- This topic has 20 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 5 months ago by
SK in CV.
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June 3, 2016 at 4:42 PM #21995June 3, 2016 at 7:01 PM #798289
bearishgurl
ParticipantI’ve seen a post like this here on the forum before and it is more than a little bit erroneous. There are a lot of misconceptions floating around about who is eligible for what kind of subsidy. This post presumes that John and Juan are the sole support of their families and continue to be until their kids are of majority (their spouses don’t bring in income or at least any income which is reported to the state).
Erroneous assumptions about John:
John’s MAGI is low enough for him to get Obamacare for he and his spouse for as little as $1 month each and Medi-Cal for both of his kids. Medi-Cal covers the children’s dental and the parents can buy a dental HMO from their exchange carrier for as little as ~$20 month each.
If John’s income is the same or nearly the same when his kid(s) reach the 11th grade, his kids are likely eligible for a Pell Grant and even possibly a Cal Grant to attend University in CA IF they can get accepted.
John’s kids are eligible for a .40 day school lunch (and a .40 breakfast, if offered) at his income level.
Most of the Johns residing in CA with $31-$40K net income per year for a family of 4 only have liability insurance on their (well-used) vehicles … or intermittently lapsing insurance (put in place only for biennial vehicle registration purposes) or none at all (they license the vehicle in MX).
I’m not sure if John’s family qualifies for a Section 8 voucher. If they do, they are borderline qualified and there is a lo-o-o-ong waiting list. In addition, not very many landlords accept them anymore.
Erroneous assumptions about Juan:
Juan’s family is eligible for limited SNAP of $150-$200 mo (fka food stamps). Juan’s family will have to join a food coop (and send an adult to work there 1-2 days month) to get more “free food” in CA. Juan’s kids are eligible for free school lunches (and breakfasts, if offered). Juan will have to present two legitimate forms of “residency” to enroll his kids in public school in CA (utility bills, lease, etc) in his name. Cell phone bills are not allowed.
Juan’s family is not eligible for cash aid in CA.
Juan’s family is not eligible for subsidized rent in CA unless the principal worker in the family is documented (again, long waiting list).
Juan’s family can and does show up in CA hospital emergency rooms where they are round up and questioned by “Medi-Cal specialists” as soon as they are able to hold a conversation. That specialist gets their “story” and the name/identity they are purportedly using (from a fake SS card?) and later indexes it with the SSA, possibly learning that the number was previously issued to an American decedent but by then Juan or his family member has been released and can’t be found. Perhaps it’s not such a good idea anymore for Juan and his family to visit hospital emergency rooms unless one of them is dying. Community Clinics exist in many CA counties to specifically serve this population.
Juan’s kids can only avail themselves of the “Dream Act” (to attend University in CA) IF they have successfully graduated from a CA HS (not sure how many years must be in residency) with the “right” academic record and a GPA and SAT score high enough to be accepted. Juan’s kids are welcome to enroll in a CA CC (space permitting).
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Both John and Juan’s kids qualify for an admission fee waiver to UC/CSU and SAT test fee waiver.
Both John and Juan may qualify for a utility (gas and elec) and landline phone discount IF they are legitimately renting a place in their name. John may qualify for ONE basic cellphone per family (no smartphone – <$20 month service) but he would need to choose between it or a family landline at ~$7 month. He can't have both at a discount. The rest of the stuff is way out in left field.
June 3, 2016 at 9:25 PM #798298bewildering
ParticipantMost of OPs comment seems contrived and ignores the major issue:
The negative effect of illegal immigration on “john legals” salary. Why pay 25/hour for the same work as 10/hour. Low/semi skilled workers are people that lose out most to illegal immigration.
All the academic research I have seen indicates that illegal immigration greatly benefits the wealthy, but absolutely screws the poor, especially the working poor.
June 4, 2016 at 7:31 AM #798305no_such_reality
Participant[quote]John Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; John Legal now has $31,231.00.[/quote]
This is a prime example of how broken our thinking is of our taxes. Unless John’s spouse is a high earner and he’d be better off staying home with the kids, John didn’t pay for sh*t.
