake is fully electronic, your throttle is fully electronic. It’s a real cluster*f. As a shifter, you get a joystick looking thing, which a “p” button on top to put it in park, you push the left button and push forward to put it in reverse, and you push the right button and pull it back to put it in drive. I’m surprised some senior citizen wouldn’t accidentally put the thing in the wrong gear, since it really is easy to do. Why the hell did they do this is beyond me…You can avoid this just by buying a stick, but good luck finding a stick on a 7 series or 6 series, or for that matter most 5 series.

Then there’s the parking brake. It is set by pushing a button and released by pushing a button, again fully electronic…If you forget and leave your lights on, and drain your battery, and need to roll your car out of your spot so your jumper cable can reach your buddy’s car…no problem……. Take out the special tool in your trunk, open the special access door in the trunk, and insert the tool into the special access door to manually release the parking brake cable, following the instructions on page X of your owners manual that describes this procedure.. Come on, is a simple parking brake lever with a real cable, THAT low tech that it had to be replaced with one of these electronic gizmos? ???

The there’s the complete integration of your navigation, climate control,etc on a single electronic bus…

These “electronicfication” of your car components poses two major problems after warranty.

1) Most things are electronics that break are too complicated for your independent shop to diagnose and repair. So most likely, you will have to go to the stealer for dianoses…

2) Second, most electronics cannot be repaired. The entire board is replaced and just swapped by the dealers.
You simply won’t find aftermarket electronic boards/etc. It will come from BMW (or the likes), and you will bend over to have those things replaced (repair isn’t an option in most cases). This is different from things like replacing a throttle cable, or replacing a filter, or a physical shifter, in which you probably can find aftermarket parts that are more affordable.

3) German car companies suck at electronics

Put #1-#3 together…Enjoy your new headache…Out of all colleagues and friends relatives that have kept a german car longer than 4-5 years, you hear the problem over and over again. “Drivetrain (engine/transmission/suspension) is great, no problem. Every time I go to the shop it’s because some sensor malfunction, some board malfunctioned, etc….” And the number of problems seems to be exponentially correlated to the more money you spent on the car.

There’s no surprise if you read reports like the latest consumer reports, you would think Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are aggressively competing for the title of the most unreliable cars (only bested by Chrysler)…

So far, I’ve been lucky. Because in all my vehicles, I usually get them with as few electronic options as possible so there are less things to break. I even opted out of a sunroof, since in some cases they’ve exploded too or open by themselves. (One of my audi’s did that…when it was raining and the car was locked ). But again, for me I have a considerably higher pain tolerance for something German than I would say most people would.

End vent… I think I just made enemies with the BMW salesman that you were talking to…

Regarding cost of “normal” parts, comparing Audi/BMW/Mercedes…Parts for Audi will be more readily available, because of their widespread platform sharing with VW… Routine maintenance items for my Audi I stock myself are cheaper than I can find for my Acura of comparable quality, for instance. Stuff that I cannot find aftermarket, I usually raid a friend’s junkyard…One can never have too many ECU boards for instance…. Unfortunately, BMW and Mercedes don’t have as widespread platform sharing so it’s an issue…

I found this guy in san diego, however, to have really good prices

http://europarts-sd.com/

And these guys are good, and are in your neck of the woods (temecula)…

http://www.purems.com/index.php

Edit… Whoops. Just realized Pure Motorsports relocated to Miramar…Sorry. I guess they aren’t in temecula anymore.

[Coronita]

Ah… Lunch time. TG, back to the original question.
The later models 7 series and 6 series have been plagued with electrical gremlins. The issue with these cars is (and the direction that many car companies are going, which imho is completely the wrong direction) is that they they are putting way too much electronics in things that shouldn’t be electronic to begin with. And that’s really bad news in terms of a preowned car…

Case in point. All late model Bimmers automatics incorporate I-Drive. Your shifter is fully electronic, your parking brake is fully electronic, your throttle is fully electronic. It’s a real cluster*f. As a shifter, you get a joystick looking thing, which a “p” button on top to put it in park, you push the left button and push forward to put it in reverse, and you push the right button and pull it back to put it in drive. I’m surprised some senior citizen wouldn’t accidentally put the thing in the wrong gear, since it really is easy to do. Why the hell did they do this is beyond me…You can avoid this just by buying a stick, but good luck finding a stick on a 7 series or 6 series, or for that matter most 5 series.

