HS teacher-$70K for 9 months of work

[blahblahblah]

You people crack me up. Arguing about whether someone deserves to make $100K or $70K a year or whatever. Meanwhile the hedge fund managers and Goldman Sachs goons are raking in millions a year by gutting your country and stealing your tax money. Nary a peep about whether they’re overpaid, let’s instead focus on a principal making $150K or a teacher making $70K or whatever.

This country is doomed! Back to sleep, everyone…

[poorgradstudent]

I’m fairly sure Math and Science teachers tend to be paid more than some of their less heavily demanded counterparts. It’s pretty simple supply and demand, and most people capable of teaching math and science could easily make more money doing something else. Love of teaching will only go so far; at some point there does need to be financial rewards.

Because of a fairly powerful union, teacher salaries do tend to be fairly top-heavy. On the one hand, it’s nice for teachers to know that a raise is coming as they become more experienced. However in terms of actual value, most first, second and third year teachers probably provide a lot more than their more highly paid and experienced colleagues. Private school salaries are a good example of what happens when you don’t have a union; teaching is a pretty decent job at first, but private schools do very little to reward seniority.

Finally, I have a friend who is a teacher, and “Work schedule is 7:00 to 3:00 and with numerous holidays and short days” is at best misleading. Minimally 6:30-3:30 would be more accurate. Yeah, if a teacher has the same class for a decade their prep time is reduced, but there still is grading and test prep (it’s a very lazy teacher who gives the same test year after year hoping students won’t get a copy from an older brother), and there are staff meetings.

In short, teacher pay is a complex issue without easy answers. I think most people can agree that performance has become too uncoupled from pay. It’s intuitive to say we need good, smart people teaching kids, and good pay is what lures smart people into careers. And private schools show exactly how challenging it is to provide a strong education while keeping costs down.

[poorgradstudent]

I’m fairly sure Math and Science teachers tend to be paid more than some of their less heavily demanded counterparts. It’s pretty simple supply and demand, and most people capable of teaching math and science could easily make more money doing something else. Love of teaching will only go so far; at some point there does need to be financial rewards.

Because of a fairly powerful union, teacher salaries do tend to be fairly top-heavy. On the one hand, it’s nice for teachers to know that a raise is coming as they become more experienced. However in terms of actual value, most first, second and third year teachers probably provide a lot more than their more highly paid and experienced colleagues. Private school salaries are a good example of what happens when you don’t have a union; teaching is a pretty decent job at first, but private schools do very little to reward seniority.

Finally, I have a friend who is a teacher, and “Work schedule is 7:00 to 3:00 and with numerous holidays and short days” is at best misleading. Minimally 6:30-3:30 would be more accurate. Yeah, if a teacher has the same class for a decade their prep time is reduced, but there still is grading and test prep (it’s a very lazy teacher who gives the same test year after year hoping students won’t get a copy from an older brother), and there are staff meetings.

In short, teacher pay is a complex issue without easy answers. I think most people can agree that performance has become too uncoupled from pay. It’s intuitive to say we need good, smart people teaching kids, and good pay is what lures smart people into careers. And private schools show exactly how challenging it is to provide a strong education while keeping costs down.

[poorgradstudent]

I’m fairly sure Math and Science teachers tend to be paid more than some of their less heavily demanded counterparts. It’s pretty simple supply and demand, and most people capable of teaching math and science could easily make more money doing something else. Love of teaching will only go so far; at some point there does need to be financial rewards.

Because of a fairly powerful union, teacher salaries do tend to be fairly top-heavy. On the one hand, it’s nice for teachers to know that a raise is coming as they become more experienced. However in terms of actual value, most first, second and third year teachers probably provide a lot more than their more highly paid and experienced colleagues. Private school salaries are a good example of what happens when you don’t have a union; teaching is a pretty decent job at first, but private schools do very little to reward seniority.

