OT – Alcoholism and Addiction

[bearishgurl]

If there is no genetic predisposition to alcoholism, then why is it so rampant among indigenous peoples of North America, i.e. Native American tribes? Why is cirrhosis in their 40’s and 50’s also prevalent among them??

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh22-4/253.pdf

The age-adjusted mortality rates for the following causes were higher among American Indians than among all races in the U.S in 1983:
1. Tuberculosis–560% greater
2. Alcoholism–374% greater
3. Accidents–135% greater
4. Diabetes–107% greater
5. Homicide–91% greater
6. Pneumonia and influenza–39% greater

It might be argued that most Native Americans are living in substandard conditions and are poorly socialized. Based upon personal experience, I believe the opposite to be true. Many tribes build new construction SFR’s for their members to live in on tribal lands. They socialize with each other, attend public schools and get first preference to casino hiring (mostly “public” jobs requiring social skills). Many are elected to tribal and local/state legislative posts. These tribes also have housing downpayment assistance available for their members in the form of cash gifts and septic/leachfield placement and services available for those members who buy land (improved or unimproved) and need this assistance. Tax free supermarkets and stores abound on the reservations. There are also small business and educational grants available from many tribes. Free medical, dental and vision services are available for tribal members at their local tribal clinics/hospitals/physical rehab centers (the tribes “comp” each other’s members). If a member needs medical services at a bigger, better or distant facility, Indian Health Svcs will pick up the tab (at MediCaid reimbursement rates).

In my travels, I see frequent billboards advertising self-determination and abstinence from alcohol and drugs. It seems that it is a constant struggle for the tribes to keep many of their members clean and sober. After the crystal meth “epicenter” moved out of SD East County in the mid-90’s (thanks to Dianne Jacob and the multi-agency “Meth Strike Force” who drove it out with a vengeance), this mfg activity and user epidemic has migrated eastward – as far eastward as the state of Arkansas. This is a terrible threat to rural tribal members who may be exposed to this activity and these chemicals all around them, including the pollution of their groundwater and soil. Law enforcement in these areas are now beginning to get help from the Federal govt (DEA and NTF) who are going undercover by setting up shop in unlabeled, nondescript trailers in these areas. There are billboards all over these areas warning tribal members to stay away from meth and other drugs and listing free numbers to call for help.

Arkansas Substance Abuse Situation and Government Response
Tens of thousands of pounds of marijuana and hundreds of kilos of cocaine continue to be seized each year on Arkansas’ interstate highways. Interstate 40, which crosses the state from east to west and runs through the largest city of Little Rock, remains the most popular highway for the transportation of drugs. Criminal groups in Arkansas have also been acquiring thousands of cases of pseudoephedrine from wholesalers and often use complicated networks to illegally transport and sell the decongestant to methamphetamine producers, who use it in the creation of meth.

One program set up by the state to help defray the negative effects that are often brought by drug addiction is the Arkansas Alliance for Drug Endangered Children. The organization is a coalition of professionals that aids local communities in successfully and proficiently identifying and protecting children who are put in danger by caregivers who make, distribute, or use illegal drugs, especially methamphetamine and cocaine.

See: http://aboutrecovery.com/treatment-center/arkansas.htm

Certainly, meth and other narcotic addictions have environmental causes in that they are dependent upon local availability. But alcohol (and cigarettes) are legal and sold tax-free on the reservation. Native Americans overall are succumbing to alcohol-related deaths at younger and younger ages … many in their late 30’s and 40’s. It’s an overwhelming race against time for these tribes. The general population has just as much access to alcohol as they do, yet fares better in their ability to handle alcohol. For that reason, I DO believe Native Americans (many mixed with Irish and Scots-Irish, btw), have a “genetic predisposition” (not calling it a “gene”) to alcohol addiction. The same could be said of Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians, Guamanians and South Pacific Islanders, all indigenous peoples of their respective territories. See:

http://www.adp.ca.gov/indian/substance.shtml

http://www.azdhs.gov/phs/tribal/pdf/pao_hshandout021605.pdf

http://conferences.jbs.biz/treatment_homeless_08/PostWebSitePosting/3%20Wednesday,%20June%2018/11%20Ehrlich,%20Nakai%20wrkshp/Ehrlich/Hnd%20Interventions%20for%20Alcohol%20Problems%20in%20Minority%20and%20Rural%20Populations.pdf

