How to Buy w/out a Realtor?

[CA renter]

[quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]Pretty much every buyer that has tried to go direct to me as a listing agent has been an utter waste of my time. When I have a lisitng I know I’ll get paid on one side which is enough for me. I’d rather spend my time trying to help buyers I know, like and respect. I’ve yet to meet one of those who tried to go direct. They all seem to have hidden agendasa that i dont have time for. They seem to like to think they are smarter than agents and figure than can outsmart us by going direct. Of course, thats not true and I know they are pulling the same pile of *(&(*& with a dozen other agents that they are calling also. I say good luck to them. Your quote that “I would expect that person to be more knowledgeable than an average buyer” is exactly the attitude I see from them. The smartest buyers have the best representation not NO representation.
[/quote]

Let me offer a counterpoint: my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.

Long story short, we had a short sale that fell apart in the approval process (stupid BofA: the house is still vacant and on their books 18 months later). The seller’s agent on that deal asked us if we were interested in having him represent us on a 50% commission split; he knew we had the research squared away and that we wouldn’t waste his time. He’d proven himself to be a true professional throughout the deal, so we were happy to engage him. I’ve told the story elsewhere, but the short of it is that he showed us exactly one house and wrote exactly one offer (OK, and one counter) for us. The sale closed three months later (short sale). Easy money.

I understand you have to play the odds, but realize that some buyers might not have an agent precisely because they are serious and feel that too many in the RE biz do not act in their best interests.

Or maybe we’re just unique, like delicate snowflakes. :-)[/quote]

I’m with drboom. While some **good** longtime agents are worth their commissions, so many of them are transplants from somewhere else or are new to the business and know far less than an educated buyer. Many agents are simply stupid, and don’t bring anything at all to the table. Not all buyers are idiots; some are far more familiar with the territory, demographic trends, and pricing history than many agents.

We’ve seen fairly large mistakes made on contracts, and have known agents who had absolutely no local knowledge about certain neighborhoods or tracts. We’ve also had agents who lost deals for us, so I’m not at all impressed with agents, as a rule. Need we even bring up what most agents were telling their buyers during the 2003-2007 era? (Bid higher, higher, higher!)

The only reason we’re not FBs is because I did my own research. There wasn’t a single agent out there who told us not to buy during the bubble (I know some here did so, but trust me, there were very few agents telling people about the bubble).

[drboom]

I was going to refrain from adding yet more to this thread, but I can’t let this pass on Piggington of all places (emphasis added):

[quote=bearishgurl]What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice.[/quote]

Does anyone really believe there’s no cost to the buyer? I know the rather short history of “buyers’ agents”, and I’ve heard all the arguments from the RE industry. I’m the opposite of convinced.

It’s obvious that buyers pay most of the real estate industry’s monopoly rents because sellers, as a rule, factor commissions into their selling price. If you want proof, go ask your sellers if they would take less in a FSBO deal that had no commissions.

The worst part is that because commissions are part of the “purchase price”, they get rolled into the mortgage (yay, I get to pay double or more for my “no cost” services) and inflate the valuation for property taxes (hooray, I get to pay for my “no cost” services in perpetuity!).

There, I feel better.

[drboom]

I was going to refrain from adding yet more to this thread, but I can’t let this pass on Piggington of all places (emphasis added):

[quote=bearishgurl]What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice.[/quote]

Does anyone really believe there’s no cost to the buyer? I know the rather short history of “buyers’ agents”, and I’ve heard all the arguments from the RE industry. I’m the opposite of convinced.

It’s obvious that buyers pay most of the real estate industry’s monopoly rents because sellers, as a rule, factor commissions into their selling price. If you want proof, go ask your sellers if they would take less in a FSBO deal that had no commissions.

The worst part is that because commissions are part of the “purchase price”, they get rolled into the mortgage (yay, I get to pay double or more for my “no cost” services) and inflate the valuation for property taxes (hooray, I get to pay for my “no cost” services in perpetuity!).

