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NotCranky.
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October 17, 2012 at 8:54 AM #752680October 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM #752681
bearishgurl
Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=bearishgurl]
College degrees which will not lead to employment are worthless, IMHO, unless the student is using them to get into grad school (ex: poly sci). )[/quote]
You never know if you’re going to get into grad school. There are no pre law requirements, so why not major in something like engineering or science just in case the grad plans don’t work? Plus, lawyers with poli sci degrees are a dime a dozen. Have something in your educational resume that is useful (nursing, engineering, accounting, etc.) Another choice is to double major – and one should have a job at the end . . .[/quote]
I agree about having a “plan B” and that no one is guaranteed admission in grad school.
I only know ONE lawyer with an undergraduate degree in finance and ONE lawyer with an undergraduate degree in an engineering specialty. The vast majority that I know had more “generic” undergraduate degrees upon admission to law school. But they ALL went to college (in CA) at a time when public university fees were $300 – $800 per year and obviously didn’t take out student loans. Back then, students coming from all socioeconomic levels could “afford” (at least monetarily) to obtain a “nonessential, luxury degree” in “art history” at a public university, even if they never in their lives worked in their field of major or even worked at all!
With the current fee rate and continuous fee hikes nearly every semester over the last eight years, it is just plain folly to waste 4+++ years (due to inability to get 300-400 level classes when you need them) and tens of thousands of dollars on fees for such a degree today. And it is foolhardy bordering on disastrous to actually “borrow” in order to obtain such a degree, IMO.
Because of exorbitant costs and budget cuts in the UC and CSU systems, CA HS grads of today need to be completely realistic about their work prospects upon graduation before deciding on a major program of study. Unless they will be supported by a “trust fund” during their adult lives, the vast majority of young people today do not have the luxury of majoring in philosophy just because they’re interested in it. They’re young enough to develop a “passion” for a field of study that will lead to viable employment that pays enough to support themselves. Women students should ALSO expect to support themselves throughout their lives, taking paid maternity leaves.
The days of partying and (purposely) flunking out of college (on a parent’s dime) or attending only to work on a “MRS degree” are long gone.
Obtaining admission to college, staying in for the duration AND earning a bachelor degree and paying for all of of it is serious business now.
October 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM #752683
CoronitaParticipantI think the best strategy to making your kids have a good future is to create a trust fund for them and teach them how not to piss that fund away and how to legally protect if from Uncle Sam or any politician(s) that talks about redistributing it.
Because if it’s not obvious to a lot of folks, it should be pretty obvious right now…Everyone else (companies, politicians, unions, banks,etc) is putting on their best show to try to separate you and your family from you money as much as possible.
I do care about how well my kid does in school, but I’ve given up trying to make heads and tails out of the API school rankings. Schools teach only to the extent of passing tests these days. Better school districts will try to separate kids into respective capabilities to some extent (CarmelV does this a bit). But even then, it has limitations. You can spend money to send your kids to enrichment (which I do), and that sort of helps (at least for language/reading/writing/math). But the majority of the difference lies in what the parent does (or does not do).
I have friends who work with their kids all the time, and naturally they are high achievers. I have my own time/resources limitations right now, so there’s only so much I can do….That’s the fact of life…There’s no such thing as an even playing field…deal with it…
As far as people pursuing their dreams…Yes, I think they should…to the extent that it’s financially possible. Either kid is willing to being starving in pursuit of dream, kid is willing to double up just in case it doesn’t pan out, or kid’s parents are willing to support kid pursuit dreams financially.
October 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM #752684CoronitaParticipant[quote=dumbrenter]Nothing wrong with spending time to get a degree that does not lead to any employment as long as there is no debt involved.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with getting into debt, as long as one doesn’t blame everyone else for being in debt afterwards.
October 17, 2012 at 10:08 AM #752685Participantflu, if you have the resources to create a trust fund for your kid(s), then I would suggest staggering payments if it will include lump-sum payments. Perhaps some at age 21, some at 25 and some at 30, etc.
The vast majority of “kids” at ALL these ages are too immature to handle large sums of money to make it last and could easily end up broke and even addicted to drugs. And if their sights are set on big ticket items (house/condo, vehicle) they will still need a lot of “direction” so as not to get ripped off (make good decisions). “Socioeconomic level” has nothing to do with this. If anything, the kids who grew up at a higher socioeconomic level will more likely fall prey to societal ills, mooching partners and even swindlers, simply due to having more money at their disposal.
It’s one thing to talk to a 16-year old about how much things cost and quite another for an 18 or 21 year-old to have a $275,000 check in their hand, made out to them :=0
October 17, 2012 at 10:14 AM #752688Participant[quote=flu][quote=dumbrenter]Nothing wrong with spending time to get a degree that does not lead to any employment as long as there is no debt involved.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with getting into debt, as long as one doesn’t blame everyone else for being in debt afterwards.[/quote]
flu, you should see all the sites out there where former students are lobbying Congress heavily for student-loan “debt relief.” It seems most of them feel they are “entitled” to a free or low-cost education “after the fact” on the GOV’s dime while those who couldn’t afford a university education and so didn’t get themselves into debt don’t have a bachelor degree and so can’t compete with all these “debtors” for most of the job openings out there.
Many student-loan debtors, of all ages, it seems, want to have their cake and eat it, too.
