Mira Mesa dropping real fast, 10634 Kemerton Rd.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with you about the cash offers, but that’s not the case in today’s market. There is an abundant supply of cash buyers out there, according to newspaper reports, realtors, and based on our own experience. It’s to the point that cash buyers cannot really get much of a discount.[/quote]
That’s hard to believe since I’m seeing the opposite occurring. But I don’t have data to back up what I’m seeing, other than fixer closing MUCH lower than a comparable turn key home minus the cost of upgrades. I see that A LOT. But it’s anecdotal.

[quote=CA renter]In the transactions we were involved with, we didn’t care if it was a cash buyer or not, as long as they had 20% down; the final price was all that mattered…and that includes sales we made when the credit market was absolutely frozen. Now, it’s even easier.[/quote]
Did you turn down a higher offer with less than 20% down? You

[an]

[quote=DomoArigato][quote=AN]
You fail to see that a move in ready house attracts a lot more buyers, which would drive up the price. So, it’s simply about supply and demand. Although it might be the exact same house, the condition is different, which would attract different amount of interests.[/quote]

Supply and demand has nothing to do with the housing market. This is because the government is currently backing 97% of all mortgages. Remove that support and then we could talk about supply and demand (at much lower prices).

Here’s what I suspect is really happening. The banks can’t afford to put any money into their housing inventory because they don’t have any real money. All they have is an inflated mark on their balance sheet for each house. They are willing to sell their inventory at whatever price they can get because the government/taxpayers will cover their loss.

So the banks have a bunch of houses that can’t pass inspection and which they don’t want to put any money into. The banks are willing to sell at close to the real market price (i.e., what the house would sell for without the massive amount of govt/taxpayer support) to all-cash buyers who don’t have to worry about inspections.

The all-cash buyers then fix up the house so that it can pass inspection and then flip it back to the government via an FHA borrower who puts 3.5% down. The process then starts all over again with 50% of FHA FBs getting foreclosed upon within two years and the house going back to a bank.

So what we have is some type of massive, circular Ponzi scheme financed by the government/taxpayers that looks something like this:
bank-owned–>all-cash-buyer–>govt-backed-FB–>foreclosed-back-to-bank

The idea that there is this pool of frivolous borrowers out there who are waiting for the perfectly fixed up house is poppycock. The fact is that the government-backed FBs can’t get through the paperwork/inspections fast enough to beat the all-cash buyer. Further, the banks don’t care what price they get as the taxpayers are covering their losses.

It’s a huge shit sandwich and we are all taking a bite through continuous, forced taxpayer-financed bank bailouts.[/quote]
That’s EXACTLY what I mean by supply and demand. I don’t care why the bank didn’t fix up the house. The point is, they are not fixing it up. Fixers have less demand vs the same house in turn key condition. The larger the buyer pools = the more demand for the exact same house. There are people who don’t have cash/time to do remodel, there are people who won’t qualify for a loan to buy a fixer, there are people who just don’t like dealing with remodel. Those are people who would increase the buyers pool for turn key but reduce the buyer pool for the fixer.

[an]

[quote=DomoArigato][quote=AN]
You fail to see that a move in ready house attracts a lot more buyers, which would drive up the price. So, it’s simply about supply and demand. Although it might be the exact same house, the condition is different, which would attract different amount of interests.[/quote]

Supply and demand has nothing to do with the housing market. This is because the government is currently backing 97% of all mortgages. Remove that support and then we could talk about supply and demand (at much lower prices).

Here’s what I suspect is really happening. The banks can’t afford to put any money into their housing inventory because they don’t have any real money. All they have is an inflated mark on their balance sheet for each house. They are willing to sell their inventory at whatever price they can get because the government/taxpayers will cover their loss.

So the banks have a bunch of houses that can’t pass inspection and which they don’t want to put any money into. The banks are willing to sell at close to the real market price (i.e., what the house would sell for without the massive amount of govt/taxpayer support) to all-cash buyers who don’t have to worry about inspections.

The all-cash buyers then fix up the house so that it can pass inspection and then flip it back to the government via an FHA borrower who puts 3.5% down. The process then starts all over again with 50% of FHA FBs getting foreclosed upon within two years and the house going back to a bank.