There, I feel better.

[drboom]

I was going to refrain from adding yet more to this thread, but I can’t let this pass on Piggington of all places (emphasis added):

[quote=bearishgurl]What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice.[/quote]

Does anyone really believe there’s no cost to the buyer? I know the rather short history of “buyers’ agents”, and I’ve heard all the arguments from the RE industry. I’m the opposite of convinced.

It’s obvious that buyers pay most of the real estate industry’s monopoly rents because sellers, as a rule, factor commissions into their selling price. If you want proof, go ask your sellers if they would take less in a FSBO deal that had no commissions.

The worst part is that because commissions are part of the “purchase price”, they get rolled into the mortgage (yay, I get to pay double or more for my “no cost” services) and inflate the valuation for property taxes (hooray, I get to pay for my “no cost” services in perpetuity!).

There, I feel better.

[drboom]

I was going to refrain from adding yet more to this thread, but I can’t let this pass on Piggington of all places (emphasis added):

[quote=bearishgurl]What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice.[/quote]

Does anyone really believe there’s no cost to the buyer? I know the rather short history of “buyers’ agents”, and I’ve heard all the arguments from the RE industry. I’m the opposite of convinced.

It’s obvious that buyers pay most of the real estate industry’s monopoly rents because sellers, as a rule, factor commissions into their selling price. If you want proof, go ask your sellers if they would take less in a FSBO deal that had no commissions.

The worst part is that because commissions are part of the “purchase price”, they get rolled into the mortgage (yay, I get to pay double or more for my “no cost” services) and inflate the valuation for property taxes (hooray, I get to pay for my “no cost” services in perpetuity!).

There, I feel better.

[drboom]

I was going to refrain from adding yet more to this thread, but I can’t let this pass on Piggington of all places (emphasis added):

[quote=bearishgurl]What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice.[/quote]

Does anyone really believe there’s no cost to the buyer? I know the rather short history of “buyers’ agents”, and I’ve heard all the arguments from the RE industry. I’m the opposite of convinced.

It’s obvious that buyers pay most of the real estate industry’s monopoly rents because sellers, as a rule, factor commissions into their selling price. If you want proof, go ask your sellers if they would take less in a FSBO deal that had no commissions.

The worst part is that because commissions are part of the “purchase price”, they get rolled into the mortgage (yay, I get to pay double or more for my “no cost” services) and inflate the valuation for property taxes (hooray, I get to pay for my “no cost” services in perpetuity!).

There, I feel better.

[sdrealtor]

DR Boom
I agree with alot of your points and mine were not directed to a long time resident purchasing in the area they grew up. It was directed at folks who are newer to the area than the agents who think they can get everything they need to know online. Of course I do have a few differences.

Even if you grew up locally you wouldnt know the intracicies of construction and development issues that we run into. We learn about these through sharing of experiences with colleagues, through researching them during individual transactions we have participated in and through direct expereince. Experience matters and no one can convince me otherwise. Thats not to say that experience always helps as there are plenty of old timers that are as clueless to day as they were 30+ years ago.

Second, there are always transaction costs for everything in this world. I’m not going to get into what they should be as I dont have control over that. But the system in place is there because it works. As for going direct why dont you call up the contract manufacturer in China to get your next iPod. Let me know that goes.

[sdrealtor]

DR Boom
I agree with alot of your points and mine were not directed to a long time resident purchasing in the area they grew up. It was directed at folks who are newer to the area than the agents who think they can get everything they need to know online. Of course I do have a few differences.

Even if you grew up locally you wouldnt know the intracicies of construction and development issues that we run into. We learn about these through sharing of experiences with colleagues, through researching them during individual transactions we have participated in and through direct expereince. Experience matters and no one can convince me otherwise. Thats not to say that experience always helps as there are plenty of old timers that are as clueless to day as they were 30+ years ago.

