How to Buy w/out a Realtor?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=captcha]You are not suggesting that a listing agent acting as my buyer’s agent would forget to disclose information like that? That would be breach of his/hers fiduciary duty. [/quote]

What I’m suggesting here, captcha, is that upon listing a property non-institutional sellers ARE SUPPOSED TO BY LAW disclose everything they know about the property in keeping with the format of the Transfer Disclosure Statement. Whatever they disclose, their listing agent is privy to, as are all potential buyers. HOWEVER, the items sellers CHOOSE NOT to reveal about their property (either deliberately or the item/issue was not dealt with in the TDS) IS NOT known by the listing agent unless he/she has other means to know it. Here, it would be difficult to later prove if the listing agent was culpable in a “Breach of Fiduciary Duty” cause of action against them. In any case, the listing agent’s fiduciary duty lies with the seller, not the buyer. I’m saying here that the listing agent could be truly ignorant and that would be their defense. The liability for failure to disclose would fall to the sellers then, who would NOT be typically insured by E&O insurance.

[quote=captcha]Seriously, the information you are talking about is not that exclusive, even assuming it’s known to the imaginary buyer’s agent. It would take a chat or two with neighbors and if you had a chance to do your homework and you rented in the area for a year or two with the intention to buy you would not even need to chat. [/quote]

Actually, captcha, renting in an area you are considering purchasing in is a great idea. While you are a tenant, you should get to know as many neighbors as possible, the longer the residency, the better. It would also give you more time to do any needed research should you learn something from a neighbor that you want to check out further. Who knows, maybe your landlord will later sell directly to you without ANY AGENTS!

[quote=captcha]And the buyer’s agent will save $450 inspection fee? Or the appraisal fee? Or refund the fee if the appraisal comes in too low? [/quote]

No, captcha, a buyer’s agent who is properly guiding you WILL KEEP YOU AWAY from making offers of problematic properties IN THE FIRST PLACE so you don’t waste your time and money.

What’s that service worth to you??

[quote=captcha]Did you read my post? I did receive concrete added value, I got my offer accepted. [/quote]

What appears to have happened to you, captcha, is that the particular buyer’s agents you engaged fell down in their jobs in a number of categories, namely:

They wrote your offer to purchase with too many contingencies given the current condition and status of the property;

they did not submit a lender pre-approval letter (best if signed by an underwriter) with your offer package;

they did not ensure that the sellers ACTUALLY considered your offer;

they counseled you to lowball too low to make (a short sale) deal work;

and most fatal; they may HAVE NOT PUT A CLOSE-IN EXPIRATION DATE on your offer.

I can think of several more but that’s just the beginning of a number of reasons why you possibly could have been “jerked around” by listing agents before you went “direct.” Did you use highly-experienced neighborhood agents for your buyers agents?

[quote=captcha]No kidding? They paid 3% and they did not get their monies worth? (wrt “seller pays commission” – whoever got paid got a chunk of money I brought to the table, I paid them all)[/quote]

Yes, technically, it is true that the buyer paid all the RE professionals involved in the successful sale of a property (with their purchase money, whether cash or borrowed). However, a court would see it as the seller’s duty to pay the commission. You, as a buyer, don’t receive any additional “worth” from engaging a seller’s listing agent to represent you. In fact, doing so may prove to be to your detriment.

[sdrealtor]

Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would. I have been involved in more transactions and can say this witha large body of evidence. How many transactions have you been a part of?

FYI, when I say the system works I am just addressing the buying and selling of real properties. I am not addressing the mortgage market or what happens to loans before and after they are made. My business depends upon that but it is NOT my business.

I dont beleive I hold any annointed place and many of you who took the time to learn about residentail RE transactions and got the experience under thier belts of a few dozen could probably do it also.

Lastly, I am not threated in any way. I have multiple master degrees, an inactive CPA and experience earning far mroe than I do in RE. If I ever decided I no longer wanted to do this, I would have plenty of options.
I’m not saying their arent improvements to make and when

[sdrealtor]

Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would. I have been involved in more transactions and can say this witha large body of evidence. How many transactions have you been a part of?

FYI, when I say the system works I am just addressing the buying and selling of real properties. I am not addressing the mortgage market or what happens to loans before and after they are made. My business depends upon that but it is NOT my business.