Then there’s the parking brake. It is set by pushing a button and released by pushing a button, again fully electronic…If you forget and leave your lights on, and drain your battery, and need to roll your car out of your spot so your jumper cable can reach your buddy’s car…no problem……. Take out the special tool in your trunk, open the special access door in the trunk, and insert the tool into the special access door to manually release the parking brake cable, following the instructions on page X of your owners manual that describes this procedure.. Come on, is a simple parking brake lever with a real cable, THAT low tech that it had to be replaced with one of these electronic gizmos? ???

The there’s the complete integration of your navigation, climate control,etc on a single electronic bus…

These “electronicfication” of your car components poses two major problems after warranty.

1) Most things are electronics that break are too complicated for your independent shop to diagnose and repair. So most likely, you will have to go to the stealer for dianoses…

2) Second, most electronics cannot be repaired. The entire board is replaced and just swapped by the dealers.
You simply won’t find aftermarket electronic boards/etc. It will come from BMW (or the likes), and you will bend over to have those things replaced (repair isn’t an option in most cases). This is different from things like replacing a throttle cable, or replacing a filter, or a physical shifter, in which you probably can find aftermarket parts that are more affordable.

3) German car companies suck at electronics

Put #1-#3 together…Enjoy your new headache…Out of all colleagues and friends relatives that have kept a german car longer than 4-5 years, you hear the problem over and over again. “Drivetrain (engine/transmission/suspension) is great, no problem. Every time I go to the shop it’s because some sensor malfunction, some board malfunctioned, etc….” And the number of problems seems to be exponentially correlated to the more money you spent on the car.

There’s no surprise if you read reports like the latest consumer reports, you would think Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are aggressively competing for the title of the most unreliable cars (only bested by Chrysler)…

So far, I’ve been lucky. Because in all my vehicles, I usually get them with as few electronic options as possible so there are less things to break. I even opted out of a sunroof, since in some cases they’ve exploded too or open by themselves. (One of my audi’s did that…when it was raining and the car was locked ). But again, for me I have a considerably higher pain tolerance for something German than I would say most people would.

End vent… I think I just made enemies with the BMW salesman that you were talking to…

Regarding cost of “normal” parts, comparing Audi/BMW/Mercedes…Parts for Audi will be more readily available, because of their widespread platform sharing with VW… Routine maintenance items for my Audi I stock myself are cheaper than I can find for my Acura of comparable quality, for instance. Stuff that I cannot find aftermarket, I usually raid a friend’s junkyard…One can never have too many ECU boards for instance…. Unfortunately, BMW and Mercedes don’t have as widespread platform sharing so it’s an issue…

I found this guy in san diego, however, to have really good prices

http://europarts-sd.com/

And these guys are good, and are in your neck of the woods (temecula)…

http://www.purems.com/index.php

Edit… Whoops. Just realized Pure Motorsports relocated to Miramar…Sorry. I guess they aren’t in temecula anymore.

[Coronita]

Ah… Lunch time. TG, back to the original question.
The later models 7 series and 6 series have been plagued with electrical gremlins. The issue with these cars is (and the direction that many car companies are going, which imho is completely the wrong direction) is that they they are putting way too much electronics in things that shouldn’t be electronic to begin with. And that’s really bad news in terms of a preowned car…

Case in point. All late model Bimmers automatics incorporate I-Drive. Your shifter is fully electronic, your parking brake is fully electronic, your throttle is fully electronic. It’s a real cluster*f. As a shifter, you get a joystick looking thing, which a “p” button on top to put it in park, you push the left button and push forward to put it in reverse, and you push the right button and pull it back to put it in drive. I’m surprised some senior citizen wouldn’t accidentally put the thing in the wrong gear, since it really is easy to do. Why the hell did they do this is beyond me…You can avoid this just by buying a stick, but good luck finding a stick on a 7 series or 6 series, or for that matter most 5 series.

