How to Buy w/out a Realtor?

[bearishgurl]

drboom, was the property you just described here on this thread the first property you ever purchased? This is neither positive or negative but . . . just wondering.

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, it appears from your post, above, that you ended up purchasing a property that had been close to default, (snip)[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The day after BofA tried to screw his seller, the listing agent on the first short sale drove out and pulled up his sign. He had been involved with the listing for a grand total of 4 months. He then made his fee split offer, and we did a deal on another completely unrelated house.

Why are you trying to put the worst construction on this? Are you, like sdr, threatened by the notion that your services aren’t essential to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[quote]Just wondering though . . . How does your wife’s relative feel about you both now after he was cut out of the commission on that deal?[/quote]

He was pissed, and so were a couple of other family members, but they got over it. It’s better than having him hose us on a deal, which he was bidding fair to do, and end up never speaking to him again.

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, it appears from your post, above, that you ended up purchasing a property that had been close to default, (snip)[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The day after BofA tried to screw his seller, the listing agent on the first short sale drove out and pulled up his sign. He had been involved with the listing for a grand total of 4 months. He then made his fee split offer, and we did a deal on another completely unrelated house.

Why are you trying to put the worst construction on this? Are you, like sdr, threatened by the notion that your services aren’t essential to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[quote]Just wondering though . . . How does your wife’s relative feel about you both now after he was cut out of the commission on that deal?[/quote]

He was pissed, and so were a couple of other family members, but they got over it. It’s better than having him hose us on a deal, which he was bidding fair to do, and end up never speaking to him again.

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, it appears from your post, above, that you ended up purchasing a property that had been close to default, (snip)[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The day after BofA tried to screw his seller, the listing agent on the first short sale drove out and pulled up his sign. He had been involved with the listing for a grand total of 4 months. He then made his fee split offer, and we did a deal on another completely unrelated house.

Why are you trying to put the worst construction on this? Are you, like sdr, threatened by the notion that your services aren’t essential to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[quote]Just wondering though . . . How does your wife’s relative feel about you both now after he was cut out of the commission on that deal?[/quote]

He was pissed, and so were a couple of other family members, but they got over it. It’s better than having him hose us on a deal, which he was bidding fair to do, and end up never speaking to him again.

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, it appears from your post, above, that you ended up purchasing a property that had been close to default, (snip)[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The day after BofA tried to screw his seller, the listing agent on the first short sale drove out and pulled up his sign. He had been involved with the listing for a grand total of 4 months. He then made his fee split offer, and we did a deal on another completely unrelated house.

Why are you trying to put the worst construction on this? Are you, like sdr, threatened by the notion that your services aren’t essential to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[quote]Just wondering though . . . How does your wife’s relative feel about you both now after he was cut out of the commission on that deal?[/quote]

He was pissed, and so were a couple of other family members, but they got over it. It’s better than having him hose us on a deal, which he was bidding fair to do, and end up never speaking to him again.

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, it appears from your post, above, that you ended up purchasing a property that had been close to default, (snip)[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The day after BofA tried to screw his seller, the listing agent on the first short sale drove out and pulled up his sign. He had been involved with the listing for a grand total of 4 months. He then made his fee split offer, and we did a deal on another completely unrelated house.

Why are you trying to put the worst construction on this? Are you, like sdr, threatened by the notion that your services aren’t essential to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[quote]Just wondering though . . . How does your wife’s relative feel about you both now after he was cut out of the commission on that deal?[/quote]

He was pissed, and so were a couple of other family members, but they got over it. It’s better than having him hose us on a deal, which he was bidding fair to do, and end up never speaking to him again.

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, let me ask you . . . Do you HONESTLY THINK that you can get a seller to reduce his price more if you make an offer on their property using his/her listing agent when THEY HAVE ALREADY SIGNED an Exclusive Authorization and Right to Sell contract with that listing agent for AN AGREED UPON COMMISSION to his/her broker (or him/her directly, if they ARE the listing broker)??