John “middle class” Legal thinks he pays taxes. It’s right there, 30% off the top. He doesn’t.
If John has a W2 income of $52,000, is married and two kids, without another single thing, John and family will pay $588 in Federal income tax and $0 in California income tax. The child tax credit and California exemption wipes out his income taxes. Go do the ____ing math, the tax form takes all of 3 minutes at this level.
That leaves social security, which is 7.65% if W2 and 15.3% if self employed. Medicare is 1.45% of that, or 2.9% if self employed.
Since John’s family only makes $52K, they qualify for a $304/month assistance on for medical insurance. Broken, pain in the butt, sure, but roughly half of their premium.
They’re damn close to qualifying for SNAP too depending on their rent and housing expenses.
So John thinks he’s paying for the roads, police, firefighters and everything else with his $588 per year in taxes while sending two kids to school at $9000+ per year each.
June 4, 2016 at 8:43 AM #798310Anonymous
Guest[quote=bewildering]Most of OPs comment seems contrived and ignores the major issue:
The negative effect of illegal immigration on “john legals” salary. Why pay 25/hour for the same work as 10/hour. Low/semi skilled workers are people that lose out most to illegal immigration.
All the academic research I have seen indicates that illegal immigration greatly benefits the wealthy, but absolutely screws the poor, especially the working poor.[/quote]
Exactly, that’s why there are a lot more Juans than Johns at Construction sites or other lower wage jobs around California.
June 4, 2016 at 8:51 AM #798311Participant[quote=bewildering]Most of OPs comment seems contrived and ignores the major issue:
The negative effect of illegal immigration on “john legals” salary. Why pay 25/hour for the same work as 10/hour. Low/semi skilled workers are people that lose out most to illegal immigration.
All the academic research I have seen indicates that illegal immigration greatly benefits the wealthy, but absolutely screws the poor, especially the working poor.[/quote]
I agree with this post. But I disagree that working in a “blue collar” occupation automatically means that one will be “poor” throughout their working lives. Unfortunately, in our part of the country, wages paid to illegal immigrants for some trades (mainly construction, landscaping and manual labor) significantly lowers the wages of legal American citizens who legitimately trained in these occupations thru state-approved programs (in CA, ROP – CC) and obtained a 2-year official “journey-level certificate.” These much lower wages long after graduation often renders the worker and their families eligible for public assistance (ex: SNAP, WIC and free child care as well as rent subsidies), where, if they were being paid their union wages of yesteryear, they would be solidly “middle-class” taxpaying families off the dole.My advice to anyone considering going into the trades in SoCal and other border cities across the nation would be to major in a trade like HVAC, Electrician or Master Plumber where they could get a well-paying job with a general contractor. Either that, or move far away from the border after graduation to ply their trade in an area which is NOT infiltrated with cheap immigrant labor. There ARE still some areas left in the nation which are not crawling with cheap immigrant labor willing to do almost anything for .20 to .40 on the dollar. SoCal is not one of them, nor is most of the state.
June 4, 2016 at 8:57 AM #798309Participant[quote=no_such_reality][quote]John Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; John Legal now has $31,231.00.[/quote]
This is a prime example of how broken our thinking is of our taxes. Unless John’s spouse is a high earner and he’d be better off staying home with the kids, John didn’t pay for sh*t.
John “middle class” Legal thinks he pays taxes. It’s right there, 30% off the top. He doesn’t.
If John has a W2 income of $52,000, is married and two kids, without another single thing, John and family will pay $588 in Federal income tax and $0 in California income tax. The child tax credit and California exemption wipes out his income taxes. Go do the ____ing math, the tax form takes all of 3 minutes at this level.
That leaves social security, which is 7.65% if W2 and 15.3% if self employed. Medicare is 1.45% of that, or 2.9% if self employed.
Since John’s family only makes $52K, they qualify for a $304/month assistance on for medical insurance. Broken, pain in the butt, sure, but roughly half of their premium.