Then there’s the parking brake. It is set by pushing a button and released by pushing a button, again fully electronic…If you forget and leave your lights on, and drain your battery, and need to roll your car out of your spot so your jumper cable can reach your buddy’s car…no problem……. Take out the special tool in your trunk, open the special access door in the trunk, and insert the tool into the special access door to manually release the parking brake cable, following the instructions on page X of your owners manual that describes this procedure.. Come on, is a simple parking brake lever with a real cable, THAT low tech that it had to be replaced with one of these electronic gizmos? ???

The there’s the complete integration of your navigation, climate control,etc on a single electronic bus…

These “electronicfication” of your car components poses two major problems after warranty.

1) Most things are electronics that break are too complicated for your independent shop to diagnose and repair. So most likely, you will have to go to the stealer for dianoses…

2) Second, most electronics cannot be repaired. The entire board is replaced and just swapped by the dealers.
You simply won’t find aftermarket electronic boards/etc. It will come from BMW (or the likes), and you will bend over to have those things replaced (repair isn’t an option in most cases). This is different from things like replacing a throttle cable, or replacing a filter, or a physical shifter, in which you probably can find aftermarket parts that are more affordable.

3) German car companies suck at electronics

Put #1-#3 together…Enjoy your new headache…Out of all colleagues and friends relatives that have kept a german car longer than 4-5 years, you hear the problem over and over again. “Drivetrain (engine/transmission/suspension) is great, no problem. Every time I go to the shop it’s because some sensor malfunction, some board malfunctioned, etc….” And the number of problems seems to be exponentially correlated to the more money you spent on the car.

There’s no surprise if you read reports like the latest consumer reports, you would think Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are aggressively competing for the title of the most unreliable cars (only bested by Chrysler)…

So far, I’ve been lucky. Because in all my vehicles, I usually get them with as few electronic options as possible so there are less things to break. I even opted out of a sunroof, since in some cases they’ve exploded too or open by themselves. (One of my audi’s did that…when it was raining and the car was locked ). But again, for me I have a considerably higher pain tolerance for something German than I would say most people would.

End vent… I think I just made enemies with the BMW salesman that you were talking to…

Regarding cost of “normal” parts, comparing Audi/BMW/Mercedes…Parts for Audi will be more readily available, because of their widespread platform sharing with VW… Routine maintenance items for my Audi I stock myself are cheaper than I can find for my Acura of comparable quality, for instance. Stuff that I cannot find aftermarket, I usually raid a friend’s junkyard…One can never have too many ECU boards for instance…. Unfortunately, BMW and Mercedes don’t have as widespread platform sharing so it’s an issue…

I found this guy in san diego, however, to have really good prices

http://europarts-sd.com/

And these guys are good, and are in your neck of the woods (temecula)…

http://www.purems.com/index.php

Edit… Whoops. Just realized Pure Motorsports relocated to Miramar…Sorry. I guess they aren’t in temecula anymore.

[Coronita]

Ah… Lunch time. TG, back to the original question.
The later models 7 series and 6 series have been plagued with electrical gremlins. The issue with these cars is (and the direction that many car companies are going, which imho is completely the wrong direction) is that they they are putting way too much electronics in things that shouldn’t be electronic to begin with. And that’s really bad news in terms of a preowned car…

Case in point. All late model Bimmers automatics incorporate I-Drive. Your shifter is fully electronic, your parking brake is fully electronic, your throttle is fully electronic. It’s a real cluster*f. As a shifter, you get a joystick looking thing, which a “p” button on top to put it in park, you push the left button and push forward to put it in reverse, and you push the right button and pull it back to put it in drive. I’m surprised some senior citizen wouldn’t accidentally put the thing in the wrong gear, since it really is easy to do. Why the hell did they do this is beyond me…You can avoid this just by buying a stick, but good luck finding a stick on a 7 series or 6 series, or for that matter most 5 series.