Your sellers have to pay the set amount of commission THEY HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO upon the successful close of escrow. It makes no difference to them WHO procures the buyer.

Think about it.[/quote]

You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, let me ask you . . . Do you HONESTLY THINK that you can get a seller to reduce his price more if you make an offer on their property using his/her listing agent when THEY HAVE ALREADY SIGNED an Exclusive Authorization and Right to Sell contract with that listing agent for AN AGREED UPON COMMISSION to his/her broker (or him/her directly, if they ARE the listing broker)??

Your sellers have to pay the set amount of commission THEY HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO upon the successful close of escrow. It makes no difference to them WHO procures the buyer.

Think about it.[/quote]

You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, let me ask you . . . Do you HONESTLY THINK that you can get a seller to reduce his price more if you make an offer on their property using his/her listing agent when THEY HAVE ALREADY SIGNED an Exclusive Authorization and Right to Sell contract with that listing agent for AN AGREED UPON COMMISSION to his/her broker (or him/her directly, if they ARE the listing broker)??

Your sellers have to pay the set amount of commission THEY HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO upon the successful close of escrow. It makes no difference to them WHO procures the buyer.

Think about it.[/quote]

You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, let me ask you . . . Do you HONESTLY THINK that you can get a seller to reduce his price more if you make an offer on their property using his/her listing agent when THEY HAVE ALREADY SIGNED an Exclusive Authorization and Right to Sell contract with that listing agent for AN AGREED UPON COMMISSION to his/her broker (or him/her directly, if they ARE the listing broker)??

Your sellers have to pay the set amount of commission THEY HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO upon the successful close of escrow. It makes no difference to them WHO procures the buyer.

Think about it.[/quote]

You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?

[drboom]

[quote=bearishgurl]
drboom, let me ask you . . . Do you HONESTLY THINK that you can get a seller to reduce his price more if you make an offer on their property using his/her listing agent when THEY HAVE ALREADY SIGNED an Exclusive Authorization and Right to Sell contract with that listing agent for AN AGREED UPON COMMISSION to his/her broker (or him/her directly, if they ARE the listing broker)??

Your sellers have to pay the set amount of commission THEY HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO upon the successful close of escrow. It makes no difference to them WHO procures the buyer.

Think about it.[/quote]

You can argue semantics all you want, but I did in fact pay 1% less than I would have if I had been a good boy and followed the rules. Maybe you’re too rich to care, but that’s real money to me. I know it’s just a discount on the commission that I, as a buyer, am paying (see my previous post) so I don’t fool myself into thinking it’s “found money”.

Do you feel threatened by that?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=captcha]You are not suggesting that a listing agent acting as my buyer’s agent would forget to disclose information like that? That would be breach of his/hers fiduciary duty. [/quote]

What I’m suggesting here, captcha, is that upon listing a property non-institutional sellers ARE SUPPOSED TO BY LAW disclose everything they know about the property in keeping with the format of the Transfer Disclosure Statement. Whatever they disclose, their listing agent is privy to, as are all potential buyers. HOWEVER, the items sellers CHOOSE NOT to reveal about their property (either deliberately or the item/issue was not dealt with in the TDS) IS NOT known by the listing agent unless he/she has other means to know it. Here, it would be difficult to later prove if the listing agent was culpable in a “Breach of Fiduciary Duty” cause of action against them. In any case, the listing agent’s fiduciary duty lies with the seller, not the buyer. I’m saying here that the listing agent could be truly ignorant and that would be their defense. The liability for failure to disclose would fall to the sellers then, who would NOT be typically insured by E&O insurance.

[quote=captcha]Seriously, the information you are talking about is not that exclusive, even assuming it’s known to the imaginary buyer’s agent. It would take a chat or two with neighbors and if you had a chance to do your homework and you rented in the area for a year or two with the intention to buy you would not even need to chat. [/quote]

Actually, captcha, renting in an area you are considering purchasing in is a great idea. While you are a tenant, you should get to know as many neighbors as possible, the longer the residency, the better. It would also give you more time to do any needed research should you learn something from a neighbor that you want to check out further. Who knows, maybe your landlord will later sell directly to you without ANY AGENTS!