I dont beleive I hold any annointed place and many of you who took the time to learn about residentail RE transactions and got the experience under thier belts of a few dozen could probably do it also.

Lastly, I am not threated in any way. I have multiple master degrees, an inactive CPA and experience earning far mroe than I do in RE. If I ever decided I no longer wanted to do this, I would have plenty of options.
I’m not saying their arent improvements to make and when

[sdrealtor]

Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would. I have been involved in more transactions and can say this witha large body of evidence. How many transactions have you been a part of?

FYI, when I say the system works I am just addressing the buying and selling of real properties. I am not addressing the mortgage market or what happens to loans before and after they are made. My business depends upon that but it is NOT my business.

I dont beleive I hold any annointed place and many of you who took the time to learn about residentail RE transactions and got the experience under thier belts of a few dozen could probably do it also.

Lastly, I am not threated in any way. I have multiple master degrees, an inactive CPA and experience earning far mroe than I do in RE. If I ever decided I no longer wanted to do this, I would have plenty of options.
I’m not saying their arent improvements to make and when

[sdrealtor]

Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would. I have been involved in more transactions and can say this witha large body of evidence. How many transactions have you been a part of?

FYI, when I say the system works I am just addressing the buying and selling of real properties. I am not addressing the mortgage market or what happens to loans before and after they are made. My business depends upon that but it is NOT my business.

I dont beleive I hold any annointed place and many of you who took the time to learn about residentail RE transactions and got the experience under thier belts of a few dozen could probably do it also.

Lastly, I am not threated in any way. I have multiple master degrees, an inactive CPA and experience earning far mroe than I do in RE. If I ever decided I no longer wanted to do this, I would have plenty of options.
I’m not saying their arent improvements to make and when

[sdrealtor]

Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would. I have been involved in more transactions and can say this witha large body of evidence. How many transactions have you been a part of?

FYI, when I say the system works I am just addressing the buying and selling of real properties. I am not addressing the mortgage market or what happens to loans before and after they are made. My business depends upon that but it is NOT my business.

I dont beleive I hold any annointed place and many of you who took the time to learn about residentail RE transactions and got the experience under thier belts of a few dozen could probably do it also.

Lastly, I am not threated in any way. I have multiple master degrees, an inactive CPA and experience earning far mroe than I do in RE. If I ever decided I no longer wanted to do this, I would have plenty of options.
I’m not saying their arent improvements to make and when

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?[/quote]

Actually, no, drboom, I don’t feel “threatened” at all. If it made your problematic deal work and was a win-win for both of you, then it appears that a full-service agent made a business decision to kick you back half their commission to get the deal done. The listing agent actually made less out of the sale than you did because he had expenses and possibly commission splits to boot! So, count yourself lucky here.

1% of a purchase price is real $$ to me, too. But let’s just dissect this 1% a little. We will presume here an 80/20 deal with a 5.5% 30 yr. fixed-rate mortgage, a total tax rate of 1.15634 and a $1000 deductible replacement-value fire policy (no earthquake coverage). Monthly costs of owning are shown below:

Your $400K sale now becomes $396K.

$400K Downpayment: $80,000
$400K P&I: $1817.60
$400K T: $385.44
$400K I: $74.59

Total($400K) PITI = $2,277.63

$396K Downpayment: $79,200
$396K P&I: $1,799.42
$396K T: $381.55
$396K I: $73.85

Total ($396K)PITI = $2,254.82

The monthly payment difference is $22.81 between a $396K and $400K purchase price.

Or, in the alternative, your $500K sale now becomes $495K.

$500K Downpayment $100,000
$500K P&I $2,272.00
$500K T: $481.76
$500K I: $82.88

Total ($500K) PITI = $2,836.64

$495K Downpayment $99,000
$495K P&I: $2,249.28
$495K T: $476.94
$495K I: $82.07

Total ($495K) PITI = $2,808.29

The monthly payment difference is $28.35 between a $495K and $500K purchase price.

If I made any math mistakes here, I’m sure an astute Pigg will find it.

Of course, if you got a better interest rate than 5.5% or your purchase price was under $396K, the difference would be lower.

***********************************************

Hey, drboom?? You still haven’t indicated here whether or not your veteran agent/relative is still speaking to you and/or your wife.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?[/quote]

Actually, no, drboom, I don’t feel “threatened” at all. If it made your problematic deal work and was a win-win for both of you, then it appears that a full-service agent made a business decision to kick you back half their commission to get the deal done. The listing agent actually made less out of the sale than you did because he had expenses and possibly commission splits to boot! So, count yourself lucky here.