Then there’s the parking brake. It is set by pushing a button and released by pushing a button, again fully electronic…If you forget and leave your lights on, and drain your battery, and need to roll your car out of your spot so your jumper cable can reach your buddy’s car…no problem……. Take out the special tool in your trunk, open the special access door in the trunk, and insert the tool into the special access door to manually release the parking brake cable, following the instructions on page X of your owners manual that describes this procedure.. Come on, is a simple parking brake lever with a real cable, THAT low tech that it had to be replaced with one of these electronic gizmos? ???

The there’s the complete integration of your navigation, climate control,etc on a single electronic bus…

These “electronicfication” of your car components poses two major problems after warranty.

1) Most things are electronics that break are too complicated for your independent shop to diagnose and repair. So most likely, you will have to go to the stealer for dianoses…

2) Second, most electronics cannot be repaired. The entire board is replaced and just swapped by the dealers.
You simply won’t find aftermarket electronic boards/etc. It will come from BMW (or the likes), and you will bend over to have those things replaced (repair isn’t an option in most cases). This is different from things like replacing a throttle cable, or replacing a filter, or a physical shifter, in which you probably can find aftermarket parts that are more affordable.

3) German car companies suck at electronics

Put #1-#3 together…Enjoy your new headache…Out of all colleagues and friends relatives that have kept a german car longer than 4-5 years, you hear the problem over and over again. “Drivetrain (engine/transmission/suspension) is great, no problem. Every time I go to the shop it’s because some sensor malfunction, some board malfunctioned, etc….” And the number of problems seems to be exponentially correlated to the more money you spent on the car.

There’s no surprise if you read reports like the latest consumer reports, you would think Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are aggressively competing for the title of the most unreliable cars (only bested by Chrysler)…

So far, I’ve been lucky. Because in all my vehicles, I usually get them with as few electronic options as possible so there are less things to break. I even opted out of a sunroof, since in some cases they’ve exploded too or open by themselves. (One of my audi’s did that…when it was raining and the car was locked ). But again, for me I have a considerably higher pain tolerance for something German than I would say most people would.

End vent… I think I just made enemies with the BMW salesman that you were talking to…

Regarding cost of “normal” parts, comparing Audi/BMW/Mercedes…Parts for Audi will be more readily available, because of their widespread platform sharing with VW… Routine maintenance items for my Audi I stock myself are cheaper than I can find for my Acura of comparable quality, for instance. Stuff that I cannot find aftermarket, I usually raid a friend’s junkyard…One can never have too many ECU boards for instance…. Unfortunately, BMW and Mercedes don’t have as widespread platform sharing so it’s an issue…

I found this guy in san diego, however, to have really good prices

http://europarts-sd.com/

And these guys are good, and are in your neck of the woods (temecula)…

http://www.purems.com/index.php

Edit… Whoops. Just realized Pure Motorsports relocated to Miramar…Sorry. I guess they aren’t in temecula anymore.

[Coronita]

Ah… Lunch time. TG, back to the original question.
The later models 7 series and 6 series have been plagued with electrical gremlins. The issue with these cars is (and the direction that many car companies are going, which imho is completely the wrong direction) is that they they are putting way too much electronics in things that shouldn’t be electronic to begin with. And that’s really bad news in terms of a preowned car…

Case in point. All late model Bimmers automatics incorporate I-Drive. Your shifter is fully electronic, your parking brake is fully electronic, your throttle is fully electronic. It’s a real cluster*f. As a shifter, you get a joystick looking thing, which a “p” button on top to put it in park, you push the left button and push forward to put it in reverse, and you push the right button and pull it back to put it in drive. I’m surprised some senior citizen wouldn’t accidentally put the thing in the wrong gear, since it really is easy to do. Why the hell did they do this is beyond me…You can avoid this just by buying a stick, but good luck finding a stick on a 7 series or 6 series, or for that matter most 5 series.