[quote=captcha]And the buyer’s agent will save $450 inspection fee? Or the appraisal fee? Or refund the fee if the appraisal comes in too low? [/quote]

No, captcha, a buyer’s agent who is properly guiding you WILL KEEP YOU AWAY from making offers of problematic properties IN THE FIRST PLACE so you don’t waste your time and money.

What’s that service worth to you??

[quote=captcha]Did you read my post? I did receive concrete added value, I got my offer accepted. [/quote]

What appears to have happened to you, captcha, is that the particular buyer’s agents you engaged fell down in their jobs in a number of categories, namely:

They wrote your offer to purchase with too many contingencies given the current condition and status of the property;

they did not submit a lender pre-approval letter (best if signed by an underwriter) with your offer package;

they did not ensure that the sellers ACTUALLY considered your offer;

they counseled you to lowball too low to make (a short sale) deal work;

and most fatal; they may HAVE NOT PUT A CLOSE-IN EXPIRATION DATE on your offer.

I can think of several more but that’s just the beginning of a number of reasons why you possibly could have been “jerked around” by listing agents before you went “direct.” Did you use highly-experienced neighborhood agents for your buyers agents?

[quote=captcha]No kidding? They paid 3% and they did not get their monies worth? (wrt “seller pays commission” – whoever got paid got a chunk of money I brought to the table, I paid them all)[/quote]

Yes, technically, it is true that the buyer paid all the RE professionals involved in the successful sale of a property (with their purchase money, whether cash or borrowed). However, a court would see it as the seller’s duty to pay the commission. You, as a buyer, don’t receive any additional “worth” from engaging a seller’s listing agent to represent you. In fact, doing so may prove to be to your detriment.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=captcha]You are not suggesting that a listing agent acting as my buyer’s agent would forget to disclose information like that? That would be breach of his/hers fiduciary duty. [/quote]

What I’m suggesting here, captcha, is that upon listing a property non-institutional sellers ARE SUPPOSED TO BY LAW disclose everything they know about the property in keeping with the format of the Transfer Disclosure Statement. Whatever they disclose, their listing agent is privy to, as are all potential buyers. HOWEVER, the items sellers CHOOSE NOT to reveal about their property (either deliberately or the item/issue was not dealt with in the TDS) IS NOT known by the listing agent unless he/she has other means to know it. Here, it would be difficult to later prove if the listing agent was culpable in a “Breach of Fiduciary Duty” cause of action against them. In any case, the listing agent’s fiduciary duty lies with the seller, not the buyer. I’m saying here that the listing agent could be truly ignorant and that would be their defense. The liability for failure to disclose would fall to the sellers then, who would NOT be typically insured by E&O insurance.

[quote=captcha]Seriously, the information you are talking about is not that exclusive, even assuming it’s known to the imaginary buyer’s agent. It would take a chat or two with neighbors and if you had a chance to do your homework and you rented in the area for a year or two with the intention to buy you would not even need to chat. [/quote]

Actually, captcha, renting in an area you are considering purchasing in is a great idea. While you are a tenant, you should get to know as many neighbors as possible, the longer the residency, the better. It would also give you more time to do any needed research should you learn something from a neighbor that you want to check out further. Who knows, maybe your landlord will later sell directly to you without ANY AGENTS!

[quote=captcha]And the buyer’s agent will save $450 inspection fee? Or the appraisal fee? Or refund the fee if the appraisal comes in too low? [/quote]

No, captcha, a buyer’s agent who is properly guiding you WILL KEEP YOU AWAY from making offers of problematic properties IN THE FIRST PLACE so you don’t waste your time and money.

What’s that service worth to you??