So what we have is some type of massive, circular Ponzi scheme financed by the government/taxpayers that looks something like this:
bank-owned–>all-cash-buyer–>govt-backed-FB–>foreclosed-back-to-bank

The idea that there is this pool of frivolous borrowers out there who are waiting for the perfectly fixed up house is poppycock. The fact is that the government-backed FBs can’t get through the paperwork/inspections fast enough to beat the all-cash buyer. Further, the banks don’t care what price they get as the taxpayers are covering their losses.

It’s a huge shit sandwich and we are all taking a bite through continuous, forced taxpayer-financed bank bailouts.[/quote]
That’s EXACTLY what I mean by supply and demand. I don’t care why the bank didn’t fix up the house. The point is, they are not fixing it up. Fixers have less demand vs the same house in turn key condition. The larger the buyer pools = the more demand for the exact same house. There are people who don’t have cash/time to do remodel, there are people who won’t qualify for a loan to buy a fixer, there are people who just don’t like dealing with remodel. Those are people who would increase the buyers pool for turn key but reduce the buyer pool for the fixer.

[an]

[quote=DomoArigato][quote=AN]
You fail to see that a move in ready house attracts a lot more buyers, which would drive up the price. So, it’s simply about supply and demand. Although it might be the exact same house, the condition is different, which would attract different amount of interests.[/quote]

Supply and demand has nothing to do with the housing market. This is because the government is currently backing 97% of all mortgages. Remove that support and then we could talk about supply and demand (at much lower prices).

Here’s what I suspect is really happening. The banks can’t afford to put any money into their housing inventory because they don’t have any real money. All they have is an inflated mark on their balance sheet for each house. They are willing to sell their inventory at whatever price they can get because the government/taxpayers will cover their loss.

So the banks have a bunch of houses that can’t pass inspection and which they don’t want to put any money into. The banks are willing to sell at close to the real market price (i.e., what the house would sell for without the massive amount of govt/taxpayer support) to all-cash buyers who don’t have to worry about inspections.

The all-cash buyers then fix up the house so that it can pass inspection and then flip it back to the government via an FHA borrower who puts 3.5% down. The process then starts all over again with 50% of FHA FBs getting foreclosed upon within two years and the house going back to a bank.

So what we have is some type of massive, circular Ponzi scheme financed by the government/taxpayers that looks something like this:
bank-owned–>all-cash-buyer–>govt-backed-FB–>foreclosed-back-to-bank

The idea that there is this pool of frivolous borrowers out there who are waiting for the perfectly fixed up house is poppycock. The fact is that the government-backed FBs can’t get through the paperwork/inspections fast enough to beat the all-cash buyer. Further, the banks don’t care what price they get as the taxpayers are covering their losses.

It’s a huge shit sandwich and we are all taking a bite through continuous, forced taxpayer-financed bank bailouts.[/quote]
That’s EXACTLY what I mean by supply and demand. I don’t care why the bank didn’t fix up the house. The point is, they are not fixing it up. Fixers have less demand vs the same house in turn key condition. The larger the buyer pools = the more demand for the exact same house. There are people who don’t have cash/time to do remodel, there are people who won’t qualify for a loan to buy a fixer, there are people who just don’t like dealing with remodel. Those are people who would increase the buyers pool for turn key but reduce the buyer pool for the fixer.

[an]

[quote=DomoArigato][quote=AN]
You fail to see that a move in ready house attracts a lot more buyers, which would drive up the price. So, it’s simply about supply and demand. Although it might be the exact same house, the condition is different, which would attract different amount of interests.[/quote]

Supply and demand has nothing to do with the housing market. This is because the government is currently backing 97% of all mortgages. Remove that support and then we could talk about supply and demand (at much lower prices).

Here’s what I suspect is really happening. The banks can’t afford to put any money into their housing inventory because they don’t have any real money. All they have is an inflated mark on their balance sheet for each house. They are willing to sell their inventory at whatever price they can get because the government/taxpayers will cover their loss.