Finally, I have a friend who is a teacher, and “Work schedule is 7:00 to 3:00 and with numerous holidays and short days” is at best misleading. Minimally 6:30-3:30 would be more accurate. Yeah, if a teacher has the same class for a decade their prep time is reduced, but there still is grading and test prep (it’s a very lazy teacher who gives the same test year after year hoping students won’t get a copy from an older brother), and there are staff meetings.

In short, teacher pay is a complex issue without easy answers. I think most people can agree that performance has become too uncoupled from pay. It’s intuitive to say we need good, smart people teaching kids, and good pay is what lures smart people into careers. And private schools show exactly how challenging it is to provide a strong education while keeping costs down.

[poorgradstudent]

I’m fairly sure Math and Science teachers tend to be paid more than some of their less heavily demanded counterparts. It’s pretty simple supply and demand, and most people capable of teaching math and science could easily make more money doing something else. Love of teaching will only go so far; at some point there does need to be financial rewards.

Because of a fairly powerful union, teacher salaries do tend to be fairly top-heavy. On the one hand, it’s nice for teachers to know that a raise is coming as they become more experienced. However in terms of actual value, most first, second and third year teachers probably provide a lot more than their more highly paid and experienced colleagues. Private school salaries are a good example of what happens when you don’t have a union; teaching is a pretty decent job at first, but private schools do very little to reward seniority.

Finally, I have a friend who is a teacher, and “Work schedule is 7:00 to 3:00 and with numerous holidays and short days” is at best misleading. Minimally 6:30-3:30 would be more accurate. Yeah, if a teacher has the same class for a decade their prep time is reduced, but there still is grading and test prep (it’s a very lazy teacher who gives the same test year after year hoping students won’t get a copy from an older brother), and there are staff meetings.

In short, teacher pay is a complex issue without easy answers. I think most people can agree that performance has become too uncoupled from pay. It’s intuitive to say we need good, smart people teaching kids, and good pay is what lures smart people into careers. And private schools show exactly how challenging it is to provide a strong education while keeping costs down.

[poorgradstudent]

I’m fairly sure Math and Science teachers tend to be paid more than some of their less heavily demanded counterparts. It’s pretty simple supply and demand, and most people capable of teaching math and science could easily make more money doing something else. Love of teaching will only go so far; at some point there does need to be financial rewards.

Because of a fairly powerful union, teacher salaries do tend to be fairly top-heavy. On the one hand, it’s nice for teachers to know that a raise is coming as they become more experienced. However in terms of actual value, most first, second and third year teachers probably provide a lot more than their more highly paid and experienced colleagues. Private school salaries are a good example of what happens when you don’t have a union; teaching is a pretty decent job at first, but private schools do very little to reward seniority.

Finally, I have a friend who is a teacher, and “Work schedule is 7:00 to 3:00 and with numerous holidays and short days” is at best misleading. Minimally 6:30-3:30 would be more accurate. Yeah, if a teacher has the same class for a decade their prep time is reduced, but there still is grading and test prep (it’s a very lazy teacher who gives the same test year after year hoping students won’t get a copy from an older brother), and there are staff meetings.

In short, teacher pay is a complex issue without easy answers. I think most people can agree that performance has become too uncoupled from pay. It’s intuitive to say we need good, smart people teaching kids, and good pay is what lures smart people into careers. And private schools show exactly how challenging it is to provide a strong education while keeping costs down.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE[/quote]
That you think it is a lot easier academically is two me evidence of ignorance on your part.

In all fairness, “academic” can mean different things in these to occupations.

I have known a lot of engineers and a lot of teachers. Both require a fairly deep understanding of the subject matter. However, most people think that the subject matter is the material being taught.
Its not.
The subject matter for a teacher is the student.
The hardest subjects are the ones in the poorest neighborhoods who don’t really see the purpose in education. Usually the hardest work here is delegated to the lowest-paid workers.