[quote=captcha]Did you read my post? I did receive concrete added value, I got my offer accepted. [/quote]

What appears to have happened to you, captcha, is that the particular buyer’s agents you engaged fell down in their jobs in a number of categories, namely:

They wrote your offer to purchase with too many contingencies given the current condition and status of the property;

they did not submit a lender pre-approval letter (best if signed by an underwriter) with your offer package;

they did not ensure that the sellers ACTUALLY considered your offer;

they counseled you to lowball too low to make (a short sale) deal work;

and most fatal; they may HAVE NOT PUT A CLOSE-IN EXPIRATION DATE on your offer.

I can think of several more but that’s just the beginning of a number of reasons why you possibly could have been “jerked around” by listing agents before you went “direct.” Did you use highly-experienced neighborhood agents for your buyers agents?

[quote=captcha]No kidding? They paid 3% and they did not get their monies worth? (wrt “seller pays commission” – whoever got paid got a chunk of money I brought to the table, I paid them all)[/quote]

Yes, technically, it is true that the buyer paid all the RE professionals involved in the successful sale of a property (with their purchase money, whether cash or borrowed). However, a court would see it as the seller’s duty to pay the commission. You, as a buyer, don’t receive any additional “worth” from engaging a seller’s listing agent to represent you. In fact, doing so may prove to be to your detriment.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=captcha]You are not suggesting that a listing agent acting as my buyer’s agent would forget to disclose information like that? That would be breach of his/hers fiduciary duty. [/quote]

What I’m suggesting here, captcha, is that upon listing a property non-institutional sellers ARE SUPPOSED TO BY LAW disclose everything they know about the property in keeping with the format of the Transfer Disclosure Statement. Whatever they disclose, their listing agent is privy to, as are all potential buyers. HOWEVER, the items sellers CHOOSE NOT to reveal about their property (either deliberately or the item/issue was not dealt with in the TDS) IS NOT known by the listing agent unless he/she has other means to know it. Here, it would be difficult to later prove if the listing agent was culpable in a “Breach of Fiduciary Duty” cause of action against them. In any case, the listing agent’s fiduciary duty lies with the seller, not the buyer. I’m saying here that the listing agent could be truly ignorant and that would be their defense. The liability for failure to disclose would fall to the sellers then, who would NOT be typically insured by E&O insurance.

[quote=captcha]Seriously, the information you are talking about is not that exclusive, even assuming it’s known to the imaginary buyer’s agent. It would take a chat or two with neighbors and if you had a chance to do your homework and you rented in the area for a year or two with the intention to buy you would not even need to chat. [/quote]

Actually, captcha, renting in an area you are considering purchasing in is a great idea. While you are a tenant, you should get to know as many neighbors as possible, the longer the residency, the better. It would also give you more time to do any needed research should you learn something from a neighbor that you want to check out further. Who knows, maybe your landlord will later sell directly to you without ANY AGENTS!

[quote=captcha]And the buyer’s agent will save $450 inspection fee? Or the appraisal fee? Or refund the fee if the appraisal comes in too low? [/quote]

No, captcha, a buyer’s agent who is properly guiding you WILL KEEP YOU AWAY from making offers of problematic properties IN THE FIRST PLACE so you don’t waste your time and money.

What’s that service worth to you??

[quote=captcha]Did you read my post? I did receive concrete added value, I got my offer accepted. [/quote]

What appears to have happened to you, captcha, is that the particular buyer’s agents you engaged fell down in their jobs in a number of categories, namely:

They wrote your offer to purchase with too many contingencies given the current condition and status of the property;

they did not submit a lender pre-approval letter (best if signed by an underwriter) with your offer package;

they did not ensure that the sellers ACTUALLY considered your offer;

they counseled you to lowball too low to make (a short sale) deal work;

and most fatal; they may HAVE NOT PUT A CLOSE-IN EXPIRATION DATE on your offer.