http://www.alcohol-information.com/Alcohol_Abuse_in_Native_Communities.html

http://adaeveningnews.com/cnhins/x212584107/Chickasaw-Nation-fighting-addictions

http://www.addictionsearch.com/addiction-treatment/OK-29501/native-american-center-of-recovery-inc/

http://www.sober-solutions.com/oklahoma-drug-rehab-alcohol-treatment/

http://www.interventionservicesinc.com/oklahoma-interventionist.php

One of the most renowned residential rehab and detox centers in the world is located lakefront in a beautiful and peaceful part of the country (“Indian Territory”), now in the epicenter of an insidious and pervasive meth-infestation corridor. Cost is $7K to $10K per month.

See: http://www.narcononcenter.com/NarcononArrowhead.html

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]This was where I drew the conclusion that we do not agree,ZK. “If your assertion was that there is no genetic component to alcoholism, then I strongly disagree. In fact, studies have shown not only that there is likely a genetic component, but they have shown which genes contribute.”

I asked you for a link. You said you would get back with one. Maybe I missed it. I have read studies that report those claims and they qualify as the type of work I am criticizing. I did not get the idea that we are agreeing,mostly because of the issue of specificity I thought you were advancing. If you were not claiming genes specific to Alcoholism, Bulimia and Anorexia,that specifically debilitates those people in those ways and not others, than we are closer to agreement.[/quote]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1097/01.ALC.0000108645.54345.98/pdf

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/16/2421.full

http://journals.lww.com/jpharmacogenetics/Abstract/2005/11000/ADH4_gene_variation_is_associated_with_alcohol_and.1.aspx

This one has more links at the bottom:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/a…

These are studies that point to specific genes that increase one’s predisposition to alcoholism.

But genes specific to alcoholism are irrelevant to my main argument, which is that alcoholism has a strong genetic component. Whether the constellation of genes for alcoholism (or the constellations for anorexia or bulimia) also increase one’s predisposition for other problems is irrelevant for my argument. If the genes that make it more likely that you’ll have alcoholism also make it more likely that you’ll have some other problem, that doesn’t change the fact that those genes predispose you to alcoholism.

Even if having certain personality traits (e.g. social inhibition, impulse control problems) have a genetic component, and those traits make it more likely you’ll have alcoholism, then that constitutes a genetic component for alcoholism. The genes don’t by any means have to be specific to alcoholism and not affect anything else.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]This was where I drew the conclusion that we do not agree,ZK. “If your assertion was that there is no genetic component to alcoholism, then I strongly disagree. In fact, studies have shown not only that there is likely a genetic component, but they have shown which genes contribute.”

I asked you for a link. You said you would get back with one. Maybe I missed it. I have read studies that report those claims and they qualify as the type of work I am criticizing. I did not get the idea that we are agreeing,mostly because of the issue of specificity I thought you were advancing. If you were not claiming genes specific to Alcoholism, Bulimia and Anorexia,that specifically debilitates those people in those ways and not others, than we are closer to agreement.[/quote]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1097/01.ALC.0000108645.54345.98/pdf

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/16/2421.full

http://journals.lww.com/jpharmacogenetics/Abstract/2005/11000/ADH4_gene_variation_is_associated_with_alcohol_and.1.aspx

This one has more links at the bottom:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/a…

These are studies that point to specific genes that increase one’s predisposition to alcoholism.

But genes specific to alcoholism are irrelevant to my main argument, which is that alcoholism has a strong genetic component. Whether the constellation of genes for alcoholism (or the constellations for anorexia or bulimia) also increase one’s predisposition for other problems is irrelevant for my argument. If the genes that make it more likely that you’ll have alcoholism also make it more likely that you’ll have some other problem, that doesn’t change the fact that those genes predispose you to alcoholism.

Even if having certain personality traits (e.g. social inhibition, impulse control problems) have a genetic component, and those traits make it more likely you’ll have alcoholism, then that constitutes a genetic component for alcoholism. The genes don’t by any means have to be specific to alcoholism and not affect anything else.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]This was where I drew the conclusion that we do not agree,ZK. “If your assertion was that there is no genetic component to alcoholism, then I strongly disagree. In fact, studies have shown not only that there is likely a genetic component, but they have shown which genes contribute.”