Then there’s the parking brake. It is set by pushing a button and released by pushing a button, again fully electronic…If you forget and leave your lights on, and drain your battery, and need to roll your car out of your spot so your jumper cable can reach your buddy’s car…no problem……. Take out the special tool in your trunk, open the special access door in the trunk, and insert the tool into the special access door to manually release the parking brake cable, following the instructions on page X of your owners manual that describes this procedure.. Come on, is a simple parking brake lever with a real cable, THAT low tech that it had to be replaced with one of these electronic gizmos? ???

The there’s the complete integration of your navigation, climate control,etc on a single electronic bus…

These “electronicfication” of your car components poses two major problems after warranty.

1) Most things are electronics that break are too complicated for your independent shop to diagnose and repair. So most likely, you will have to go to the stealer for dianoses…

2) Second, most electronics cannot be repaired. The entire board is replaced and just swapped by the dealers.
You simply won’t find aftermarket electronic boards/etc. It will come from BMW (or the likes), and you will bend over to have those things replaced (repair isn’t an option in most cases). This is different from things like replacing a throttle cable, or replacing a filter, or a physical shifter, in which you probably can find aftermarket parts that are more affordable.

3) German car companies suck at electronics

Put #1-#3 together…Enjoy your new headache…Out of all colleagues and friends relatives that have kept a german car longer than 4-5 years, you hear the problem over and over again. “Drivetrain (engine/transmission/suspension) is great, no problem. Every time I go to the shop it’s because some sensor malfunction, some board malfunctioned, etc….” And the number of problems seems to be exponentially correlated to the more money you spent on the car.

There’s no surprise if you read reports like the latest consumer reports, you would think Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are aggressively competing for the title of the most unreliable cars (only bested by Chrysler)…

So far, I’ve been lucky. Because in all my vehicles, I usually get them with as few electronic options as possible so there are less things to break. I even opted out of a sunroof, since in some cases they’ve exploded too or open by themselves. (One of my audi’s did that…when it was raining and the car was locked ). But again, for me I have a considerably higher pain tolerance for something German than I would say most people would.

End vent… I think I just made enemies with the BMW salesman that you were talking to…

Regarding cost of “normal” parts, comparing Audi/BMW/Mercedes…Parts for Audi will be more readily available, because of their widespread platform sharing with VW… Routine maintenance items for my Audi I stock myself are cheaper than I can find for my Acura of comparable quality, for instance. Stuff that I cannot find aftermarket, I usually raid a friend’s junkyard…One can never have too many ECU boards for instance…. Unfortunately, BMW and Mercedes don’t have as widespread platform sharing so it’s an issue…

I found this guy in san diego, however, to have really good prices

http://europarts-sd.com/

And these guys are good, and are in your neck of the woods (temecula)…

http://www.purems.com/index.php

Edit… Whoops. Just realized Pure Motorsports relocated to Miramar…Sorry. I guess they aren’t in temecula anymore.

[temeculaguy]

Your technical explanation explains the economics of what I’ve notice, that the flagships fall off a cliff for resale value at about 4-5 years. The 6 and 7 are in the 90-100k range new, the 3 and 5 are are half the price, at about 5 years old, the price differential is 10k or less. Your explanation sheds light as to some of the reasons why and why more than one dealer/broker have tried to explain that the flagships cost more to maintain and have more problems. I appreciate the input, I may go another direction. Sometimes I wish they would make a four seat corvette.

Ren, I know the dealer service is overpriced but even from independant mechanics, I was hearing about exponential price markups for the higher end models, (ie. brakes on a 6 series cost double that of a 3), it seemed unique to german cars. How did you like your porsche? The 911’s hold their value fairly well so they are out of my price range, the boxter has great reliability ratings but just two seats so that only leaves the cayanne as being able to fit my needs and price range. I’m not sure I love the cayanne as far as how they look, so they haven’t been on my radar all that much. Even the $400 you mentioned for the oil change/routine service, I can’t get past the fact that the same service on a lexus/infiniti/acura would cost under $100, but none of them get me all that excited. Since I’m looking at used, more than just oil changes are likely in my future. The left and right side of my brain are in an all out war on this damn car issue.

