More on public pensions and the economy

[bearishgurl]

[quote=briansd1][quote=bearishgurl]

One is not eligible for Medicare until they are 65 years old. If the worker was “put out to pasture” at 55 with a gold watch and a party (in favor of a 23 yo), what do you expect them to do for healthcare in the intervening ten years, brian?[/quote]

Get another job, like everyone else? Or pay premiums out of pocket? Or don’t get sick. Or get medical in Mexico. Like everyone else.[/quote]

Lots of retirees are currently doing one or more of those things, brian. The point I was trying to make is that MANY CA gov’t workers were “retired” involuntarily. Their positions were actually riffed in budget cuts or a new appointing authority came in with their own people surrounding them and thus the old mgrs and administrators of the former regime were replaced. This did NOT happen with line workers such as myself who were protected by civil service rules. But this happened to MANY at-will public workers who are undoubtedly now receiving the highest pensions.

[The-Shoveler]

Funny how history repeats
“grapes of wrath”

Go back to the dust bowl hell or Detroit or where ever you came from.

[briansd1]

[quote=bearishgurl]

I was simply showing here how the blame lies with the pols (and their lackey appointees) who carried out the votes and implementation for all the (unneeded) CFD’s and subdivision permits in the last decade-plus.

[/quote]

At least you didn’t blame the bankers.

Of course the pols created the problem, one way or another. Now they have to fix it within their means.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=briansd1][quote=bearishgurl]

One is not eligible for Medicare until they are 65 years old. If the worker was “put out to pasture” at 55 with a gold watch and a party (in favor of a 23 yo), what do you expect them to do for healthcare in the intervening ten years, brian?[/quote]

Get another job, like everyone else? Or pay premiums out of pocket? Or don’t get sick. Or get medical in Mexico. Like everyone else.[/quote]

I wish there was a button I could push to like this post.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler]Funny how history repeats
“grapes of wrath”

Go back to the dust bowl hell or Detroit or where ever you came from.[/quote]

You talkin’ to me, shoveler?

You mean … Cali … near Oakland? They’ve got the same “urban sprawl” problem within 15 miles of the city center, LOL. And nearby Vallejo got into fiscal hot water by pandering to developers in its infamously expensive “Mare-Island conversion project.”

It’s over 500 miles away but same story all ‘round. All was made possible by your (incompetent?) former Legislature:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mello-Roos

Never read the book, shoveler, but it’s on my kid’s reading list this year. Why don’t you ‘splain to the Piggs why you mentioned it?

[The-Shoveler]

No I was not referring to you BG, just the Idea about not wanting the great unwashed (under-educated) masses to feed the sprawl .
I guess we could put up a several hundred high rise condo’s in downtown SD area,
There’s room for that LOL.

Same kind of Idea in the 30’s, this was what the grapes of wrath was about.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler]… Same kind of Idea in the 30’s, this was what the grapes of wrath was about.[/quote]

I saw a kid reading the cliff’s notes of it on a stationary bike at the gym yesterday. I’ll have to check it out!

I like Dust Bowl stories. I have these two on CD!

[bearishgurl]

What many people may not be aware of is that CA public retirement systems do not actually fully fund the retiree’s monthly healthcare premium. They pay a monthly healthcare allowance to retirees of approx $200 – $350, depending on the retiree’s highest year’s gross pay and years of service. The actual cost of the premiums is much higher as they are priced at COBRA rates. For instance, SDCERA charges $619.11 to $975.01 mo for an HMO for the member only. A PPO costs $2,080.08 mo for the member only.

See: http://www.sdcera.org/retired_health_insurance_plans.htm

(load third link)

The member is free to take their monthly healthcare allowance into the open market and purchase healthcare coverage with it. Those that can qualify to be underwritten as a reasonable rate most certainly do this.

Obviously, if the separating employee under the age of 65 has pre-existing conditions or cannot otherwise qualify for a plan on the open market at a reasonable price, they take one of the plans offered by the assn and pay the difference in premium with their mo pension (IF their monthly pension is high enough to do this). The assns plans must accept all eligible retirees and their spouses/domestic partners, regardless of health.

Medicare supplements offered by the assn are only $213.99 to $365.16 per mo for the member only.

Thus, LA could likely put $200 – $350 mo for each existing retiree back into their general fund (IF it is they who are actually funding their retiree’s healthcare allowances) if they are able to legally remove the benefit.

[briansd1]

BG, maybe you should listen to the Grape of Wrath on CD on one of your car trips. I read it as a kid. We had many class discussions.

I think that it’s must read for everyone… but that might be part of the socialist agenda to brainwash the population.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=The-Shoveler]No I was not referring to you BG, just the Idea about not wanting the great unwashed (under-educated) masses to feed the sprawl .
I guess we could put up a several hundred high rise condo’s in downtown SD area,
There’s room for that LOL.

