OT – Alcoholism and Addiction

[Arraya]

[quote=Rustico]

I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. .[/quote]

Eh, I would call it detrimental evolutionary baggage which is exacerbated, preyed upon and encouraged culturally due to a socioeconomic structural necessity, to the point of self-harm and manifestation of junky mentality on a mass-scale. But that’s just me;)

[NotCranky]

[quote=Arraya][quote=Rustico]

I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. .[/quote]

Eh, I would call it detrimental evolutionary baggage which is exacerbated, preyed upon and encouraged culturally due to a socioeconomic structural necessity, to the point of self-harm and manifestation of junky mentality on a mass-scale. But that’s just me;)[/quote]

I got mine out of a Cracker Jacks box, where did you get yours?

[NotCranky]

[quote=Arraya][quote=Rustico]

I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. .[/quote]

Eh, I would call it detrimental evolutionary baggage which is exacerbated, preyed upon and encouraged culturally due to a socioeconomic structural necessity, to the point of self-harm and manifestation of junky mentality on a mass-scale. But that’s just me;)[/quote]

I got mine out of a Cracker Jacks box, where did you get yours?

[NotCranky]

[quote=Arraya][quote=Rustico]

I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. .[/quote]

Eh, I would call it detrimental evolutionary baggage which is exacerbated, preyed upon and encouraged culturally due to a socioeconomic structural necessity, to the point of self-harm and manifestation of junky mentality on a mass-scale. But that’s just me;)[/quote]

I got mine out of a Cracker Jacks box, where did you get yours?

[NotCranky]

[quote=Arraya][quote=Rustico]

I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. .[/quote]

Eh, I would call it detrimental evolutionary baggage which is exacerbated, preyed upon and encouraged culturally due to a socioeconomic structural necessity, to the point of self-harm and manifestation of junky mentality on a mass-scale. But that’s just me;)[/quote]

I got mine out of a Cracker Jacks box, where did you get yours?

[NotCranky]

[quote=Arraya][quote=Rustico]

I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. .[/quote]

Eh, I would call it detrimental evolutionary baggage which is exacerbated, preyed upon and encouraged culturally due to a socioeconomic structural necessity, to the point of self-harm and manifestation of junky mentality on a mass-scale. But that’s just me;)[/quote]

I got mine out of a Cracker Jacks box, where did you get yours?

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]That’s right,Arraya. I am not saying there is not a genetic contributor to this TYPE of behavior. The comment being made by other posters require data specific to the claims they are making. Specifically that there is a gene for alcoholism.[/quote]

If you’re not saying that there’s not a genetic contributor to this type of behavior, then we don’t disagree. But then you get slippery and talk about “other posters” and the claims they are making. Are you debating me with that comment or not? Because no claim that I’ve made requires data saying that “there is a gene for alcoholism.” I’m saying that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism and that if you have many of the genes that contribute to alcoholism , then, given a poor environment, you are more likely to be an alcoholic than if you don’t have many of those genes. And those same genes can also contribute to other addictive behaviors. So if you want to say that there are genes that contribute to addictive behaviors, of which alcoholism is one, then we’d agree.

[quote=Rustico]I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. Alcoholism is a combination of a significantly poor environment interfering with mental standard that enforce proper self care, bad education on the topic, and chemistry. I agree it is very dangerous to conflate the problem by espousing that it is of a genetic origin specific to large numbers of people but not others.[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean by “mental standard that enforce proper self care,” but it seems like you start this paragraph by saying that we are wired for consumption problems indicating, correct me if I’m wrong, you think there’s a genetic component. And then you describe alcoholism as caused by strictly environmental factors. Please clarify.