Also, I challenge you to present stats comparing how many people enter engineering programs and are in that profession 10 years later and compare that with teachers.

A whole lot of teachers drop out their first year to become engineers (because they find it easier). I imagine the reverse is true.

Finally, considering most teachers I know work more than 60 hrs per week, I think the argument that they somehow don’t work as hard is kind of dumb.[/quote]

Your the one that is ignorant. Your ingnorant because you did not read what I said. I never said that teachers aren’t hard working. Never. I said that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

I have worked in the education field albiet not as a certified teacher. I have worked on the Pima Indian reservation in Arizona until the casino was put on the reservation they were all dirt poor. I work there before the Casino when it was still dangerous for white people to even be on the Res (admittedly I was not viewed as white due to deep tan from working construction and long black hair… Yes Im a dude). We use to entice them into studying by feeding the poor kids. So yes I do know what the stress level can be of a teacher tutoring impovrised kids from broken homes. For god sakes I tutored the Osif Childern whose parents chopped up the mail-lady in Dec of 84’and sparked the largest FBI manhunt of the time. Those kids were screwed up. BUT stress levels and academics are not the same and not interchangable subjects.

I stated that the two are not equal that is all.

I have also been a math and science tutor in college and had many teachers as students. Many of them I wouldn’t let teach my dog. So yes there is a mixed bag of them and their renumeration should be reflected by thier talent. And yes I have meet many engineers that couldn’t think thier way out of a wet paper bag and are over paid for the services they preform… I wish we could eliminate all of them from the industries.

Are you an engineer? If you have been I may take your arguement more chartably.

If not you can’t not know the stress of the circulm and therefore the pride in doing it. I never met anyone who dropped into the engineering circulm that wasn’t already hard science majors so I dispute your arguement that teachers drop into engineering cause they find it easy. My college sweet heart was in teaching… Guess who use to help write her papers? So there again I am familar with the subject matter.

I knew plenty of engineering non-hackers that dropped into business and others. Some of them much smarter than me but couldn’t handle the stress or the work load. Also while in school, engineering and hard sciences is far more difficult and stressful than teaching. The proffesor, literally, have a code of weeding out all non-hackers (maybe nursing and med school). What other circulms are there were the teachers are trying to fail you (ever scored 14 out of 100 on exam and still got a B)? Usually that is why we have an ego coming out of school. We made it through a program that few attempted and even fewer made it out of.

Once you get out of school it is only the stress level that changes. Teaching is more stressful in the work place. Good teachers deserve more pay.

Of course I know at least one engineer that would laugh at that. He worked at Intel which is a meat grinder and later became a HS math teacher. He would gladly tell you which one he prefers for stress.

As for the stats I challenge you. Why do I need to show stats to repudiate my own arguement especially when you did not read my arguement correctly the first time?

I have been on both sides of the fence. What about you? I have formed an opinion based on those experiences and what I have observed working within both. I think that make me a little less ignorant than you.

Regards,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE[/quote]
That you think it is a lot easier academically is two me evidence of ignorance on your part.

In all fairness, “academic” can mean different things in these to occupations.

I have known a lot of engineers and a lot of teachers. Both require a fairly deep understanding of the subject matter. However, most people think that the subject matter is the material being taught.
Its not.
The subject matter for a teacher is the student.
The hardest subjects are the ones in the poorest neighborhoods who don’t really see the purpose in education. Usually the hardest work here is delegated to the lowest-paid workers.

Also, I challenge you to present stats comparing how many people enter engineering programs and are in that profession 10 years later and compare that with teachers.

A whole lot of teachers drop out their first year to become engineers (because they find it easier). I imagine the reverse is true.