Same kind of Idea in the 30’s, this was what the grapes of wrath was about.[/quote]

It’s not the growth that causes the spending. It’s the government mindset that rationalizes any growth and increases into a mandatory need for more government. Double digit revenue growth is met by even larger double digit expenditures.

Same basic mindset as with LAFD that requires a fire truck team to be dispatched on every call even though 98% are medical only calls.

A city that isn’t growing and rejuvenating is a stagnant and dead city.

[briansd1]

[quote=no_such_reality]

Same basic mindset as with LAFD that requires a fire truck team to be dispatched on every call even though 98% are medical only calls.

A city that isn’t growing and rejuvenating is a stagnant and dead city.[/quote]

I agree.

Old folks on fixed income in a no-growth city won’t be paying the pay raises of public employees.

It’s kinda screwed to dispatch fire engines for medical calls. I’ve noticed that way too often.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
There is a much larger story here and it will have a catastrophic effect on unions, Big Labor and those city (Chicago, NYC, LA) and state (Illinois, California) “machines” that control votes, dispense patronage and provide significant GOTV muscle for the Democratic Party. You can certainly argue that demographic shifts are going to affect the Republican Party, especially the base, but what’s happening now across the country will have a similar destabilizing effect on the Dems, too.[/quote]

Interesting observations, Allan.

Yes, you could be right that weakening the unions will weaken the Democratic party because they won’t have the money to compete with corporate money.

Perhaps with the Internet, small contributions will make up the difference. But then Democrats would need candidates that excite the base like Obama did in 2008. That’s unlikely at the local level.

It could be that Republicans will win more seats at local and state levels. Maybe a good thing to fix the local pension problems.

But on national issues, demographics will trump all. Republican will eventually cave on social issues such as Gay marriage, abortion and immigration.

On ACA, Republicans have pledged to repeal it just out of spite. But they’ll backtrack on that as corporations will eventually see Obama Care as a way to hold down costs for the economy.

I’m with Nancy Pelosi on a Citizens United constitutional amendment. Otherwise, the country will be owned by corporations. And remember, corporations are neither conservative, nor liberal. They are for more sales and revenues for themselves.

In the end, White working-class folks are screwed. They sided with the wrong side, and they’ll suffer the consequences. They would most benefit from programs such as training, education and health care. Programs that would help them and their kids remain in the middle-class.

It will be interesting watching it all unfold. Time will tell…

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=no_such_reality]

Same basic mindset as with LAFD that requires a fire truck team to be dispatched on every call even though 98% are medical only calls.

A city that isn’t growing and rejuvenating is a stagnant and dead city.[/quote]

I agree.

Old folks on fixed income in a no-growth city won’t be paying the pay raises of public employees.

It’s kinda screwed to dispatch fire engines for medical calls. I’ve noticed that way too often.[/quote]

In many cases, the fire engines/trucks are dispatched because they can arrive on scene sooner. In many (most) departments, there are more trucks/engines than ambulances because when there’s a fire, they need all the trucks (and often bring trucks in from neighboring departments, too). They typically don’t need multiple ambulances all at once. If the ambulances are in a distant location or on other calls, the patients can be treated sooner; and in emergency services, response times are everything.

Anyway, the trucks/engines that you see dispatched to medical calls almost always have paramedics (that tends to be the requirement these days, though there might be some with older EMTs) and all the medical equipment. They can treat the patient sooner. The difference between an engine/truck and ambulance is that the truck can’t transport.

Additionally, most ambulances only have two employees on board (two paramedics or paramedic/EMT team). On many calls, they need additional personnel because one or two people might be working directly on the patient, another communicating with the hospital, another setting up equipment/medication, one to possibly deal with transport/helicopter landings, etc. (you don’t see this at the site, they almost always have to transport the patient to an off-site landing zone). Then, there are the 300++ pound patients who need to be carried down stairs or through narrow passageways, etc.

Believe it or not, the fire departments do know what they’re doing. Even though you might not understand what’s going on, it doesn’t mean that they’re wasting resources or taxpayers’ money.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1]In the end, White working-class folks are screwed. They sided with the wrong side, and they’ll suffer the consequences. They would most benefit from programs such as training, education and health care. Programs that would help them and their kids remain in the middle-class.

It will be interesting watching it all unfold. Time will tell…[/quote]

Not just “white” people, brian. YOU are a perfect example of someone who “sides with the wrong side.”

Labor vs. capital…nothing else matters.

[sdduuuude]

People tend to forget that Public Employee Unions are private organizations. Just like any government contractor trying to get as much out of the government as they possibly can.

[Author]

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