I can think of several more but that’s just the beginning of a number of reasons why you possibly could have been “jerked around” by listing agents before you went “direct.” Did you use highly-experienced neighborhood agents for your buyers agents?

[quote=captcha]No kidding? They paid 3% and they did not get their monies worth? (wrt “seller pays commission” – whoever got paid got a chunk of money I brought to the table, I paid them all)[/quote]

Yes, technically, it is true that the buyer paid all the RE professionals involved in the successful sale of a property (with their purchase money, whether cash or borrowed). However, a court would see it as the seller’s duty to pay the commission. You, as a buyer, don’t receive any additional “worth” from engaging a seller’s listing agent to represent you. In fact, doing so may prove to be to your detriment.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=captcha]You are not suggesting that a listing agent acting as my buyer’s agent would forget to disclose information like that? That would be breach of his/hers fiduciary duty. [/quote]

What I’m suggesting here, captcha, is that upon listing a property non-institutional sellers ARE SUPPOSED TO BY LAW disclose everything they know about the property in keeping with the format of the Transfer Disclosure Statement. Whatever they disclose, their listing agent is privy to, as are all potential buyers. HOWEVER, the items sellers CHOOSE NOT to reveal about their property (either deliberately or the item/issue was not dealt with in the TDS) IS NOT known by the listing agent unless he/she has other means to know it. Here, it would be difficult to later prove if the listing agent was culpable in a “Breach of Fiduciary Duty” cause of action against them. In any case, the listing agent’s fiduciary duty lies with the seller, not the buyer. I’m saying here that the listing agent could be truly ignorant and that would be their defense. The liability for failure to disclose would fall to the sellers then, who would NOT be typically insured by E&O insurance.

[quote=captcha]Seriously, the information you are talking about is not that exclusive, even assuming it’s known to the imaginary buyer’s agent. It would take a chat or two with neighbors and if you had a chance to do your homework and you rented in the area for a year or two with the intention to buy you would not even need to chat. [/quote]

Actually, captcha, renting in an area you are considering purchasing in is a great idea. While you are a tenant, you should get to know as many neighbors as possible, the longer the residency, the better. It would also give you more time to do any needed research should you learn something from a neighbor that you want to check out further. Who knows, maybe your landlord will later sell directly to you without ANY AGENTS!

[quote=captcha]And the buyer’s agent will save $450 inspection fee? Or the appraisal fee? Or refund the fee if the appraisal comes in too low? [/quote]

No, captcha, a buyer’s agent who is properly guiding you WILL KEEP YOU AWAY from making offers of problematic properties IN THE FIRST PLACE so you don’t waste your time and money.

What’s that service worth to you??

[quote=captcha]Did you read my post? I did receive concrete added value, I got my offer accepted. [/quote]

What appears to have happened to you, captcha, is that the particular buyer’s agents you engaged fell down in their jobs in a number of categories, namely:

They wrote your offer to purchase with too many contingencies given the current condition and status of the property;

they did not submit a lender pre-approval letter (best if signed by an underwriter) with your offer package;

they did not ensure that the sellers ACTUALLY considered your offer;

they counseled you to lowball too low to make (a short sale) deal work;

and most fatal; they may HAVE NOT PUT A CLOSE-IN EXPIRATION DATE on your offer.

I can think of several more but that’s just the beginning of a number of reasons why you possibly could have been “jerked around” by listing agents before you went “direct.” Did you use highly-experienced neighborhood agents for your buyers agents?

[quote=captcha]No kidding? They paid 3% and they did not get their monies worth? (wrt “seller pays commission” – whoever got paid got a chunk of money I brought to the table, I paid them all)[/quote]

Yes, technically, it is true that the buyer paid all the RE professionals involved in the successful sale of a property (with their purchase money, whether cash or borrowed). However, a court would see it as the seller’s duty to pay the commission. You, as a buyer, don’t receive any additional “worth” from engaging a seller’s listing agent to represent you. In fact, doing so may prove to be to your detriment.

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