They’re damn close to qualifying for SNAP too depending on their rent and housing expenses.
So John thinks he’s paying for the roads, police, firefighters and everything else with his $588 per year in taxes while sending two kids to school at $9000+ per year each.[/quote]I agree with most of this. John should probably claim at least 6 dependents on his W-4 at work so he can keep more of his paycheck and not get such a large tax refund.
Covered CA isn’t going to use $52K for John’s income. They’re going to use his MAGI. I maintain that John and Ms. Legal can get an HMO “marketplace” plan for $1 to $11 month each and a PPO plan for $27 to $70 mo each depending on their ages. They at least qualify for a Silver 73 plan and possibly even a Silver 87 plan with the two kids (which have copay assistance built into them). Their two kids will be placed into expanded Medi-Cal under the new March 2015 guidelines for “moderate income” families.
June 4, 2016 at 9:38 AM #798313bobby
Participant[quote=]……or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; John Legal now has $31,231.00……[/quote]
John Legal should get a better accountant or spend $3 to buy a calculator
30% tax on 52,000 is 36,400June 4, 2016 at 10:01 AM #798314FlyerInHi
GuestThis is a stupid scenario. There are plenty of legal Juans and mixed families. The legal ones often have 2 or 3 jobs, meaning they are working hardest. My carpet guy was born in USA. He works on big commercial buildings and runs a small business on the side. He dad might be undocumented, or was at one point.
June 4, 2016 at 10:44 AM #798318Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]This is a stupid scenario. There are plenty of legal Juans and mixed families. The legal ones often have 2 or 3 jobs, meaning they are working hardest. My carpet guy was born in USA. He works on big commercial buildings and runs a small business on the side. He dad might be undocumented, or was at one point.[/quote]I agree with this.
June 4, 2016 at 7:59 PM #798338Guest[quote=FlyerInHi]This is a stupid scenario. There are plenty of legal Juans and mixed families. The legal ones often have 2 or 3 jobs, meaning they are working hardest. My carpet guy was born in USA. He works on big commercial buildings and runs a small business on the side. He dad might be undocumented, or was at one point.[/quote]
You missed the point entirely. Juan in the hypothetical scenario is merely a nick-name for the illegal immigrant worker. Your example of a legal worker who happens to be named Juan is actually John in this case because he is the one being hurt by the immigrant labor force pushing down his wages.
June 6, 2016 at 4:28 PM #798433poorgradstudent
ParticipantI’m very happy to see data-driven Piggs completely destroy this post.
June 6, 2016 at 4:43 PM #798435Guest[quote=deadzone]
You missed the point entirely. Juan in the hypothetical scenario is merely a nick-name for the illegal immigrant worker. Your example of a legal worker who happens to be named Juan is actually John in this case because he is the one being hurt by the immigrant labor force pushing down his wages.[/quote]
Ok. I concede a little.. but only a little.
Of course, undocumented immigration does push down wages for legal residents. And that’s why we should legalize undocumented immigrants already here so they can ask for higher wages.
With economic evolution the benefits are distributed to the economy as a whole, but the downside are concentrated on some groups who lose their jobs. We just need a better policy responses to help the affected groups.
June 6, 2016 at 5:27 PM #798437SK in CV
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Of course, undocumented immigration does push down wages for legal residents. [/quote]
I know that seems to be conventional wisdom. But is it true? Any research to support the claim? I’ve seen plenty of research that indicates it’s not accurate.
June 6, 2016 at 6:33 PM #798441Guest[quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]Of course, undocumented immigration does push down wages for legal residents. [/quote]
I know that seems to be conventional wisdom. But is it true? Any research to support the claim? I’ve seen plenty of research that indicates it’s not accurate.[/quote]
I take it back. I don’t think it’s true in the aggregate because legal and undocumented workers work different jobs. For legal residents where there’s an overlap, I would say yes. Some may also argue that if it weren’t for undocumented immigrants, some jobs would pay more.
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