I asked you for a link. You said you would get back with one. Maybe I missed it. I have read studies that report those claims and they qualify as the type of work I am criticizing. I did not get the idea that we are agreeing,mostly because of the issue of specificity I thought you were advancing. If you were not claiming genes specific to Alcoholism, Bulimia and Anorexia,that specifically debilitates those people in those ways and not others, than we are closer to agreement.[/quote]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1097/01.ALC.0000108645.54345.98/pdf

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/16/2421.full

http://journals.lww.com/jpharmacogenetics/Abstract/2005/11000/ADH4_gene_variation_is_associated_with_alcohol_and.1.aspx

This one has more links at the bottom:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/a…

These are studies that point to specific genes that increase one’s predisposition to alcoholism.

But genes specific to alcoholism are irrelevant to my main argument, which is that alcoholism has a strong genetic component. Whether the constellation of genes for alcoholism (or the constellations for anorexia or bulimia) also increase one’s predisposition for other problems is irrelevant for my argument. If the genes that make it more likely that you’ll have alcoholism also make it more likely that you’ll have some other problem, that doesn’t change the fact that those genes predispose you to alcoholism.

Even if having certain personality traits (e.g. social inhibition, impulse control problems) have a genetic component, and those traits make it more likely you’ll have alcoholism, then that constitutes a genetic component for alcoholism. The genes don’t by any means have to be specific to alcoholism and not affect anything else.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]This was where I drew the conclusion that we do not agree,ZK. “If your assertion was that there is no genetic component to alcoholism, then I strongly disagree. In fact, studies have shown not only that there is likely a genetic component, but they have shown which genes contribute.”

I asked you for a link. You said you would get back with one. Maybe I missed it. I have read studies that report those claims and they qualify as the type of work I am criticizing. I did not get the idea that we are agreeing,mostly because of the issue of specificity I thought you were advancing. If you were not claiming genes specific to Alcoholism, Bulimia and Anorexia,that specifically debilitates those people in those ways and not others, than we are closer to agreement.[/quote]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1097/01.ALC.0000108645.54345.98/pdf

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/16/2421.full

http://journals.lww.com/jpharmacogenetics/Abstract/2005/11000/ADH4_gene_variation_is_associated_with_alcohol_and.1.aspx

This one has more links at the bottom:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/a…

These are studies that point to specific genes that increase one’s predisposition to alcoholism.

But genes specific to alcoholism are irrelevant to my main argument, which is that alcoholism has a strong genetic component. Whether the constellation of genes for alcoholism (or the constellations for anorexia or bulimia) also increase one’s predisposition for other problems is irrelevant for my argument. If the genes that make it more likely that you’ll have alcoholism also make it more likely that you’ll have some other problem, that doesn’t change the fact that those genes predispose you to alcoholism.

Even if having certain personality traits (e.g. social inhibition, impulse control problems) have a genetic component, and those traits make it more likely you’ll have alcoholism, then that constitutes a genetic component for alcoholism. The genes don’t by any means have to be specific to alcoholism and not affect anything else.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]This was where I drew the conclusion that we do not agree,ZK. “If your assertion was that there is no genetic component to alcoholism, then I strongly disagree. In fact, studies have shown not only that there is likely a genetic component, but they have shown which genes contribute.”

I asked you for a link. You said you would get back with one. Maybe I missed it. I have read studies that report those claims and they qualify as the type of work I am criticizing. I did not get the idea that we are agreeing,mostly because of the issue of specificity I thought you were advancing. If you were not claiming genes specific to Alcoholism, Bulimia and Anorexia,that specifically debilitates those people in those ways and not others, than we are closer to agreement.[/quote]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1097/01.ALC.0000108645.54345.98/pdf

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/14/16/2421.full

http://journals.lww.com/jpharmacogenetics/Abstract/2005/11000/ADH4_gene_variation_is_associated_with_alcohol_and.1.aspx

This one has more links at the bottom:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/a…

These are studies that point to specific genes that increase one’s predisposition to alcoholism.