1% of a purchase price is real $$ to me, too. But let’s just dissect this 1% a little. We will presume here an 80/20 deal with a 5.5% 30 yr. fixed-rate mortgage, a total tax rate of 1.15634 and a $1000 deductible replacement-value fire policy (no earthquake coverage). Monthly costs of owning are shown below:

Your $400K sale now becomes $396K.

$400K Downpayment: $80,000
$400K P&I: $1817.60
$400K T: $385.44
$400K I: $74.59

Total($400K) PITI = $2,277.63

$396K Downpayment: $79,200
$396K P&I: $1,799.42
$396K T: $381.55
$396K I: $73.85

Total ($396K)PITI = $2,254.82

The monthly payment difference is $22.81 between a $396K and $400K purchase price.

Or, in the alternative, your $500K sale now becomes $495K.

$500K Downpayment $100,000
$500K P&I $2,272.00
$500K T: $481.76
$500K I: $82.88

Total ($500K) PITI = $2,836.64

$495K Downpayment $99,000
$495K P&I: $2,249.28
$495K T: $476.94
$495K I: $82.07

Total ($495K) PITI = $2,808.29

The monthly payment difference is $28.35 between a $495K and $500K purchase price.

If I made any math mistakes here, I’m sure an astute Pigg will find it.

Of course, if you got a better interest rate than 5.5% or your purchase price was under $396K, the difference would be lower.

***********************************************

Hey, drboom?? You still haven’t indicated here whether or not your veteran agent/relative is still speaking to you and/or your wife.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?[/quote]

Actually, no, drboom, I don’t feel “threatened” at all. If it made your problematic deal work and was a win-win for both of you, then it appears that a full-service agent made a business decision to kick you back half their commission to get the deal done. The listing agent actually made less out of the sale than you did because he had expenses and possibly commission splits to boot! So, count yourself lucky here.

1% of a purchase price is real $$ to me, too. But let’s just dissect this 1% a little. We will presume here an 80/20 deal with a 5.5% 30 yr. fixed-rate mortgage, a total tax rate of 1.15634 and a $1000 deductible replacement-value fire policy (no earthquake coverage). Monthly costs of owning are shown below:

Your $400K sale now becomes $396K.

$400K Downpayment: $80,000
$400K P&I: $1817.60
$400K T: $385.44
$400K I: $74.59

Total($400K) PITI = $2,277.63

$396K Downpayment: $79,200
$396K P&I: $1,799.42
$396K T: $381.55
$396K I: $73.85

Total ($396K)PITI = $2,254.82

The monthly payment difference is $22.81 between a $396K and $400K purchase price.

Or, in the alternative, your $500K sale now becomes $495K.

$500K Downpayment $100,000
$500K P&I $2,272.00
$500K T: $481.76
$500K I: $82.88

Total ($500K) PITI = $2,836.64

$495K Downpayment $99,000
$495K P&I: $2,249.28
$495K T: $476.94
$495K I: $82.07

Total ($495K) PITI = $2,808.29

The monthly payment difference is $28.35 between a $495K and $500K purchase price.

If I made any math mistakes here, I’m sure an astute Pigg will find it.

Of course, if you got a better interest rate than 5.5% or your purchase price was under $396K, the difference would be lower.

***********************************************

Hey, drboom?? You still haven’t indicated here whether or not your veteran agent/relative is still speaking to you and/or your wife.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?[/quote]

Actually, no, drboom, I don’t feel “threatened” at all. If it made your problematic deal work and was a win-win for both of you, then it appears that a full-service agent made a business decision to kick you back half their commission to get the deal done. The listing agent actually made less out of the sale than you did because he had expenses and possibly commission splits to boot! So, count yourself lucky here.

1% of a purchase price is real $$ to me, too. But let’s just dissect this 1% a little. We will presume here an 80/20 deal with a 5.5% 30 yr. fixed-rate mortgage, a total tax rate of 1.15634 and a $1000 deductible replacement-value fire policy (no earthquake coverage). Monthly costs of owning are shown below:

Your $400K sale now becomes $396K.