So the banks have a bunch of houses that can’t pass inspection and which they don’t want to put any money into. The banks are willing to sell at close to the real market price (i.e., what the house would sell for without the massive amount of govt/taxpayer support) to all-cash buyers who don’t have to worry about inspections.

The all-cash buyers then fix up the house so that it can pass inspection and then flip it back to the government via an FHA borrower who puts 3.5% down. The process then starts all over again with 50% of FHA FBs getting foreclosed upon within two years and the house going back to a bank.

So what we have is some type of massive, circular Ponzi scheme financed by the government/taxpayers that looks something like this:
bank-owned–>all-cash-buyer–>govt-backed-FB–>foreclosed-back-to-bank

The idea that there is this pool of frivolous borrowers out there who are waiting for the perfectly fixed up house is poppycock. The fact is that the government-backed FBs can’t get through the paperwork/inspections fast enough to beat the all-cash buyer. Further, the banks don’t care what price they get as the taxpayers are covering their losses.

It’s a huge shit sandwich and we are all taking a bite through continuous, forced taxpayer-financed bank bailouts.[/quote]
That’s EXACTLY what I mean by supply and demand. I don’t care why the bank didn’t fix up the house. The point is, they are not fixing it up. Fixers have less demand vs the same house in turn key condition. The larger the buyer pools = the more demand for the exact same house. There are people who don’t have cash/time to do remodel, there are people who won’t qualify for a loan to buy a fixer, there are people who just don’t like dealing with remodel. Those are people who would increase the buyers pool for turn key but reduce the buyer pool for the fixer.

[an]

[quote=DomoArigato][quote=AN]
You fail to see that a move in ready house attracts a lot more buyers, which would drive up the price. So, it’s simply about supply and demand. Although it might be the exact same house, the condition is different, which would attract different amount of interests.[/quote]

Supply and demand has nothing to do with the housing market. This is because the government is currently backing 97% of all mortgages. Remove that support and then we could talk about supply and demand (at much lower prices).

Here’s what I suspect is really happening. The banks can’t afford to put any money into their housing inventory because they don’t have any real money. All they have is an inflated mark on their balance sheet for each house. They are willing to sell their inventory at whatever price they can get because the government/taxpayers will cover their loss.

So the banks have a bunch of houses that can’t pass inspection and which they don’t want to put any money into. The banks are willing to sell at close to the real market price (i.e., what the house would sell for without the massive amount of govt/taxpayer support) to all-cash buyers who don’t have to worry about inspections.

The all-cash buyers then fix up the house so that it can pass inspection and then flip it back to the government via an FHA borrower who puts 3.5% down. The process then starts all over again with 50% of FHA FBs getting foreclosed upon within two years and the house going back to a bank.

So what we have is some type of massive, circular Ponzi scheme financed by the government/taxpayers that looks something like this:
bank-owned–>all-cash-buyer–>govt-backed-FB–>foreclosed-back-to-bank

The idea that there is this pool of frivolous borrowers out there who are waiting for the perfectly fixed up house is poppycock. The fact is that the government-backed FBs can’t get through the paperwork/inspections fast enough to beat the all-cash buyer. Further, the banks don’t care what price they get as the taxpayers are covering their losses.

It’s a huge shit sandwich and we are all taking a bite through continuous, forced taxpayer-financed bank bailouts.[/quote]
That’s EXACTLY what I mean by supply and demand. I don’t care why the bank didn’t fix up the house. The point is, they are not fixing it up. Fixers have less demand vs the same house in turn key condition. The larger the buyer pools = the more demand for the exact same house. There are people who don’t have cash/time to do remodel, there are people who won’t qualify for a loan to buy a fixer, there are people who just don’t like dealing with remodel. Those are people who would increase the buyers pool for turn key but reduce the buyer pool for the fixer.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with you about the cash offers, but that’s not the case in today’s market. There is an abundant supply of cash buyers out there, according to newspaper reports, realtors, and based on our own experience. It’s to the point that cash buyers cannot really get much of a discount.[/quote]
That’s hard to believe since I’m seeing the opposite occurring. But I don’t have data to back up what I’m seeing, other than fixer closing MUCH lower than a comparable turn key home minus the cost of upgrades. I see that A LOT. But it’s anecdotal.