[quote=Rustico]
To the other participants,
Please no more anectdotal stories about your brother, or uncle of whatever. I can elaborate on stronger anectdotal stories defending the counter point on genetics, but until that dna hits a centifuge or whatever the technology is it isn’t the proper kind of data to make proclamations in the field of genetics. “Professional” research documented in studies of questionable methods, that are incapable of getting repeatable results, which are full of disclaimers in the footnotes that render that inconclusive… are not representative of what passes for proof in this day. Please look more closely at the evidence.[/quote]

Pretty sure that doesn’t apply to any of my arguments, but if you think it does, let me know.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]That’s right,Arraya. I am not saying there is not a genetic contributor to this TYPE of behavior. The comment being made by other posters require data specific to the claims they are making. Specifically that there is a gene for alcoholism.[/quote]

If you’re not saying that there’s not a genetic contributor to this type of behavior, then we don’t disagree. But then you get slippery and talk about “other posters” and the claims they are making. Are you debating me with that comment or not? Because no claim that I’ve made requires data saying that “there is a gene for alcoholism.” I’m saying that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism and that if you have many of the genes that contribute to alcoholism , then, given a poor environment, you are more likely to be an alcoholic than if you don’t have many of those genes. And those same genes can also contribute to other addictive behaviors. So if you want to say that there are genes that contribute to addictive behaviors, of which alcoholism is one, then we’d agree.

[quote=Rustico]I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. Alcoholism is a combination of a significantly poor environment interfering with mental standard that enforce proper self care, bad education on the topic, and chemistry. I agree it is very dangerous to conflate the problem by espousing that it is of a genetic origin specific to large numbers of people but not others.[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean by “mental standard that enforce proper self care,” but it seems like you start this paragraph by saying that we are wired for consumption problems indicating, correct me if I’m wrong, you think there’s a genetic component. And then you describe alcoholism as caused by strictly environmental factors. Please clarify.

[quote=Rustico]
To the other participants,
Please no more anectdotal stories about your brother, or uncle of whatever. I can elaborate on stronger anectdotal stories defending the counter point on genetics, but until that dna hits a centifuge or whatever the technology is it isn’t the proper kind of data to make proclamations in the field of genetics. “Professional” research documented in studies of questionable methods, that are incapable of getting repeatable results, which are full of disclaimers in the footnotes that render that inconclusive… are not representative of what passes for proof in this day. Please look more closely at the evidence.[/quote]

Pretty sure that doesn’t apply to any of my arguments, but if you think it does, let me know.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]That’s right,Arraya. I am not saying there is not a genetic contributor to this TYPE of behavior. The comment being made by other posters require data specific to the claims they are making. Specifically that there is a gene for alcoholism.[/quote]

If you’re not saying that there’s not a genetic contributor to this type of behavior, then we don’t disagree. But then you get slippery and talk about “other posters” and the claims they are making. Are you debating me with that comment or not? Because no claim that I’ve made requires data saying that “there is a gene for alcoholism.” I’m saying that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism and that if you have many of the genes that contribute to alcoholism , then, given a poor environment, you are more likely to be an alcoholic than if you don’t have many of those genes. And those same genes can also contribute to other addictive behaviors. So if you want to say that there are genes that contribute to addictive behaviors, of which alcoholism is one, then we’d agree.

[quote=Rustico]I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. Alcoholism is a combination of a significantly poor environment interfering with mental standard that enforce proper self care, bad education on the topic, and chemistry. I agree it is very dangerous to conflate the problem by espousing that it is of a genetic origin specific to large numbers of people but not others.[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean by “mental standard that enforce proper self care,” but it seems like you start this paragraph by saying that we are wired for consumption problems indicating, correct me if I’m wrong, you think there’s a genetic component. And then you describe alcoholism as caused by strictly environmental factors. Please clarify.

[quote=Rustico]
To the other participants,
Please no more anectdotal stories about your brother, or uncle of whatever. I can elaborate on stronger anectdotal stories defending the counter point on genetics, but until that dna hits a centifuge or whatever the technology is it isn’t the proper kind of data to make proclamations in the field of genetics. “Professional” research documented in studies of questionable methods, that are incapable of getting repeatable results, which are full of disclaimers in the footnotes that render that inconclusive… are not representative of what passes for proof in this day. Please look more closely at the evidence.[/quote]

Pretty sure that doesn’t apply to any of my arguments, but if you think it does, let me know.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]That’s right,Arraya. I am not saying there is not a genetic contributor to this TYPE of behavior. The comment being made by other posters require data specific to the claims they are making. Specifically that there is a gene for alcoholism.[/quote]

If you’re not saying that there’s not a genetic contributor to this type of behavior, then we don’t disagree. But then you get slippery and talk about “other posters” and the claims they are making. Are you debating me with that comment or not? Because no claim that I’ve made requires data saying that “there is a gene for alcoholism.” I’m saying that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism and that if you have many of the genes that contribute to alcoholism , then, given a poor environment, you are more likely to be an alcoholic than if you don’t have many of those genes. And those same genes can also contribute to other addictive behaviors. So if you want to say that there are genes that contribute to addictive behaviors, of which alcoholism is one, then we’d agree.