Finally, considering most teachers I know work more than 60 hrs per week, I think the argument that they somehow don’t work as hard is kind of dumb.[/quote]

Your the one that is ignorant. Your ingnorant because you did not read what I said. I never said that teachers aren’t hard working. Never. I said that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

I have worked in the education field albiet not as a certified teacher. I have worked on the Pima Indian reservation in Arizona until the casino was put on the reservation they were all dirt poor. I work there before the Casino when it was still dangerous for white people to even be on the Res (admittedly I was not viewed as white due to deep tan from working construction and long black hair… Yes Im a dude). We use to entice them into studying by feeding the poor kids. So yes I do know what the stress level can be of a teacher tutoring impovrised kids from broken homes. For god sakes I tutored the Osif Childern whose parents chopped up the mail-lady in Dec of 84’and sparked the largest FBI manhunt of the time. Those kids were screwed up. BUT stress levels and academics are not the same and not interchangable subjects.

I stated that the two are not equal that is all.

I have also been a math and science tutor in college and had many teachers as students. Many of them I wouldn’t let teach my dog. So yes there is a mixed bag of them and their renumeration should be reflected by thier talent. And yes I have meet many engineers that couldn’t think thier way out of a wet paper bag and are over paid for the services they preform… I wish we could eliminate all of them from the industries.

Are you an engineer? If you have been I may take your arguement more chartably.

If not you can’t not know the stress of the circulm and therefore the pride in doing it. I never met anyone who dropped into the engineering circulm that wasn’t already hard science majors so I dispute your arguement that teachers drop into engineering cause they find it easy. My college sweet heart was in teaching… Guess who use to help write her papers? So there again I am familar with the subject matter.

I knew plenty of engineering non-hackers that dropped into business and others. Some of them much smarter than me but couldn’t handle the stress or the work load. Also while in school, engineering and hard sciences is far more difficult and stressful than teaching. The proffesor, literally, have a code of weeding out all non-hackers (maybe nursing and med school). What other circulms are there were the teachers are trying to fail you (ever scored 14 out of 100 on exam and still got a B)? Usually that is why we have an ego coming out of school. We made it through a program that few attempted and even fewer made it out of.

Once you get out of school it is only the stress level that changes. Teaching is more stressful in the work place. Good teachers deserve more pay.

Of course I know at least one engineer that would laugh at that. He worked at Intel which is a meat grinder and later became a HS math teacher. He would gladly tell you which one he prefers for stress.

As for the stats I challenge you. Why do I need to show stats to repudiate my own arguement especially when you did not read my arguement correctly the first time?

I have been on both sides of the fence. What about you? I have formed an opinion based on those experiences and what I have observed working within both. I think that make me a little less ignorant than you.

Regards,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE[/quote]
That you think it is a lot easier academically is two me evidence of ignorance on your part.

In all fairness, “academic” can mean different things in these to occupations.

I have known a lot of engineers and a lot of teachers. Both require a fairly deep understanding of the subject matter. However, most people think that the subject matter is the material being taught.
Its not.
The subject matter for a teacher is the student.
The hardest subjects are the ones in the poorest neighborhoods who don’t really see the purpose in education. Usually the hardest work here is delegated to the lowest-paid workers.

Also, I challenge you to present stats comparing how many people enter engineering programs and are in that profession 10 years later and compare that with teachers.

A whole lot of teachers drop out their first year to become engineers (because they find it easier). I imagine the reverse is true.

Finally, considering most teachers I know work more than 60 hrs per week, I think the argument that they somehow don’t work as hard is kind of dumb.[/quote]

Your the one that is ignorant. Your ingnorant because you did not read what I said. I never said that teachers aren’t hard working. Never. I said that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

I have worked in the education field albiet not as a certified teacher. I have worked on the Pima Indian reservation in Arizona until the casino was put on the reservation they were all dirt poor. I work there before the Casino when it was still dangerous for white people to even be on the Res (admittedly I was not viewed as white due to deep tan from working construction and long black hair… Yes Im a dude). We use to entice them into studying by feeding the poor kids. So yes I do know what the stress level can be of a teacher tutoring impovrised kids from broken homes. For god sakes I tutored the Osif Childern whose parents chopped up the mail-lady in Dec of 84’and sparked the largest FBI manhunt of the time. Those kids were screwed up. BUT stress levels and academics are not the same and not interchangable subjects.

