Nationswide protests-will they spread?

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]Let’s look at toxic credit, jstoesz.

Why not ban banks from providing automatic overdraft protection. How is that to people’s benefit to be given the “benefit” of charging a $2 cup of coffee while paying a $10 bank fee for the privilege?

The banks should simple decline transactions over the limit. The consumer doesn’t buy the product and is better off.

How it is beneficial to allow banks to charge exorbitant fees while encouraging Americans to get further and further into debt?[/quote]

Because there are disorganized people in this world that really do want overdraft protection, because bouncing a check is more than $10…It’s more like $25-30 return check fee, and a blackmark about writing a bad check…People can always opt-out of overdraft protection if they so choose, but it’s there because it’s a service. If people don’t want to use the service and use the terms of the service, than opt out…

This is ridiculous…By this logic, we should ban cell phone companies from charging $50-90/month for data services in order to get a subsidized iphone….

Same could be said for those ATM fees… If you don’t want to be charged for an ATM usage, than carry cash or credit card…..or switch banks to one that doesn’t charge a fee and treats customers better. I love charles schwab. Because i can get cash out of any atm and they reimburse all the fees, even overseas…. And Schwab is the perfect example of what happens when you treat customers right….A couple years ago, when they were run by David S. Pottruck, customer service was dismal, and they really ticked me off to the point I was really close to leaving. When Schwab took over, customer service was back…And I have to say, it was a welcome change….Walter W. Bettinger is alright.

[Coronita]

And as I said, how is this NOT class warfare?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/occupy-movement-coming-encinitas/

An Encinitas version, called Occupy North County, is scheduled to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday at Encinitas Boulevard and Coast Highway 101. For more information on that event, go to Facebook.com and search for Occupy North County.

The overall movement’s slogan is “We are the 99,” as a reference to the discrepancy of wealth between the top 1 percent of wage earners in the country compared to the rest. The demonstrators are demanding financial reform that deals with rising student loan debt, high unemployment, and tax rates.

…Pssss. Careful sdrealtor…They are coming to get you…..Better not break out the bubblies and sip them fine bottles of wine on the rooftop while you watch the protesters…Otherwise they might paint you as a target….

[sdrealtor]

I’ll be in Maui. Let me know how it all turns out.

[NotCranky]

What exactly is wrong with class warfare FLU? Why should the rich guys go unchecked in their own campaign against the rest of America and the world.

My question about the people protesting is: Where was all their do-gooding when we were bombing the hell out of Iraq? Probably hoping we would get cheaper gas and an economy, maybe a welfare state that was a bit better than what they seem to be facing.

[svelte]

[quote=flu][quote=jpinpb][quote=svelte]Another thing that may happen: the participants may use the cold wet winter months to regroup and show up in the spring better organized with stated goals and demands. Heading into the election season, that is a very real possibility.[/quote]

I can see that happening. OWS seems pretty determined. Sure they’ll thin out in the winter. Everyone is counting on that. I can see government in general saying, “Eh, in a month it’ll be cold and they’ll be gone so let them protest while they can. It’ll be over soon.”

I can see them come back stronger in the spring. That may surprise some people.[/quote]

I disagree. By spring, our government would have already figured out how to turn back on the lax-credit-spigot (albeit for a short time)….What that will do allow people to spend on credit again…Dollars will start to flow again, and companies will raise guidance based on credit spending, which will cause companies to blow away dismal earning estimates that our wall street analysts have already set to be a lowered bar of a lowered bar, which in turn will cause the stock markets to rise (albeit temporary), which in turn will allow all these protesters that ironically have 401k, Roth, and IRA accounts that are very much heavily dependent on Wall Street to see those account values start to trickle up again…so that they can “feel” richer and can “feel” they can spend more (on credit of course)…….And that’s it…

Come on, do you really think people who are protesting against corporate greed, rich people’s excesses are really protesting FOR financial frugality??? Financial austerity is the last thing on people’s mind in this country.. Maybe a handful, but the majority…absolutely not…They just want the credit spigots to be turned on again….
[/quote]

Well I really think you’re wrong there. I don’t think they are there for turning on the spigot, or for financial frugality (are you thinking of the tea party on this one, maybe?). They just want a chance to earn a decent living and have a fair shake.