Second, there are always transaction costs for everything in this world. I’m not going to get into what they should be as I dont have control over that. But the system in place is there because it works. As for going direct why dont you call up the contract manufacturer in China to get your next iPod. Let me know that goes.

[sdrealtor]

DR Boom
I agree with alot of your points and mine were not directed to a long time resident purchasing in the area they grew up. It was directed at folks who are newer to the area than the agents who think they can get everything they need to know online. Of course I do have a few differences.

Even if you grew up locally you wouldnt know the intracicies of construction and development issues that we run into. We learn about these through sharing of experiences with colleagues, through researching them during individual transactions we have participated in and through direct expereince. Experience matters and no one can convince me otherwise. Thats not to say that experience always helps as there are plenty of old timers that are as clueless to day as they were 30+ years ago.

Second, there are always transaction costs for everything in this world. I’m not going to get into what they should be as I dont have control over that. But the system in place is there because it works. As for going direct why dont you call up the contract manufacturer in China to get your next iPod. Let me know that goes.

[sdrealtor]

DR Boom
I agree with alot of your points and mine were not directed to a long time resident purchasing in the area they grew up. It was directed at folks who are newer to the area than the agents who think they can get everything they need to know online. Of course I do have a few differences.

Even if you grew up locally you wouldnt know the intracicies of construction and development issues that we run into. We learn about these through sharing of experiences with colleagues, through researching them during individual transactions we have participated in and through direct expereince. Experience matters and no one can convince me otherwise. Thats not to say that experience always helps as there are plenty of old timers that are as clueless to day as they were 30+ years ago.

Second, there are always transaction costs for everything in this world. I’m not going to get into what they should be as I dont have control over that. But the system in place is there because it works. As for going direct why dont you call up the contract manufacturer in China to get your next iPod. Let me know that goes.

[sdrealtor]

DR Boom
I agree with alot of your points and mine were not directed to a long time resident purchasing in the area they grew up. It was directed at folks who are newer to the area than the agents who think they can get everything they need to know online. Of course I do have a few differences.

Even if you grew up locally you wouldnt know the intracicies of construction and development issues that we run into. We learn about these through sharing of experiences with colleagues, through researching them during individual transactions we have participated in and through direct expereince. Experience matters and no one can convince me otherwise. Thats not to say that experience always helps as there are plenty of old timers that are as clueless to day as they were 30+ years ago.

Second, there are always transaction costs for everything in this world. I’m not going to get into what they should be as I dont have control over that. But the system in place is there because it works. As for going direct why dont you call up the contract manufacturer in China to get your next iPod. Let me know that goes.

[sdrealtor]

Dr B.
Just to counter your counterpoint, you proved my point. Here is what you said “my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.”

The most important part was the last sentence but let translate. “Others were cool with it and wasted their time with me”. IN this business our time is all we have and if we dont use it wisely, we dont earn a living. We dont have anyone cutting us a check each friday, anyone asking us to pay a higher share of benefit costs, fund a share of pensions or paying us for sick/vacation days. Everyday we wake up knowing it is 100% on our shoulders to make it happen. Its not an easy life and I doubt very few if any of you would trade your current work situation with what we do and who we put up with.

CAR
Agreed there are good and bad agents but I know alot of good agents. One issue is that the agent always gets blamed when you dont get the deal or something else goes wrong. Sometimes it is their fault but very often its not but the easiest thing to do is blame it on the “stupid agent”. Of course people arent perfect. Some buyers who were pushed into things during the bubble got crushed. However, some buyers who were pushed into things during the early part of the bubble (i.e. 2002 and early 2003-which I know you consider well into the bubble) still are the beneficiaries of windfall profits. So through their stupidity some of the less than impressive agents pushed their clients into things that made them pretty well off.

Lastly, when I work with clients I explain to them that we are a team in this process. If the buyer is smart, has local knowledge and anything else to add it is awesome. Things turn out even better when we put all our assets, skills and experience together.

[sdrealtor]

Dr B.
Just to counter your counterpoint, you proved my point. Here is what you said “my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.”