I stated that the two are not equal that is all.

I have also been a math and science tutor in college and had many teachers as students. Many of them I wouldn’t let teach my dog. So yes there is a mixed bag of them and their renumeration should be reflected by thier talent. And yes I have meet many engineers that couldn’t think thier way out of a wet paper bag and are over paid for the services they preform… I wish we could eliminate all of them from the industries.

Are you an engineer? If you have been I may take your arguement more chartably.

If not you can’t not know the stress of the circulm and therefore the pride in doing it. I never met anyone who dropped into the engineering circulm that wasn’t already hard science majors so I dispute your arguement that teachers drop into engineering cause they find it easy. My college sweet heart was in teaching… Guess who use to help write her papers? So there again I am familar with the subject matter.

I knew plenty of engineering non-hackers that dropped into business and others. Some of them much smarter than me but couldn’t handle the stress or the work load. Also while in school, engineering and hard sciences is far more difficult and stressful than teaching. The proffesor, literally, have a code of weeding out all non-hackers (maybe nursing and med school). What other circulms are there were the teachers are trying to fail you (ever scored 14 out of 100 on exam and still got a B)? Usually that is why we have an ego coming out of school. We made it through a program that few attempted and even fewer made it out of.

Once you get out of school it is only the stress level that changes. Teaching is more stressful in the work place. Good teachers deserve more pay.

Of course I know at least one engineer that would laugh at that. He worked at Intel which is a meat grinder and later became a HS math teacher. He would gladly tell you which one he prefers for stress.

As for the stats I challenge you. Why do I need to show stats to repudiate my own arguement especially when you did not read my arguement correctly the first time?

I have been on both sides of the fence. What about you? I have formed an opinion based on those experiences and what I have observed working within both. I think that make me a little less ignorant than you.

Regards,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE[/quote]
That you think it is a lot easier academically is two me evidence of ignorance on your part.

In all fairness, “academic” can mean different things in these to occupations.

I have known a lot of engineers and a lot of teachers. Both require a fairly deep understanding of the subject matter. However, most people think that the subject matter is the material being taught.
Its not.
The subject matter for a teacher is the student.
The hardest subjects are the ones in the poorest neighborhoods who don’t really see the purpose in education. Usually the hardest work here is delegated to the lowest-paid workers.

Also, I challenge you to present stats comparing how many people enter engineering programs and are in that profession 10 years later and compare that with teachers.

A whole lot of teachers drop out their first year to become engineers (because they find it easier). I imagine the reverse is true.

Finally, considering most teachers I know work more than 60 hrs per week, I think the argument that they somehow don’t work as hard is kind of dumb.[/quote]

Your the one that is ignorant. Your ingnorant because you did not read what I said. I never said that teachers aren’t hard working. Never. I said that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

I have worked in the education field albiet not as a certified teacher. I have worked on the Pima Indian reservation in Arizona until the casino was put on the reservation they were all dirt poor. I work there before the Casino when it was still dangerous for white people to even be on the Res (admittedly I was not viewed as white due to deep tan from working construction and long black hair… Yes Im a dude). We use to entice them into studying by feeding the poor kids. So yes I do know what the stress level can be of a teacher tutoring impovrised kids from broken homes. For god sakes I tutored the Osif Childern whose parents chopped up the mail-lady in Dec of 84’and sparked the largest FBI manhunt of the time. Those kids were screwed up. BUT stress levels and academics are not the same and not interchangable subjects.

I stated that the two are not equal that is all.

I have also been a math and science tutor in college and had many teachers as students. Many of them I wouldn’t let teach my dog. So yes there is a mixed bag of them and their renumeration should be reflected by thier talent. And yes I have meet many engineers that couldn’t think thier way out of a wet paper bag and are over paid for the services they preform… I wish we could eliminate all of them from the industries.