[quote=CA renter]In the transactions we were involved with, we didn’t care if it was a cash buyer or not, as long as they had 20% down; the final price was all that mattered…and that includes sales we made when the credit market was absolutely frozen. Now, it’s even easier.[/quote]
Did you turn down a higher offer with less than 20% down? You[/quote]

Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.
———

Yes, we turned down a few higher offers with very low down payments. These offers would have been good just a few days/weeks/months prior, but the mortgage market shut down very abruptly in August of 2007. Because of my obsession with the credit/housing bubble, I knew this before many of the realtors, buyers, and other sellers did, which is why I was able to get out in front of everyone and knew to take only the strongest offers. It worked.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with you about the cash offers, but that’s not the case in today’s market. There is an abundant supply of cash buyers out there, according to newspaper reports, realtors, and based on our own experience. It’s to the point that cash buyers cannot really get much of a discount.[/quote]
That’s hard to believe since I’m seeing the opposite occurring. But I don’t have data to back up what I’m seeing, other than fixer closing MUCH lower than a comparable turn key home minus the cost of upgrades. I see that A LOT. But it’s anecdotal.

[quote=CA renter]In the transactions we were involved with, we didn’t care if it was a cash buyer or not, as long as they had 20% down; the final price was all that mattered…and that includes sales we made when the credit market was absolutely frozen. Now, it’s even easier.[/quote]
Did you turn down a higher offer with less than 20% down? You[/quote]

Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.
———

Yes, we turned down a few higher offers with very low down payments. These offers would have been good just a few days/weeks/months prior, but the mortgage market shut down very abruptly in August of 2007. Because of my obsession with the credit/housing bubble, I knew this before many of the realtors, buyers, and other sellers did, which is why I was able to get out in front of everyone and knew to take only the strongest offers. It worked.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with you about the cash offers, but that’s not the case in today’s market. There is an abundant supply of cash buyers out there, according to newspaper reports, realtors, and based on our own experience. It’s to the point that cash buyers cannot really get much of a discount.[/quote]
That’s hard to believe since I’m seeing the opposite occurring. But I don’t have data to back up what I’m seeing, other than fixer closing MUCH lower than a comparable turn key home minus the cost of upgrades. I see that A LOT. But it’s anecdotal.

[quote=CA renter]In the transactions we were involved with, we didn’t care if it was a cash buyer or not, as long as they had 20% down; the final price was all that mattered…and that includes sales we made when the credit market was absolutely frozen. Now, it’s even easier.[/quote]
Did you turn down a higher offer with less than 20% down? You[/quote]

Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.
———

Yes, we turned down a few higher offers with very low down payments. These offers would have been good just a few days/weeks/months prior, but the mortgage market shut down very abruptly in August of 2007. Because of my obsession with the credit/housing bubble, I knew this before many of the realtors, buyers, and other sellers did, which is why I was able to get out in front of everyone and knew to take only the strongest offers. It worked.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with you about the cash offers, but that’s not the case in today’s market. There is an abundant supply of cash buyers out there, according to newspaper reports, realtors, and based on our own experience. It’s to the point that cash buyers cannot really get much of a discount.[/quote]
That’s hard to believe since I’m seeing the opposite occurring. But I don’t have data to back up what I’m seeing, other than fixer closing MUCH lower than a comparable turn key home minus the cost of upgrades. I see that A LOT. But it’s anecdotal.

[quote=CA renter]In the transactions we were involved with, we didn’t care if it was a cash buyer or not, as long as they had 20% down; the final price was all that mattered…and that includes sales we made when the credit market was absolutely frozen. Now, it’s even easier.[/quote]
Did you turn down a higher offer with less than 20% down? You[/quote]

Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.
———

Yes, we turned down a few higher offers with very low down payments. These offers would have been good just a few days/weeks/months prior, but the mortgage market shut down very abruptly in August of 2007. Because of my obsession with the credit/housing bubble, I knew this before many of the realtors, buyers, and other sellers did, which is why I was able to get out in front of everyone and knew to take only the strongest offers. It worked.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with you about the cash offers, but that’s not the case in today’s market. There is an abundant supply of cash buyers out there, according to newspaper reports, realtors, and based on our own experience. It’s to the point that cash buyers cannot really get much of a discount.[/quote]
That’s hard to believe since I’m seeing the opposite occurring. But I don’t have data to back up what I’m seeing, other than fixer closing MUCH lower than a comparable turn key home minus the cost of upgrades. I see that A LOT. But it’s anecdotal.