As to whether they’ll be back in the spring, we shall see. I never expected the Tea People to last this long, either.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal][quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Hogwash. Most of the richest people today do nothing to increase domestic production or create jobs.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_Forbes_400_(2010)

Funny, I found the facts that demonstrate how wrong you are on Google, using a Dell computer running a Microsoft OS.

Now I’m off to Wal Mart, where I can buy tonight’s dinner for my family for under $10…[/quote]

Hmmm – most of those companies haven’t added significantly to US jobs, once you account for acquisitions.
I just dove through the 10-k filings for 2009-2011 to see the employee head counts.

Microsoft has lost 2000 jobs in the US since end of FY2009

Google added just under 5000 jobs between FY2009 and FY2010 (10k for FY2011 not out yet). I assume some of the headcount is due to the acquisitions they made in that time frame. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Google)

Dell gained 24,400 employees between FY2009 and FY2011 – but 23,800 were from the acquisition of Perot. And when you do the math on domestic employees, they’ve “gained” 7000 employees domestically, but most of the Perot employees were domestic – so domestically they’ve shed jobs.
One more thing on Dell – if you look at their 2008 employment (88,200) and add in the Perot jobs, they’re down 8700 jobs.

Walmart has stayed flat domestically and internationally on employment for the past 3 years. 2.1M employees worldwide, 1.4 here in the US. And they talk of the high percentage of part time workers, and high turnover of employeees in their 10-K’s.

I wouldn’t hold those companies’ CEOs out as shining examples of rich CEOs hiring lots of US workers. The data doesn’t show it.

Company CEOs look at employee headcount as an expense. They don’t want to ADD expenses, they want to CUT expenses.[/quote]

Thank you, UCGal.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]And as I said, how is this NOT class warfare?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/occupy-movement-coming-encinitas/

An Encinitas version, called Occupy North County, is scheduled to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday at Encinitas Boulevard and Coast Highway 101. For more information on that event, go to Facebook.com and search for Occupy North County.

The overall movement’s slogan is “We are the 99,” as a reference to the discrepancy of wealth between the top 1 percent of wage earners in the country compared to the rest. The demonstrators are demanding financial reform that deals with rising student loan debt, high unemployment, and tax rates.

…Pssss. Careful sdrealtor…They are coming to get you…..Better not break out the bubblies and sip them fine bottles of wine on the rooftop while you watch the protesters…Otherwise they might paint you as a target….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY%5B/quote%5D

I have a better question. How is THIS not considered class warfare?

“Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the ’80s, ’90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

[Coronita]

[quote=Jacarandoso]What exactly is wrong with class warfare FLU? Why should the rich guys go unchecked in their own campaign against the rest of America and the world.

My question about the people protesting is: Where was all their do-gooding when we were bombing the hell out of Iraq? Probably hoping we would get cheaper gas and an economy, maybe a welfare state that was a bit better than what they seem to be facing.[/quote]

because fingerpointing is a political agenda…Everyone was to blame for the financial crisis…Banks wrote shoddy loans…But obviously there was a market for them because people wanted them…

Anyone who wants to rail against wall street probably should come clean and boycott all their dependencies on “wall street products”…no different than if one really is so anti-china, to boycott products from china…Boycott your 401k, IRA, Roth IRA’s, stocks, bonds, derivatives are all a product of Wall Street more or less…And boycott big bank and move to a local one (preferably one that is still solvent)….

[The-Shoveler]

Ultimately I think this becomes a compensation protest.
Maybe 15 dollar minimum wage with some better retirement plan ?
(maybe EVERYONE !! joins Calpers).

[Coronita]

Seems to me, americans are doing just fine…

Retail sales rose strongly in September on autos
Retail sales increased 1.1 pct. in September, largest gain in 7 months led by auto sales

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Retail-sales-rose-strongly-in-apf-2879028849.html;_ylt=AshF_YFuEiHy_eLdzoHjdvO7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1dDFsYjQ2BHBvcwM0BHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNjb25zdW1lcnNzaGU-?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=

[jstoesz]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu]And as I said, how is this NOT class warfare?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/occupy-movement-coming-encinitas/

An Encinitas version, called Occupy North County, is scheduled to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday at Encinitas Boulevard and Coast Highway 101. For more information on that event, go to Facebook.com and search for Occupy North County.