Are you an engineer? If you have been I may take your arguement more chartably.

If not you can’t not know the stress of the circulm and therefore the pride in doing it. I never met anyone who dropped into the engineering circulm that wasn’t already hard science majors so I dispute your arguement that teachers drop into engineering cause they find it easy. My college sweet heart was in teaching… Guess who use to help write her papers? So there again I am familar with the subject matter.

I knew plenty of engineering non-hackers that dropped into business and others. Some of them much smarter than me but couldn’t handle the stress or the work load. Also while in school, engineering and hard sciences is far more difficult and stressful than teaching. The proffesor, literally, have a code of weeding out all non-hackers (maybe nursing and med school). What other circulms are there were the teachers are trying to fail you (ever scored 14 out of 100 on exam and still got a B)? Usually that is why we have an ego coming out of school. We made it through a program that few attempted and even fewer made it out of.

Once you get out of school it is only the stress level that changes. Teaching is more stressful in the work place. Good teachers deserve more pay.

Of course I know at least one engineer that would laugh at that. He worked at Intel which is a meat grinder and later became a HS math teacher. He would gladly tell you which one he prefers for stress.

As for the stats I challenge you. Why do I need to show stats to repudiate my own arguement especially when you did not read my arguement correctly the first time?

I have been on both sides of the fence. What about you? I have formed an opinion based on those experiences and what I have observed working within both. I think that make me a little less ignorant than you.

Regards,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE[/quote]
That you think it is a lot easier academically is two me evidence of ignorance on your part.

In all fairness, “academic” can mean different things in these to occupations.

I have known a lot of engineers and a lot of teachers. Both require a fairly deep understanding of the subject matter. However, most people think that the subject matter is the material being taught.
Its not.
The subject matter for a teacher is the student.
The hardest subjects are the ones in the poorest neighborhoods who don’t really see the purpose in education. Usually the hardest work here is delegated to the lowest-paid workers.

Also, I challenge you to present stats comparing how many people enter engineering programs and are in that profession 10 years later and compare that with teachers.

A whole lot of teachers drop out their first year to become engineers (because they find it easier). I imagine the reverse is true.

Finally, considering most teachers I know work more than 60 hrs per week, I think the argument that they somehow don’t work as hard is kind of dumb.[/quote]

Your the one that is ignorant. Your ingnorant because you did not read what I said. I never said that teachers aren’t hard working. Never. I said that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

I have worked in the education field albiet not as a certified teacher. I have worked on the Pima Indian reservation in Arizona until the casino was put on the reservation they were all dirt poor. I work there before the Casino when it was still dangerous for white people to even be on the Res (admittedly I was not viewed as white due to deep tan from working construction and long black hair… Yes Im a dude). We use to entice them into studying by feeding the poor kids. So yes I do know what the stress level can be of a teacher tutoring impovrised kids from broken homes. For god sakes I tutored the Osif Childern whose parents chopped up the mail-lady in Dec of 84’and sparked the largest FBI manhunt of the time. Those kids were screwed up. BUT stress levels and academics are not the same and not interchangable subjects.

I stated that the two are not equal that is all.

I have also been a math and science tutor in college and had many teachers as students. Many of them I wouldn’t let teach my dog. So yes there is a mixed bag of them and their renumeration should be reflected by thier talent. And yes I have meet many engineers that couldn’t think thier way out of a wet paper bag and are over paid for the services they preform… I wish we could eliminate all of them from the industries.

Are you an engineer? If you have been I may take your arguement more chartably.

If not you can’t not know the stress of the circulm and therefore the pride in doing it. I never met anyone who dropped into the engineering circulm that wasn’t already hard science majors so I dispute your arguement that teachers drop into engineering cause they find it easy. My college sweet heart was in teaching… Guess who use to help write her papers? So there again I am familar with the subject matter.