[quote=Rustico]I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. Alcoholism is a combination of a significantly poor environment interfering with mental standard that enforce proper self care, bad education on the topic, and chemistry. I agree it is very dangerous to conflate the problem by espousing that it is of a genetic origin specific to large numbers of people but not others.[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean by “mental standard that enforce proper self care,” but it seems like you start this paragraph by saying that we are wired for consumption problems indicating, correct me if I’m wrong, you think there’s a genetic component. And then you describe alcoholism as caused by strictly environmental factors. Please clarify.

[quote=Rustico]
To the other participants,
Please no more anectdotal stories about your brother, or uncle of whatever. I can elaborate on stronger anectdotal stories defending the counter point on genetics, but until that dna hits a centifuge or whatever the technology is it isn’t the proper kind of data to make proclamations in the field of genetics. “Professional” research documented in studies of questionable methods, that are incapable of getting repeatable results, which are full of disclaimers in the footnotes that render that inconclusive… are not representative of what passes for proof in this day. Please look more closely at the evidence.[/quote]

Pretty sure that doesn’t apply to any of my arguments, but if you think it does, let me know.

[zk]

[quote=Rustico]That’s right,Arraya. I am not saying there is not a genetic contributor to this TYPE of behavior. The comment being made by other posters require data specific to the claims they are making. Specifically that there is a gene for alcoholism.[/quote]

If you’re not saying that there’s not a genetic contributor to this type of behavior, then we don’t disagree. But then you get slippery and talk about “other posters” and the claims they are making. Are you debating me with that comment or not? Because no claim that I’ve made requires data saying that “there is a gene for alcoholism.” I’m saying that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism and that if you have many of the genes that contribute to alcoholism , then, given a poor environment, you are more likely to be an alcoholic than if you don’t have many of those genes. And those same genes can also contribute to other addictive behaviors. So if you want to say that there are genes that contribute to addictive behaviors, of which alcoholism is one, then we’d agree.

[quote=Rustico]I will go all in that we are all wired for consumption problems on some level and that there is not much variation in degree. I am not sure if this is genetic, pyschological or both, perhaps it is properly called “instinctual”. A vestigial survival device from prehistoric times. Alcoholism is a combination of a significantly poor environment interfering with mental standard that enforce proper self care, bad education on the topic, and chemistry. I agree it is very dangerous to conflate the problem by espousing that it is of a genetic origin specific to large numbers of people but not others.[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean by “mental standard that enforce proper self care,” but it seems like you start this paragraph by saying that we are wired for consumption problems indicating, correct me if I’m wrong, you think there’s a genetic component. And then you describe alcoholism as caused by strictly environmental factors. Please clarify.

[quote=Rustico]
To the other participants,
Please no more anectdotal stories about your brother, or uncle of whatever. I can elaborate on stronger anectdotal stories defending the counter point on genetics, but until that dna hits a centifuge or whatever the technology is it isn’t the proper kind of data to make proclamations in the field of genetics. “Professional” research documented in studies of questionable methods, that are incapable of getting repeatable results, which are full of disclaimers in the footnotes that render that inconclusive… are not representative of what passes for proof in this day. Please look more closely at the evidence.[/quote]

Pretty sure that doesn’t apply to any of my arguments, but if you think it does, let me know.

[zk]

Gotta go back to work, but here’s something to start you off. At the bottom are references to several studies indicating a genetic component to alcoholism.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm

[zk]

Gotta go back to work, but here’s something to start you off. At the bottom are references to several studies indicating a genetic component to alcoholism.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm

[zk]

Gotta go back to work, but here’s something to start you off. At the bottom are references to several studies indicating a genetic component to alcoholism.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm

[zk]

Gotta go back to work, but here’s something to start you off. At the bottom are references to several studies indicating a genetic component to alcoholism.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm

[Author]

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