[quote=CA renter]In the transactions we were involved with, we didn’t care if it was a cash buyer or not, as long as they had 20% down; the final price was all that mattered…and that includes sales we made when the credit market was absolutely frozen. Now, it’s even easier.[/quote]
Did you turn down a higher offer with less than 20% down? You[/quote]

Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.
———

Yes, we turned down a few higher offers with very low down payments. These offers would have been good just a few days/weeks/months prior, but the mortgage market shut down very abruptly in August of 2007. Because of my obsession with the credit/housing bubble, I knew this before many of the realtors, buyers, and other sellers did, which is why I was able to get out in front of everyone and knew to take only the strongest offers. It worked.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.[/quote]
What you two are saying is basically describing what I initially said, which is under the ideal condition, yes, the method of payment should not matter. But in reality, it does matter.

One other thing, I don’t have data behind this claim, but I’m pretty sure there are much more buyers who can’t/won’t buy fixer than all cash buyers who don’t want to buy turn key homes. If this is true, and I think it is, then this is the supply/demand I’m talking about. Demand for turn key homes are higher than demand for fixer. Today, supply for fixer is higher than turn key homes because of the high ratio of foreclosures/SS vs equity sales. There is a reason why appraisers are adding $ on top of the sold price of a SS and foreclosure sale when they use them as comps.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.[/quote]
What you two are saying is basically describing what I initially said, which is under the ideal condition, yes, the method of payment should not matter. But in reality, it does matter.

One other thing, I don’t have data behind this claim, but I’m pretty sure there are much more buyers who can’t/won’t buy fixer than all cash buyers who don’t want to buy turn key homes. If this is true, and I think it is, then this is the supply/demand I’m talking about. Demand for turn key homes are higher than demand for fixer. Today, supply for fixer is higher than turn key homes because of the high ratio of foreclosures/SS vs equity sales. There is a reason why appraisers are adding $ on top of the sold price of a SS and foreclosure sale when they use them as comps.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.[/quote]
What you two are saying is basically describing what I initially said, which is under the ideal condition, yes, the method of payment should not matter. But in reality, it does matter.

One other thing, I don’t have data behind this claim, but I’m pretty sure there are much more buyers who can’t/won’t buy fixer than all cash buyers who don’t want to buy turn key homes. If this is true, and I think it is, then this is the supply/demand I’m talking about. Demand for turn key homes are higher than demand for fixer. Today, supply for fixer is higher than turn key homes because of the high ratio of foreclosures/SS vs equity sales. There is a reason why appraisers are adding $ on top of the sold price of a SS and foreclosure sale when they use them as comps.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Like Domo said, I think a lot of the govt-backed buyers can’t get through fast enough. The good deals go VERY quickly to professional flippers with cash. It’s probably not because they are the only ones willing to buy these properties, but that they are the only ones who have the time and ability to get no-nonsense offers in quickly.

It’s also probably because professional flippers don’t worry about lowballing or “offending” sellers. They will offer what they think the property is worth, and the seller can either take it or leave it. That’s why they get the lower priced homes — they ask for it.[/quote]
What you two are saying is basically describing what I initially said, which is under the ideal condition, yes, the method of payment should not matter. But in reality, it does matter.

One other thing, I don’t have data behind this claim, but I’m pretty sure there are much more buyers who can’t/won’t buy fixer than all cash buyers who don’t want to buy turn key homes. If this is true, and I think it is, then this is the supply/demand I’m talking about. Demand for turn key homes are higher than demand for fixer. Today, supply for fixer is higher than turn key homes because of the high ratio of foreclosures/SS vs equity sales. There is a reason why appraisers are adding $ on top of the sold price of a SS and foreclosure sale when they use them as comps.

[Author]

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