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NotCranky.
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June 3, 2007 at 12:29 PM #56203June 3, 2007 at 12:29 PM #56224
NotCranky
Participant“I do know, however, that some seniors, with LOTS of money do quite a bit of molestation – but I’m assuming that most of it is mutual.”
I didn’t know there was such a thing as mutual molestation?
I thought that was called sex?When I traveled in Mexico I was made aware of a very stratified society. I was told that individuals from “la crema” “the creme” had many ills that the lower class would never dream of or at least, survive to perpetuate. I think that can be relevant in this country too. Evidently the protection that wealth and power provides is pretty broad in some instances.
Anyway it is unfair to implant this stuff into a debate about public or private schools. I think Drews opinion sums it up for me anyway. Our kids are going to go to a school it is our job to protect guide and be responsible for them not the schools. My Reforms of public schools would be drastic. An education would be returned to the status of a privelege not a right. Nobody would be denied an education but it would be in line with their behavior and talents.If the parents were so defective as to not be able to support an educational system the kids would go to orphanges and get their educaton there. Hopefully that incentive would be enough, with some other reforms to turn eduaction around without the need for to many family interventions. serious school reform would require an overhall of our entire society at this point and I don’t see it happening.
June 3, 2007 at 4:12 PM #56218cyphire
ParticipantI sort of agree with you Rustico – I think that secondary education (College, University, et ct) should be a privilege. Only thing is that grammar and high school should be the opposite.
I think it’s society’s burden to education it’s citizens. The less involved the parents, the less education they themselves have perpetuates the crime and poverty in every country in the world.
The better the environment a kid comes from, the less need for getting the family / home lessons in a school. I’d be willing to bet that an inner city kid with a single working mom and no supervision could achieve the same great results as a middle class kid in a nice home with 2 supportive parents if their education was comparable.
If kids have the ability and desire above that – they should earn college. You know it’s funny…. The world is such a crappy place for so many billions of people – it seems that education is the difference. We only pay lip service to it in this country. The US education system will be the real problem on our downward slide to a third rate country.
Do you know how hard kids work in India and China when they get the opportunity to go to school? They cram, they study, they read, they practice on each other, they commit suicide sometimes from the enormous pressure they are under by their parents. Many of them are the only hope for the family to raise themselves out of poverty.
We have lost that desire in this country. Not everyone – but the numbers show just how deluded we are in thinking we actually get a quality education with the system we are in.
June 3, 2007 at 4:12 PM #56238ParticipantI sort of agree with you Rustico – I think that secondary education (College, University, et ct) should be a privilege. Only thing is that grammar and high school should be the opposite.
I think it’s society’s burden to education it’s citizens. The less involved the parents, the less education they themselves have perpetuates the crime and poverty in every country in the world.
The better the environment a kid comes from, the less need for getting the family / home lessons in a school. I’d be willing to bet that an inner city kid with a single working mom and no supervision could achieve the same great results as a middle class kid in a nice home with 2 supportive parents if their education was comparable.
If kids have the ability and desire above that – they should earn college. You know it’s funny…. The world is such a crappy place for so many billions of people – it seems that education is the difference. We only pay lip service to it in this country. The US education system will be the real problem on our downward slide to a third rate country.
Do you know how hard kids work in India and China when they get the opportunity to go to school? They cram, they study, they read, they practice on each other, they commit suicide sometimes from the enormous pressure they are under by their parents. Many of them are the only hope for the family to raise themselves out of poverty.
We have lost that desire in this country. Not everyone – but the numbers show just how deluded we are in thinking we actually get a quality education with the system we are in.
June 3, 2007 at 6:13 PM #56229ParticipantI am not picking on single moms at all as I believe they have nurtured many a family through tough situations. How do you get the average kid with rotten parenting to get a good education when that kid can’t behave in class past the third grade and at which point he starts down grading everyone else’s opportunities? Then the law says the best thing to do is to leave these acting out kids, in the mainstream classroom for as long as they manage to drag themselves to school. Then from about the ninth grade they start dropping out ,best case scenario, or worst case shifting out of the education system into the penal system.Those are the ones that don’t end up in “Special-Ed” I have worked in Special-Ed for a brief time and I can tell you special-ed with the exception of the truly disabled is a catch all for kids like I am talking about. Kids from screwed up families. We should not just sit around and watch rotten parents drag kids down acedemically anymore than we would tolerate other forms of child abuse.Those families go completely without consequences unless they are physically torturing the kids.I know, I was told to look for cigarette burns on a 4th grade kid because the fact that his two 500lb welfare parents who didn’t care if the kid went to school or not, living in 4 feet of garbage were not indication enough that something was wrong. Some kids from terrible situations do reasonably well inspite of the parenting of course. Those kids are the exception though. Why do kids have to depend on the luck of the draw of parents or some exceptional inner strength to get some leadership and a decent education in a constructive enviornment? Because our society does not care or dare to intervene.
