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Jazzman.
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July 24, 2009 at 12:08 AM #436811July 24, 2009 at 4:09 AM #436055
4plexowner
Participant“we tend to spend a great deal of money on people that won’t get better or are gonna die soon anyway”
too true – there is no expectation that people will take personal responsibility for their own health in this country
need a 4-way bypass operation? going to continue smoking? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you and even do another heart surgery if you need it
need treatment for your gout and diabetes? going to continue eating like a pig and not exercising? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you until you die or we have amputated all your body parts
~
at some point we have to say to people receiving tax-payer provided health care, “look, it is your lifestyle causing these health issues – we are going to fix you up this time, but if you don’t change your ways there won’t be any follow up care or additional treatment”
one of the challenges with this approach to health care is that America has let compassion overcome common sense – we think that everyone deserves cutting-edge health care – even the 300 lb smoker whose only exercise is walking from the couch to the kitchen
July 24, 2009 at 4:09 AM #436261Participant“we tend to spend a great deal of money on people that won’t get better or are gonna die soon anyway”
too true – there is no expectation that people will take personal responsibility for their own health in this country
need a 4-way bypass operation? going to continue smoking? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you and even do another heart surgery if you need it
need treatment for your gout and diabetes? going to continue eating like a pig and not exercising? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you until you die or we have amputated all your body parts
~
at some point we have to say to people receiving tax-payer provided health care, “look, it is your lifestyle causing these health issues – we are going to fix you up this time, but if you don’t change your ways there won’t be any follow up care or additional treatment”
one of the challenges with this approach to health care is that America has let compassion overcome common sense – we think that everyone deserves cutting-edge health care – even the 300 lb smoker whose only exercise is walking from the couch to the kitchen
July 24, 2009 at 4:09 AM #436582Participant“we tend to spend a great deal of money on people that won’t get better or are gonna die soon anyway”
too true – there is no expectation that people will take personal responsibility for their own health in this country
need a 4-way bypass operation? going to continue smoking? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you and even do another heart surgery if you need it
need treatment for your gout and diabetes? going to continue eating like a pig and not exercising? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you until you die or we have amputated all your body parts
~
at some point we have to say to people receiving tax-payer provided health care, “look, it is your lifestyle causing these health issues – we are going to fix you up this time, but if you don’t change your ways there won’t be any follow up care or additional treatment”
one of the challenges with this approach to health care is that America has let compassion overcome common sense – we think that everyone deserves cutting-edge health care – even the 300 lb smoker whose only exercise is walking from the couch to the kitchen
July 24, 2009 at 4:09 AM #436655Participant“we tend to spend a great deal of money on people that won’t get better or are gonna die soon anyway”
too true – there is no expectation that people will take personal responsibility for their own health in this country
need a 4-way bypass operation? going to continue smoking? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you and even do another heart surgery if you need it
need treatment for your gout and diabetes? going to continue eating like a pig and not exercising? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you until you die or we have amputated all your body parts
~
at some point we have to say to people receiving tax-payer provided health care, “look, it is your lifestyle causing these health issues – we are going to fix you up this time, but if you don’t change your ways there won’t be any follow up care or additional treatment”
one of the challenges with this approach to health care is that America has let compassion overcome common sense – we think that everyone deserves cutting-edge health care – even the 300 lb smoker whose only exercise is walking from the couch to the kitchen
July 24, 2009 at 4:09 AM #436821Participant“we tend to spend a great deal of money on people that won’t get better or are gonna die soon anyway”
too true – there is no expectation that people will take personal responsibility for their own health in this country
need a 4-way bypass operation? going to continue smoking? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you and even do another heart surgery if you need it
need treatment for your gout and diabetes? going to continue eating like a pig and not exercising? oh well, that’s OK, we’ll keep taking care of you until you die or we have amputated all your body parts
~
at some point we have to say to people receiving tax-payer provided health care, “look, it is your lifestyle causing these health issues – we are going to fix you up this time, but if you don’t change your ways there won’t be any follow up care or additional treatment”
one of the challenges with this approach to health care is that America has let compassion overcome common sense – we think that everyone deserves cutting-edge health care – even the 300 lb smoker whose only exercise is walking from the couch to the kitchen
July 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM #436130Zeitgeist
ParticipantWill Obama care limit the number of children people have or require marriage? Pregnancies are expensive and so are large numbers of children. Will he limit the number of children that the WOP’s have? Where do you draw the line, especially those of you who support his policies?
July 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM #436337ParticipantWill Obama care limit the number of children people have or require marriage? Pregnancies are expensive and so are large numbers of children. Will he limit the number of children that the WOP’s have? Where do you draw the line, especially those of you who support his policies?