The overall movement’s slogan is “We are the 99,” as a reference to the discrepancy of wealth between the top 1 percent of wage earners in the country compared to the rest. The demonstrators are demanding financial reform that deals with rising student loan debt, high unemployment, and tax rates.

…Pssss. Careful sdrealtor…They are coming to get you…..Better not break out the bubblies and sip them fine bottles of wine on the rooftop while you watch the protesters…Otherwise they might paint you as a target….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY%5B/quote%5D

I have a better question. How is THIS not considered class warfare?

“Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the ’80s, ’90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html%5B/quote%5D

You just quoted a SOCIOLOGY professor from UCSC.

[NotCranky]

[quote=flu][quote=Jacarandoso]What exactly is wrong with class warfare FLU? Why should the rich guys go unchecked in their own campaign against the rest of America and the world.

My question about the people protesting is: Where was all their do-gooding when we were bombing the hell out of Iraq? Probably hoping we would get cheaper gas and an economy, maybe a welfare state that was a bit better than what they seem to be facing.[/quote]

because fingerpointing is a political agenda…Everyone was to blame for the financial crisis…Banks wrote shoddy loans…But obviously there was a market for them because people wanted them…

Anyone who wants to rail against wall street probably should come clean and boycott all their dependencies on “wall street products”…no different than if one really is so anti-china, to boycott products from china…Boycott your 401k, IRA, Roth IRA’s, stocks, bonds, derivatives are all a product of Wall Street more or less…And boycott big bank and move to a local one (preferably one that is still solvent)….[/quote]

I agree that there is a lot of sour grapes, hypocrisy and begging going on in all of this. Certainly, it is political. Still, it’s very unreasonable and unfair to expect people to be quiet unless they opt out of the system and cultural aspects of it entirely. Everybody should have a right to argue for their definition of what a just society is.

[Arraya]

[quote=Jacarandoso]My question about the people protesting is: Where was all their do-gooding when we were bombing the hell out of Iraq? Probably hoping we would get cheaper gas and an economy, maybe a welfare state that was a bit better than what they seem to be facing.[/quote]

Well, having been to 3 occupy protests by pure happenstance I would say most of them were in Junior high when we were “bombing the hell out of Iraq” while the others were probably in one of the many uncovered war protests at the time.

[Coronita]

delete

[Arraya]

[quote=Jacarandoso][quote=flu][quote=Jacarandoso]What exactly is wrong with class warfare FLU? Why should the rich guys go unchecked in their own campaign against the rest of America and the world.

My question about the people protesting is: Where was all their do-gooding when we were bombing the hell out of Iraq? Probably hoping we would get cheaper gas and an economy, maybe a welfare state that was a bit better than what they seem to be facing.[/quote]

because fingerpointing is a political agenda…Everyone was to blame for the financial crisis…Banks wrote shoddy loans…But obviously there was a market for them because people wanted them…

Anyone who wants to rail against wall street probably should come clean and boycott all their dependencies on “wall street products”…no different than if one really is so anti-china, to boycott products from china…Boycott your 401k, IRA, Roth IRA’s, stocks, bonds, derivatives are all a product of Wall Street more or less…And boycott big bank and move to a local one (preferably one that is still solvent)….[/quote]

I agree that there is a lot of sour grapes, hypocrisy and begging going on in all of this. Certainly, it is political. Still, it’s very unreasonable and unfair to expect people to be quiet unless they opt out of the system and cultural aspects of it entirely. Everybody should have a right to argue for their definition of what a just society is.[/quote]

The cause of the crisis is the capitalist world system itself. Which is where all fingers should be pointed. The extremely bad, irrational, corrupt and violent behavior by the elite is because they serve a system of endless capital accumulation. It’s like some kind of acceptable psychotic delusion. The have to keep feeding this system or it will collapse. Their behavior will only get more erratic and dangerous as time goes on. Their paranoia and decaying mental faculties is palpable – which is a hallmark of all societies in decay.

[Author]

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