June 3, 2007 at 6:13 PM #56250ParticipantI am not picking on single moms at all as I believe they have nurtured many a family through tough situations. How do you get the average kid with rotten parenting to get a good education when that kid can’t behave in class past the third grade and at which point he starts down grading everyone else’s opportunities? Then the law says the best thing to do is to leave these acting out kids, in the mainstream classroom for as long as they manage to drag themselves to school. Then from about the ninth grade they start dropping out ,best case scenario, or worst case shifting out of the education system into the penal system.Those are the ones that don’t end up in “Special-Ed” I have worked in Special-Ed for a brief time and I can tell you special-ed with the exception of the truly disabled is a catch all for kids like I am talking about. Kids from screwed up families. We should not just sit around and watch rotten parents drag kids down acedemically anymore than we would tolerate other forms of child abuse.Those families go completely without consequences unless they are physically torturing the kids.I know, I was told to look for cigarette burns on a 4th grade kid because the fact that his two 500lb welfare parents who didn’t care if the kid went to school or not, living in 4 feet of garbage were not indication enough that something was wrong. Some kids from terrible situations do reasonably well inspite of the parenting of course. Those kids are the exception though. Why do kids have to depend on the luck of the draw of parents or some exceptional inner strength to get some leadership and a decent education in a constructive enviornment? Because our society does not care or dare to intervene.
June 3, 2007 at 7:00 PM #56251Participantagree…
June 3, 2007 at 7:00 PM #56272Participantagree…
June 3, 2007 at 7:08 PM #56253patb
ParticipantWhat is the difference between a recession a depression and aramageddon?
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Easy
Recession when your neighbor loses his job.
Depression, when you lose your job.
Armageddon, When everyone on the block is unemployed.BTW minority unemployment is often 40%
June 3, 2007 at 7:08 PM #56274ParticipantWhat is the difference between a recession a depression and aramageddon?
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Easy
Recession when your neighbor loses his job.
Depression, when you lose your job.
Armageddon, When everyone on the block is unemployed.BTW minority unemployment is often 40%
June 3, 2007 at 9:02 PM #56271Anonymous
GuestYou’re right, lk, Andrew must have been a deeply religious man to be a male prostitute and a murderer.
Stalin went to seminary as a young man. He turned out rather ‘unChristian,’ too.
Religion can’t save everyone; we Catholics acknowledge the awesome power of nature (vs. nurture). But, for those of us within two standard deviations of normal, it sure does help.
June 3, 2007 at 9:02 PM #56292GuestYou’re right, lk, Andrew must have been a deeply religious man to be a male prostitute and a murderer.
Stalin went to seminary as a young man. He turned out rather ‘unChristian,’ too.
Religion can’t save everyone; we Catholics acknowledge the awesome power of nature (vs. nurture). But, for those of us within two standard deviations of normal, it sure does help.
June 4, 2007 at 4:05 AM #56323lostkitty
ParticipantRustico,
You wrote: “My Reforms of public schools would be drastic. An education would be returned to the status of a privelege not a right. Nobody would be denied an education but it would be in line with their behavior and talents.If the parents were so defective as to not be able to support an educational system the kids would go to orphanges and get their educaton there.”
Very interesting idea… I like it. It would save a lot fo kids from some wicked parents.
As an aside, you write very insightfully. I love to read your posts. You are a true philosopher.
Keep those posts coming!
June 4, 2007 at 4:05 AM #56344ParticipantRustico,
You wrote: “My Reforms of public schools would be drastic. An education would be returned to the status of a privelege not a right. Nobody would be denied an education but it would be in line with their behavior and talents.If the parents were so defective as to not be able to support an educational system the kids would go to orphanges and get their educaton there.”
Very interesting idea… I like it. It would save a lot fo kids from some wicked parents.
As an aside, you write very insightfully. I love to read your posts. You are a true philosopher.
Keep those posts coming!
June 4, 2007 at 5:18 AM #56324Participantjg-
You wrote: “Religion can’t save everyone; we Catholics acknowledge the awesome power of nature (vs. nurture). But, for those of us within two standard deviations of normal, it sure does help.”
So do you mean that it was ‘nature’ that caused Andrew C. to become a murderer? He was born to be a murderer?
Just trying to understand your meaning.
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