July 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM #436656ParticipantWill Obama care limit the number of children people have or require marriage? Pregnancies are expensive and so are large numbers of children. Will he limit the number of children that the WOP’s have? Where do you draw the line, especially those of you who support his policies?
July 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM #436729ParticipantWill Obama care limit the number of children people have or require marriage? Pregnancies are expensive and so are large numbers of children. Will he limit the number of children that the WOP’s have? Where do you draw the line, especially those of you who support his policies?
July 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM #436895ParticipantWill Obama care limit the number of children people have or require marriage? Pregnancies are expensive and so are large numbers of children. Will he limit the number of children that the WOP’s have? Where do you draw the line, especially those of you who support his policies?
July 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM #436150Rt.66
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=AN]
What is it about the Austrian health care system that make it FAR superior to ours? Please explain.[/quote]
One example would be my mom’s best friend who had to have hip replacement surgery. In Austria, she got the surgery and had a longer hospital stay than U.S. counterparts (a good thing, no matter what they try to tell us), then was sent to a rehab facility (again, an in-patient facility) that is more like a spa, with special pools and massage therapies, etc. Essentially, they believe in a more holistic approach; and rather than send someone home the same day or day after a major procedure, they actually try to **heal** the patient, and make sure they are able to take care of themselves at home. We do no such thing here.
Another benefit of socialized medicine is that people can move freely between employers and careers. For example, my husband and I would like to start a business, but can’t because we’d lose the health benefits provided by his current employer. Socialized medicine would allow labor to move where it is most effective, and would enable our employers to be more competitive with foreign employers who do not have the burden of insuring their employees and the related “legacy costs.”
One more thing… A for-profit healthcare system is only profitable when people are sick. There is no incentive to **cure** people, only to “treat” them with expensive medicines and procedures. Ideally, from the perspective of a for-profit healthcare provider, the perfect patient is one who is chronically ill and requires medicine and treatments for an entire lifetime.
A socialized system has an incentive to **cure,** because the entire goal of socialized medicine is to make people healthy, irrespective of any other (profit) considerations.
———————
More general statements about their socialized government:
The Austrians pay about the same amount in taxes that we do, and get 12-18 months **paid** maternity leave (combination of govt/employer-paid, with one year full pay and 6 months half pay, IIRC).
They get very effective healthcare which will not bankrupt them.
They also get a pension when they retire.
They do not have the disparate levels of wealth that we have, and, generally-speaking, everyone is taken care of. Certainly nobody can take issue with the German or Austrian work ethic, either. The whole boogeyman of “everyone will be lazy” is nonsense.[/quote]
Good post! Lot’s of wisdom there.
So far 2.4 million people have lost their health benefits during this depression (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html?). Now the tax payers will pick up the tab for their needs if they become ill (after they are finacially ruined and forced into BK). Sounds like a really dumb version of NHC?
July 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM #436357Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=AN]
What is it about the Austrian health care system that make it FAR superior to ours? Please explain.[/quote]
One example would be my mom’s best friend who had to have hip replacement surgery. In Austria, she got the surgery and had a longer hospital stay than U.S. counterparts (a good thing, no matter what they try to tell us), then was sent to a rehab facility (again, an in-patient facility) that is more like a spa, with special pools and massage therapies, etc. Essentially, they believe in a more holistic approach; and rather than send someone home the same day or day after a major procedure, they actually try to **heal** the patient, and make sure they are able to take care of themselves at home. We do no such thing here.
Another benefit of socialized medicine is that people can move freely between employers and careers. For example, my husband and I would like to start a business, but can’t because we’d lose the health benefits provided by his current employer. Socialized medicine would allow labor to move where it is most effective, and would enable our employers to be more competitive with foreign employers who do not have the burden of insuring their employees and the related “legacy costs.”
One more thing… A for-profit healthcare system is only profitable when people are sick. There is no incentive to **cure** people, only to “treat” them with expensive medicines and procedures. Ideally, from the perspective of a for-profit healthcare provider, the perfect patient is one who is chronically ill and requires medicine and treatments for an entire lifetime.
A socialized system has an incentive to **cure,** because the entire goal of socialized medicine is to make people healthy, irrespective of any other (profit) considerations.
———————
More general statements about their socialized government:
The Austrians pay about the same amount in taxes that we do, and get 12-18 months **paid** maternity leave (combination of govt/employer-paid, with one year full pay and 6 months half pay, IIRC).
They get very effective healthcare which will not bankrupt them.
They also get a pension when they retire.