I knew plenty of engineering non-hackers that dropped into business and others. Some of them much smarter than me but couldn’t handle the stress or the work load. Also while in school, engineering and hard sciences is far more difficult and stressful than teaching. The proffesor, literally, have a code of weeding out all non-hackers (maybe nursing and med school). What other circulms are there were the teachers are trying to fail you (ever scored 14 out of 100 on exam and still got a B)? Usually that is why we have an ego coming out of school. We made it through a program that few attempted and even fewer made it out of.

Once you get out of school it is only the stress level that changes. Teaching is more stressful in the work place. Good teachers deserve more pay.

Of course I know at least one engineer that would laugh at that. He worked at Intel which is a meat grinder and later became a HS math teacher. He would gladly tell you which one he prefers for stress.

As for the stats I challenge you. Why do I need to show stats to repudiate my own arguement especially when you did not read my arguement correctly the first time?

I have been on both sides of the fence. What about you? I have formed an opinion based on those experiences and what I have observed working within both. I think that make me a little less ignorant than you.

Regards,

CE

[dbapig]

[quote=CONCHO]You people crack me up. Arguing about whether someone deserves to make $100K or $70K a year or whatever. Meanwhile the hedge fund managers and Goldman Sachs goons are raking in millions a year by gutting your country and stealing your tax money. Nary a peep about whether they’re overpaid, let’s instead focus on a principal making $150K or a teacher making $70K or whatever.

This country is doomed! Back to sleep, everyone…[/quote]

That gave me a great idea. Let’s tax the hedge fund managers and Goldmine Sachs and the proceeds will go exclusively to paying teachers $100,000 annual salary. I’m pretty sure Goldmine Sachs won’t mind since giving the little kids good education is doing ‘God’s work’.

[dbapig]

[quote=CONCHO]You people crack me up. Arguing about whether someone deserves to make $100K or $70K a year or whatever. Meanwhile the hedge fund managers and Goldman Sachs goons are raking in millions a year by gutting your country and stealing your tax money. Nary a peep about whether they’re overpaid, let’s instead focus on a principal making $150K or a teacher making $70K or whatever.

This country is doomed! Back to sleep, everyone…[/quote]

That gave me a great idea. Let’s tax the hedge fund managers and Goldmine Sachs and the proceeds will go exclusively to paying teachers $100,000 annual salary. I’m pretty sure Goldmine Sachs won’t mind since giving the little kids good education is doing ‘God’s work’.

[dbapig]

[quote=CONCHO]You people crack me up. Arguing about whether someone deserves to make $100K or $70K a year or whatever. Meanwhile the hedge fund managers and Goldman Sachs goons are raking in millions a year by gutting your country and stealing your tax money. Nary a peep about whether they’re overpaid, let’s instead focus on a principal making $150K or a teacher making $70K or whatever.

This country is doomed! Back to sleep, everyone…[/quote]

That gave me a great idea. Let’s tax the hedge fund managers and Goldmine Sachs and the proceeds will go exclusively to paying teachers $100,000 annual salary. I’m pretty sure Goldmine Sachs won’t mind since giving the little kids good education is doing ‘God’s work’.

[dbapig]

[quote=CONCHO]You people crack me up. Arguing about whether someone deserves to make $100K or $70K a year or whatever. Meanwhile the hedge fund managers and Goldman Sachs goons are raking in millions a year by gutting your country and stealing your tax money. Nary a peep about whether they’re overpaid, let’s instead focus on a principal making $150K or a teacher making $70K or whatever.

This country is doomed! Back to sleep, everyone…[/quote]

That gave me a great idea. Let’s tax the hedge fund managers and Goldmine Sachs and the proceeds will go exclusively to paying teachers $100,000 annual salary. I’m pretty sure Goldmine Sachs won’t mind since giving the little kids good education is doing ‘God’s work’.

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