Inland Border Patrol, 4th Amendment rights, being a jerk…. etc.

[earlyretirement]

I saw this posted on another Internet forum that I post on.

Has anyone else seen it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpEtsREAQgk

I understand 4th Amendment rights and I agree with them but these guys are just being jerks. It takes all of 5 seconds to just confirm, “Yes, I’m a US citizen” and be on their merry way.

Has anyone known anyone that acted like a jerk like this? These agents are just trying to do their job.

I was surprised by the video and curious how many people really act like this? Again, I want to stress that I understand and absolutely agree with the 4th Amendment but can’t understand someone not simply wanting to confirm they are indeed a US citizen.

[spdrun]

I confirmed that I was a US citizen when I was stopped in CA — twice in the same week. I refused to answer any other questions as to destination, length of stay, etc; the more so because I was just road-tripping the time I was questioned, and really didn’t know those answers precisely.

I have to say that my weirdest encounter with USBP came on the Canadian border, re-entering VT from Quebec. I mentioned that I was visiting a friend, and the little dickweed Napoleon (French name, too) kept grilling me whether she was my girlfriend. Last I checked, unless I was smuggling her into the country in my trunk or had drug-resistant syph, it’s not illegal for me to boink a Canadian.

[spdrun]

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[spdrun]

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[earlyretirement]

Oh yeah spdrun. I’m not talking about answering tons of questions but I think anyone would agree just confirming your US citizenship doesn’t strip you of any privacy and it’s much quicker than being a jerk about it.

[moneymaker]

I think we are slowly being stripped of our constitutional rights, and the government starts with those least likely/able to resist, the homeless, the imprisoned, the poor, the uneducated. I have a half brother who is in jail(perhaps rightly so) and he cannot talk, write or E-mail without being recorded,read , or intercepted. Seems to me that would be unreasoned search and seizure as well.

[paramount]

[quote=moneymaker]I think we are slowly being stripped of our constitutional rights, and the government starts with those least likely/able to resist, the homeless, the imprisoned, the poor, the uneducated. [/quote]

Yes, it’s the slippery slope that starts with: Are you a US citizen.

[mike92104]

I think it’s reasonable to asked if you’re a citizen. However, as soon as you say you are, the 4th amendment should apply. Has anybody noticed the BP’s new camera setups at all of their checkpoints. They’re recording everybody’s face and license plate each and every time you pass through. I usually flip them bird as I drive by.

[bearishgurl]

ER, we’ve discussed this issue in the past. Off the top of my head, here are a couple of threads but there may be more:

http://piggington.com/cross_country_road_trip_anyone?page=4

http://piggington.com/why_is_a_doper_snorting_bath_salts_my_problem?page=1

Certainly, ER, you’re previously having resided in TX … you know the drill. You must have driven between there and here at one point . . .

[spdrun]

Actually, the 4th Amendment applies to non-citizens on US soil as well. Cut off the illegal immigration problem at the border level itself (we have plenty of unemployed that we could give a satellite phone, food, water, a uniform and viewing equipment) and at the employment level. Not that it’s such a big problem. At least around here, “illegals” work harder than 99% of Americans. The stereotype of the Mexican welfare queen is pretty much hooey.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl]ER, we’ve discussed this issue in the past. Off the top of my head, here are a couple of threads but there may be more:

http://piggington.com/cross_country_road_trip_anyone?page=4

http://piggington.com/why_is_a_doper_snorting_bath_salts_my_problem?page=1

Certainly, ER, you’re previously having resided in TX … you know the drill. You must have driven between there and here at one point . . .[/quote]

Ah sorry…I missed them. I didn’t read the board previously as much as I am now.

Yes, I lived in Texas before but never drove from there to here. I’m not the road trip type. I’d rather fly. But if I did get stopped I would just say I’m a US citizen and be on my way.

[blahblahblah]

[quote=mike92104]I think it’s reasonable to asked if you’re a citizen. However, as soon as you say you are, the 4th amendment should apply.[/quote]

Wrong. The Bill of Rights simply affirms certain natural rights. If you are a human being, you have them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_rights

[spdrun]

Yes, it’s the slippery slope that starts with: Are you a US citizen.

If that was the only question they asked … but they’ve taken to asking about travel plans and other things that are none of their fucking business, even if someone shows legal US documentation.

[sdduuuude]

I love it. Very educational.

I agree that answering the simple question of citizenship does not strip you of your rights. If you were being detained without probable cause, that would be.

I think what these videos make clear is that the checkpoints are not actually unconstitutional but the officers aren’t always quite clear on the law. The police want to put up a front of being in control, but the reality of the situation is that they aren’t.

The supervisors get it but the worker-bees seem to be reluctant to let go of the power trip when confronted with the real limits of their authority. I love the guy that said “I order you to pull over to secondary.” He didn’t really get it.

So even I agree isn’t worth the hassle to avoid answering the simple citizenship question but I love the fact that these guys made the videos. They were sort-of being jerks, but did it to proving a point, and a very important one.

Consider it a reminder to all that these are voluntary check-point after all.

Well done !

[spdrun]

Exactly — a lot of people in 1956 probably thought that Rosa Parks was being kind of a bitch. Sometimes, people need to stand on their Constitutional rights, even if it annoys others more than a little bit.

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