October 17, 2012 at 10:34 AM #752690CoronitaParticipantdup post.
October 17, 2012 at 11:29 AM #752691dumbrenter
Participant[quote=flu][quote=dumbrenter]Nothing wrong with spending time to get a degree that does not lead to any employment as long as there is no debt involved.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with getting into debt, as long as one doesn’t blame everyone else for being in debt afterwards.[/quote]
Not true..that debt is backstopped by the federal govt and ultimately me. I’d rather pay for someone to be an engineer/doctor/nurse and take a loss as a taxpayer than pay for someone to be an art historian or a linguist of a non-existent language.
October 17, 2012 at 11:36 AM #752692NotCranky
Participant[quote=flu]
I do care about how well my kid does in school, but I’ve given up trying to make heads and tails out of the API school rankings. Schools teach only to the extent of passing tests these days. Better school districts will try to separate kids into respective capabilities to some extent (CarmelV does this a bit). But even then, it has limitations. You can spend money to send your kids to enrichment (which I do), and that sort of helps (at least for language/reading/writing/math). But the majority of the difference lies in what the parent does (or does not do).
I have friends who work with their kids all the time, and naturally they are high achievers. I have my own time/resources limitations right now, so there’s only so much I can do….That’s the fact of life…There’s no such thing as an even playing field…deal with it…
[/quote]
It’s not a even playing field but it can be tilted towards that.
I have a friend who is a handy man. His wife,who is not really what you would call bi-literate, helped their oldest son go from ESL anchor baby to
a nice degree in something like bio-mechanical engineering. Nice kid too, a young man that anyone would be glad to hire.October 17, 2012 at 11:45 AM #752693enron_by_the_sea
Participant[quote=flu]
I have friends who work with their kids all the time, and naturally they are high achievers. I have my own time/resources limitations right now, so there’s only so much I can do….That’s the fact of life…There’s no such thing as an even playing field…deal with it…
[/quote]
flu,
French recognize this injustice and are working to level the playing field between parents who work with their children and parents who don’t 🙂
[quote]
French President François Hollande has said he will end homework as part of a series of reforms to overhaul the country’s education system.And the reason he wants to ban homework?
He doesn’t think it is fair that some kids get help from their parents at home while children who come from disadvantaged families don’t. It’s an issue that goes well beyond France, and has been part of the reason that some Americans oppose homework too.
[/quote]October 17, 2012 at 11:58 AM #752694ParticipantBG, I am with you that college is not for everybody. A big part of the problem is that we have so many people going to college that don’t belong there and will do massive amounts of credits that are not necessary or even applicable to their own betterment or that of society. And the cost for that is too high in many ways.
I believe all kids are born with a good work ethic. However their work ethics are not equally applicable to anything we might choose or expect for them. Some have more of an academic work ethic and others more of a physical work ethic and there is usually a blend.
I have one kid very on the academic side and two that have a heavier blend of physical. They are smart too, doing well with language acquisition and are above average. Could very well be college material, but you won’t see me trying to fit square pegs in round holes! It’s tough because no parent wants their child to be dependent on physical work to make a living. Some middle ground can be sought. I know lots of people think that this thinking is “low brow” …oh well.
I think a lot of parental snobbery kills work ethic. This may be the case with some of the people who end up living in their parents basements, like UCgal mentioned.
October 17, 2012 at 1:46 PM #752716CoronitaParticipant[quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu]
I have friends who work with their kids all the time, and naturally they are high achievers. I have my own time/resources limitations right now, so there’s only so much I can do….That’s the fact of life…There’s no such thing as an even playing field…deal with it…
[/quote]
flu,
French recognize this injustice and are working to level the playing field between parents who work with their children and parents who don’t 🙂
[quote]
French President François Hollande has said he will end homework as part of a series of reforms to overhaul the country’s education system.And the reason he wants to ban homework?
He doesn’t think it is fair that some kids get help from their parents at home while children who come from disadvantaged families don’t. It’s an issue that goes well beyond France, and has been part of the reason that some Americans oppose homework too.
[/quote][/quote]Actually, in CarmelV, in some grades, homework is already optional…Interesting eh?
October 18, 2012 at 7:44 AM #752768ParticipantI don’t know about the optional homework. I just see it as the teachers giving more to the student whose families want more. It is sort of how every kid doesn’t get taught down to the lowest and slowest learner or even to the average.
My kid’s teachers do this very thoughtfully, and in conjunction with our input. Hats off to them.
Try it with your public school teachers if you aren’t already. I guarantee you ,they will work with you.Sometimes you have to be pushy, we even put what we wanted in writing at one point. We wanted our kid to stop taking AR tests in English and do them in Spanish and nothing was happening so, I emailed Principal,VP and teacher. She was a great teacher but was just having a very understandable hard time juggling the class.
It’s worth it. Obvious there are boundaries…just don’t try to take over the whole class.
October 18, 2012 at 7:49 AM #752769ParticipantO.k. so this topic got into my OCD wiring.
One thought:
What ever happened to the once commonly heard expression about kids,”just raise them right and they will be fine”? Seems like it applied across class lines.
I only hear that from old people now. I guess we probably don’t agree much on what “raising them right” means anymore? Times were simpler.
October 18, 2012 at 7:51 AM #752771scaredyclassic
Participanteverything is probably not going to be fine for most people.
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