[temeculaguy]

Your technical explanation explains the economics of what I’ve notice, that the flagships fall off a cliff for resale value at about 4-5 years. The 6 and 7 are in the 90-100k range new, the 3 and 5 are are half the price, at about 5 years old, the price differential is 10k or less. Your explanation sheds light as to some of the reasons why and why more than one dealer/broker have tried to explain that the flagships cost more to maintain and have more problems. I appreciate the input, I may go another direction. Sometimes I wish they would make a four seat corvette.

Ren, I know the dealer service is overpriced but even from independant mechanics, I was hearing about exponential price markups for the higher end models, (ie. brakes on a 6 series cost double that of a 3), it seemed unique to german cars. How did you like your porsche? The 911’s hold their value fairly well so they are out of my price range, the boxter has great reliability ratings but just two seats so that only leaves the cayanne as being able to fit my needs and price range. I’m not sure I love the cayanne as far as how they look, so they haven’t been on my radar all that much. Even the $400 you mentioned for the oil change/routine service, I can’t get past the fact that the same service on a lexus/infiniti/acura would cost under $100, but none of them get me all that excited. Since I’m looking at used, more than just oil changes are likely in my future. The left and right side of my brain are in an all out war on this damn car issue.

[temeculaguy]

Your technical explanation explains the economics of what I’ve notice, that the flagships fall off a cliff for resale value at about 4-5 years. The 6 and 7 are in the 90-100k range new, the 3 and 5 are are half the price, at about 5 years old, the price differential is 10k or less. Your explanation sheds light as to some of the reasons why and why more than one dealer/broker have tried to explain that the flagships cost more to maintain and have more problems. I appreciate the input, I may go another direction. Sometimes I wish they would make a four seat corvette.

Ren, I know the dealer service is overpriced but even from independant mechanics, I was hearing about exponential price markups for the higher end models, (ie. brakes on a 6 series cost double that of a 3), it seemed unique to german cars. How did you like your porsche? The 911’s hold their value fairly well so they are out of my price range, the boxter has great reliability ratings but just two seats so that only leaves the cayanne as being able to fit my needs and price range. I’m not sure I love the cayanne as far as how they look, so they haven’t been on my radar all that much. Even the $400 you mentioned for the oil change/routine service, I can’t get past the fact that the same service on a lexus/infiniti/acura would cost under $100, but none of them get me all that excited. Since I’m looking at used, more than just oil changes are likely in my future. The left and right side of my brain are in an all out war on this damn car issue.

[temeculaguy]

Your technical explanation explains the economics of what I’ve notice, that the flagships fall off a cliff for resale value at about 4-5 years. The 6 and 7 are in the 90-100k range new, the 3 and 5 are are half the price, at about 5 years old, the price differential is 10k or less. Your explanation sheds light as to some of the reasons why and why more than one dealer/broker have tried to explain that the flagships cost more to maintain and have more problems. I appreciate the input, I may go another direction. Sometimes I wish they would make a four seat corvette.

Ren, I know the dealer service is overpriced but even from independant mechanics, I was hearing about exponential price markups for the higher end models, (ie. brakes on a 6 series cost double that of a 3), it seemed unique to german cars. How did you like your porsche? The 911’s hold their value fairly well so they are out of my price range, the boxter has great reliability ratings but just two seats so that only leaves the cayanne as being able to fit my needs and price range. I’m not sure I love the cayanne as far as how they look, so they haven’t been on my radar all that much. Even the $400 you mentioned for the oil change/routine service, I can’t get past the fact that the same service on a lexus/infiniti/acura would cost under $100, but none of them get me all that excited. Since I’m looking at used, more than just oil changes are likely in my future. The left and right side of my brain are in an all out war on this damn car issue.

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