But genes specific to alcoholism are irrelevant to my main argument, which is that alcoholism has a strong genetic component. Whether the constellation of genes for alcoholism (or the constellations for anorexia or bulimia) also increase one’s predisposition for other problems is irrelevant for my argument. If the genes that make it more likely that you’ll have alcoholism also make it more likely that you’ll have some other problem, that doesn’t change the fact that those genes predispose you to alcoholism.

Even if having certain personality traits (e.g. social inhibition, impulse control problems) have a genetic component, and those traits make it more likely you’ll have alcoholism, then that constitutes a genetic component for alcoholism. The genes don’t by any means have to be specific to alcoholism and not affect anything else.

[Aecetia]

I think there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but environmental factors provide the tipping point. It is not an either or relationship. Will power is important, but if we had will power there would not be so much obesity in the population. I am not trying to give people an excuse but, you do see it in certain families and populations. IQ is also somewhat genetic, but without the proper nutrition, it could be decreased. There are many genetic factors that are expressed in human behavior as the human genome is decoded, I am certain there will be many more interesting relationships between negative and positive behavior and genes. It will be a Brave New World.

[Aecetia]

I think there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but environmental factors provide the tipping point. It is not an either or relationship. Will power is important, but if we had will power there would not be so much obesity in the population. I am not trying to give people an excuse but, you do see it in certain families and populations. IQ is also somewhat genetic, but without the proper nutrition, it could be decreased. There are many genetic factors that are expressed in human behavior as the human genome is decoded, I am certain there will be many more interesting relationships between negative and positive behavior and genes. It will be a Brave New World.

[Aecetia]

I think there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but environmental factors provide the tipping point. It is not an either or relationship. Will power is important, but if we had will power there would not be so much obesity in the population. I am not trying to give people an excuse but, you do see it in certain families and populations. IQ is also somewhat genetic, but without the proper nutrition, it could be decreased. There are many genetic factors that are expressed in human behavior as the human genome is decoded, I am certain there will be many more interesting relationships between negative and positive behavior and genes. It will be a Brave New World.

[Aecetia]

I think there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but environmental factors provide the tipping point. It is not an either or relationship. Will power is important, but if we had will power there would not be so much obesity in the population. I am not trying to give people an excuse but, you do see it in certain families and populations. IQ is also somewhat genetic, but without the proper nutrition, it could be decreased. There are many genetic factors that are expressed in human behavior as the human genome is decoded, I am certain there will be many more interesting relationships between negative and positive behavior and genes. It will be a Brave New World.

[Aecetia]

I think there is a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but environmental factors provide the tipping point. It is not an either or relationship. Will power is important, but if we had will power there would not be so much obesity in the population. I am not trying to give people an excuse but, you do see it in certain families and populations. IQ is also somewhat genetic, but without the proper nutrition, it could be decreased. There are many genetic factors that are expressed in human behavior as the human genome is decoded, I am certain there will be many more interesting relationships between negative and positive behavior and genes. It will be a Brave New World.

[zk]

[quote=briansd1]

I think that we do a disservice to the addicted by saying it’s genetic. They interpret that as nothing can be done so they’re just condemned to addiction.

[/quote]

Sure, except I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s strictly genetic. The other side of the coin is that if we say there’s no genetic component, we’re also doing a disservice. Knowledge, in the immortal words of Emil Faber, is good.

[zk]

[quote=briansd1]

I think that we do a disservice to the addicted by saying it’s genetic. They interpret that as nothing can be done so they’re just condemned to addiction.

[/quote]

Sure, except I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s strictly genetic. The other side of the coin is that if we say there’s no genetic component, we’re also doing a disservice. Knowledge, in the immortal words of Emil Faber, is good.

[zk]

[quote=briansd1]

I think that we do a disservice to the addicted by saying it’s genetic. They interpret that as nothing can be done so they’re just condemned to addiction.

[/quote]

Sure, except I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s strictly genetic. The other side of the coin is that if we say there’s no genetic component, we’re also doing a disservice. Knowledge, in the immortal words of Emil Faber, is good.

[zk]

[quote=briansd1]

I think that we do a disservice to the addicted by saying it’s genetic. They interpret that as nothing can be done so they’re just condemned to addiction.

[/quote]

Sure, except I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s strictly genetic. The other side of the coin is that if we say there’s no genetic component, we’re also doing a disservice. Knowledge, in the immortal words of Emil Faber, is good.

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