The most important part was the last sentence but let translate. “Others were cool with it and wasted their time with me”. IN this business our time is all we have and if we dont use it wisely, we dont earn a living. We dont have anyone cutting us a check each friday, anyone asking us to pay a higher share of benefit costs, fund a share of pensions or paying us for sick/vacation days. Everyday we wake up knowing it is 100% on our shoulders to make it happen. Its not an easy life and I doubt very few if any of you would trade your current work situation with what we do and who we put up with.

CAR
Agreed there are good and bad agents but I know alot of good agents. One issue is that the agent always gets blamed when you dont get the deal or something else goes wrong. Sometimes it is their fault but very often its not but the easiest thing to do is blame it on the “stupid agent”. Of course people arent perfect. Some buyers who were pushed into things during the bubble got crushed. However, some buyers who were pushed into things during the early part of the bubble (i.e. 2002 and early 2003-which I know you consider well into the bubble) still are the beneficiaries of windfall profits. So through their stupidity some of the less than impressive agents pushed their clients into things that made them pretty well off.

Lastly, when I work with clients I explain to them that we are a team in this process. If the buyer is smart, has local knowledge and anything else to add it is awesome. Things turn out even better when we put all our assets, skills and experience together.

[sdrealtor]

Dr B.
Just to counter your counterpoint, you proved my point. Here is what you said “my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.”

The most important part was the last sentence but let translate. “Others were cool with it and wasted their time with me”. IN this business our time is all we have and if we dont use it wisely, we dont earn a living. We dont have anyone cutting us a check each friday, anyone asking us to pay a higher share of benefit costs, fund a share of pensions or paying us for sick/vacation days. Everyday we wake up knowing it is 100% on our shoulders to make it happen. Its not an easy life and I doubt very few if any of you would trade your current work situation with what we do and who we put up with.

CAR
Agreed there are good and bad agents but I know alot of good agents. One issue is that the agent always gets blamed when you dont get the deal or something else goes wrong. Sometimes it is their fault but very often its not but the easiest thing to do is blame it on the “stupid agent”. Of course people arent perfect. Some buyers who were pushed into things during the bubble got crushed. However, some buyers who were pushed into things during the early part of the bubble (i.e. 2002 and early 2003-which I know you consider well into the bubble) still are the beneficiaries of windfall profits. So through their stupidity some of the less than impressive agents pushed their clients into things that made them pretty well off.

Lastly, when I work with clients I explain to them that we are a team in this process. If the buyer is smart, has local knowledge and anything else to add it is awesome. Things turn out even better when we put all our assets, skills and experience together.

[sdrealtor]

Dr B.
Just to counter your counterpoint, you proved my point. Here is what you said “my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.”

The most important part was the last sentence but let translate. “Others were cool with it and wasted their time with me”. IN this business our time is all we have and if we dont use it wisely, we dont earn a living. We dont have anyone cutting us a check each friday, anyone asking us to pay a higher share of benefit costs, fund a share of pensions or paying us for sick/vacation days. Everyday we wake up knowing it is 100% on our shoulders to make it happen. Its not an easy life and I doubt very few if any of you would trade your current work situation with what we do and who we put up with.

CAR
Agreed there are good and bad agents but I know alot of good agents. One issue is that the agent always gets blamed when you dont get the deal or something else goes wrong. Sometimes it is their fault but very often its not but the easiest thing to do is blame it on the “stupid agent”. Of course people arent perfect. Some buyers who were pushed into things during the bubble got crushed. However, some buyers who were pushed into things during the early part of the bubble (i.e. 2002 and early 2003-which I know you consider well into the bubble) still are the beneficiaries of windfall profits. So through their stupidity some of the less than impressive agents pushed their clients into things that made them pretty well off.

Lastly, when I work with clients I explain to them that we are a team in this process. If the buyer is smart, has local knowledge and anything else to add it is awesome. Things turn out even better when we put all our assets, skills and experience together.

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