They do not have the disparate levels of wealth that we have, and, generally-speaking, everyone is taken care of. Certainly nobody can take issue with the German or Austrian work ethic, either. The whole boogeyman of “everyone will be lazy” is nonsense.[/quote]
Good post! Lot’s of wisdom there.
So far 2.4 million people have lost their health benefits during this depression (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html?). Now the tax payers will pick up the tab for their needs if they become ill (after they are finacially ruined and forced into BK). Sounds like a really dumb version of NHC?
July 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM #436676Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=AN]
What is it about the Austrian health care system that make it FAR superior to ours? Please explain.[/quote]
One example would be my mom’s best friend who had to have hip replacement surgery. In Austria, she got the surgery and had a longer hospital stay than U.S. counterparts (a good thing, no matter what they try to tell us), then was sent to a rehab facility (again, an in-patient facility) that is more like a spa, with special pools and massage therapies, etc. Essentially, they believe in a more holistic approach; and rather than send someone home the same day or day after a major procedure, they actually try to **heal** the patient, and make sure they are able to take care of themselves at home. We do no such thing here.
Another benefit of socialized medicine is that people can move freely between employers and careers. For example, my husband and I would like to start a business, but can’t because we’d lose the health benefits provided by his current employer. Socialized medicine would allow labor to move where it is most effective, and would enable our employers to be more competitive with foreign employers who do not have the burden of insuring their employees and the related “legacy costs.”
One more thing… A for-profit healthcare system is only profitable when people are sick. There is no incentive to **cure** people, only to “treat” them with expensive medicines and procedures. Ideally, from the perspective of a for-profit healthcare provider, the perfect patient is one who is chronically ill and requires medicine and treatments for an entire lifetime.
A socialized system has an incentive to **cure,** because the entire goal of socialized medicine is to make people healthy, irrespective of any other (profit) considerations.
———————
More general statements about their socialized government:
The Austrians pay about the same amount in taxes that we do, and get 12-18 months **paid** maternity leave (combination of govt/employer-paid, with one year full pay and 6 months half pay, IIRC).
They get very effective healthcare which will not bankrupt them.
They also get a pension when they retire.
They do not have the disparate levels of wealth that we have, and, generally-speaking, everyone is taken care of. Certainly nobody can take issue with the German or Austrian work ethic, either. The whole boogeyman of “everyone will be lazy” is nonsense.[/quote]
Good post! Lot’s of wisdom there.
So far 2.4 million people have lost their health benefits during this depression (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html?). Now the tax payers will pick up the tab for their needs if they become ill (after they are finacially ruined and forced into BK). Sounds like a really dumb version of NHC?
July 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM #436749Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=AN]
What is it about the Austrian health care system that make it FAR superior to ours? Please explain.[/quote]
One example would be my mom’s best friend who had to have hip replacement surgery. In Austria, she got the surgery and had a longer hospital stay than U.S. counterparts (a good thing, no matter what they try to tell us), then was sent to a rehab facility (again, an in-patient facility) that is more like a spa, with special pools and massage therapies, etc. Essentially, they believe in a more holistic approach; and rather than send someone home the same day or day after a major procedure, they actually try to **heal** the patient, and make sure they are able to take care of themselves at home. We do no such thing here.
Another benefit of socialized medicine is that people can move freely between employers and careers. For example, my husband and I would like to start a business, but can’t because we’d lose the health benefits provided by his current employer. Socialized medicine would allow labor to move where it is most effective, and would enable our employers to be more competitive with foreign employers who do not have the burden of insuring their employees and the related “legacy costs.”
One more thing… A for-profit healthcare system is only profitable when people are sick. There is no incentive to **cure** people, only to “treat” them with expensive medicines and procedures. Ideally, from the perspective of a for-profit healthcare provider, the perfect patient is one who is chronically ill and requires medicine and treatments for an entire lifetime.
A socialized system has an incentive to **cure,** because the entire goal of socialized medicine is to make people healthy, irrespective of any other (profit) considerations.
———————
More general statements about their socialized government:
The Austrians pay about the same amount in taxes that we do, and get 12-18 months **paid** maternity leave (combination of govt/employer-paid, with one year full pay and 6 months half pay, IIRC).
They get very effective healthcare which will not bankrupt them.
They also get a pension when they retire.
They do not have the disparate levels of wealth that we have, and, generally-speaking, everyone is taken care of. Certainly nobody can take issue with the German or Austrian work ethic, either. The whole boogeyman of “everyone will be lazy” is nonsense.[/quote]
Good post! Lot’s of wisdom there.
So far 2.4 million people have lost their health benefits during this depression (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html?). Now the tax payers will pick up the tab for their needs if they become ill (after they are finacially ruined and forced into BK). Sounds like a really dumb version of NHC?
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