$400K Downpayment: $80,000
$400K P&I: $1817.60
$400K T: $385.44
$400K I: $74.59

Total($400K) PITI = $2,277.63

$396K Downpayment: $79,200
$396K P&I: $1,799.42
$396K T: $381.55
$396K I: $73.85

Total ($396K)PITI = $2,254.82

The monthly payment difference is $22.81 between a $396K and $400K purchase price.

Or, in the alternative, your $500K sale now becomes $495K.

$500K Downpayment $100,000
$500K P&I $2,272.00
$500K T: $481.76
$500K I: $82.88

Total ($500K) PITI = $2,836.64

$495K Downpayment $99,000
$495K P&I: $2,249.28
$495K T: $476.94
$495K I: $82.07

Total ($495K) PITI = $2,808.29

The monthly payment difference is $28.35 between a $495K and $500K purchase price.

If I made any math mistakes here, I’m sure an astute Pigg will find it.

Of course, if you got a better interest rate than 5.5% or your purchase price was under $396K, the difference would be lower.

***********************************************

Hey, drboom?? You still haven’t indicated here whether or not your veteran agent/relative is still speaking to you and/or your wife.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?[/quote]

Actually, no, drboom, I don’t feel “threatened” at all. If it made your problematic deal work and was a win-win for both of you, then it appears that a full-service agent made a business decision to kick you back half their commission to get the deal done. The listing agent actually made less out of the sale than you did because he had expenses and possibly commission splits to boot! So, count yourself lucky here.

1% of a purchase price is real $$ to me, too. But let’s just dissect this 1% a little. We will presume here an 80/20 deal with a 5.5% 30 yr. fixed-rate mortgage, a total tax rate of 1.15634 and a $1000 deductible replacement-value fire policy (no earthquake coverage). Monthly costs of owning are shown below:

Your $400K sale now becomes $396K.

$400K Downpayment: $80,000
$400K P&I: $1817.60
$400K T: $385.44
$400K I: $74.59

Total($400K) PITI = $2,277.63

$396K Downpayment: $79,200
$396K P&I: $1,799.42
$396K T: $381.55
$396K I: $73.85

Total ($396K)PITI = $2,254.82

The monthly payment difference is $22.81 between a $396K and $400K purchase price.

Or, in the alternative, your $500K sale now becomes $495K.

$500K Downpayment $100,000
$500K P&I $2,272.00
$500K T: $481.76
$500K I: $82.88

Total ($500K) PITI = $2,836.64

$495K Downpayment $99,000
$495K P&I: $2,249.28
$495K T: $476.94
$495K I: $82.07

Total ($495K) PITI = $2,808.29

The monthly payment difference is $28.35 between a $495K and $500K purchase price.

If I made any math mistakes here, I’m sure an astute Pigg will find it.

Of course, if you got a better interest rate than 5.5% or your purchase price was under $396K, the difference would be lower.

***********************************************

Hey, drboom?? You still haven’t indicated here whether or not your veteran agent/relative is still speaking to you and/or your wife.

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would.[/quote]

That’s quite an assertion.

In the words of our kind host:

[quote]
In God We Trust.
Everyone Else Bring Data.
[/quote]

I assume you have some facts, or at least some economic theory, to back up your position. I encourage you to post them to a new thread–we’ve ventured far enough off the current topic, haven’t we?

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would.[/quote]

That’s quite an assertion.

In the words of our kind host:

[quote]
In God We Trust.
Everyone Else Bring Data.
[/quote]

I assume you have some facts, or at least some economic theory, to back up your position. I encourage you to post them to a new thread–we’ve ventured far enough off the current topic, haven’t we?

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would.[/quote]

That’s quite an assertion.

In the words of our kind host:

[quote]
In God We Trust.
Everyone Else Bring Data.
[/quote]

I assume you have some facts, or at least some economic theory, to back up your position. I encourage you to post them to a new thread–we’ve ventured far enough off the current topic, haven’t we?

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]Absolutely and I would gladly make it again. Its not a perfect system and it has plenty of flaws but it works much better than a system without RE agents involved would.[/quote]

That’s quite an assertion.

In the words of our kind host:

[quote]
In God We Trust.
Everyone Else Bring Data.
[/quote]

I assume you have some facts, or at least some economic theory, to back up your position. I encourage you to post them to a new thread–we’ve ventured far enough off the current topic, haven’t we?

[Author]

Posts