How to Buy w/out a Realtor?

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]Pretty much every buyer that has tried to go direct to me as a listing agent has been an utter waste of my time. When I have a lisitng I know I’ll get paid on one side which is enough for me. I’d rather spend my time trying to help buyers I know, like and respect. I’ve yet to meet one of those who tried to go direct. They all seem to have hidden agendasa that i dont have time for. They seem to like to think they are smarter than agents and figure than can outsmart us by going direct. Of course, thats not true and I know they are pulling the same pile of *(&(*& with a dozen other agents that they are calling also. I say good luck to them. Your quote that “I would expect that person to be more knowledgeable than an average buyer” is exactly the attitude I see from them. The smartest buyers have the best representation not NO representation.
[/quote]

Let me offer a counterpoint: my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.

Long story short, we had a short sale that fell apart in the approval process (stupid BofA: the house is still vacant and on their books 18 months later). The seller’s agent on that deal asked us if we were interested in having him represent us on a 50% commission split; he knew we had the research squared away and that we wouldn’t waste his time. He’d proven himself to be a true professional throughout the deal, so we were happy to engage him. I’ve told the story elsewhere, but the short of it is that he showed us exactly one house and wrote exactly one offer (OK, and one counter) for us. The sale closed three months later (short sale). Easy money.

I understand you have to play the odds, but realize that some buyers might not have an agent precisely because they are serious and feel that too many in the RE biz do not act in their best interests.

Or maybe we’re just unique, like delicate snowflakes. 🙂

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]I meet real natives of this area who dont know a fraction of what I have learned from my colleagues and friends in the business.[/quote]

You seem to be smarter than the average bear, so that’s not too surprising–especially if it’s an unfamiliar part of town for the “native”, they spend their lives in front of the TV, or they are young.

But the average RE bear, especially one who hasn’t been here long, was worse than worthless to me when it came to the finer points of research. The usual stuff RE folks help with–crime maps, demographics, school district info, etc.–I can get online if necessary … but it’s not necessary because I know my ‘hood and my wife teaches in the district. They will also give me comps, but I can get those online–and not just the ones they pick out. The comps and listings included houses we had actually been in over the years, by the way, so we weren’t just looking at numbers.

I say “worse than worthless” because all I got were guesses or worse when it came to important neighborhood specifics: is so-and-so a busy street, is it quiet/noisy around here, are subsidence issues common around here, etc. I asked just to get a feel for the agents’ honesty, actually–I knew the answers already. Anyone who answered “I don’t know” got a brownie point; correct answers got a gold star. I didn’t award many stars.

But it really isn’t fair to the agents–how can you know more than my wife or I do unless you also had a paper route and did door-to-door band fundraisers in the neighborhoods 20-30 years ago … and have living relatives who did the same things in the same neighborhoods 40-70 years ago?

To ask your own question–can we be the only ones?

Note that I’m not discounting the other things a good buyer’s agent brings to the table. The way the system is set up, an inexperienced buyer on his/her own could get screwed ten different ways and never know it.

For the OP: if you use an agent, do your homework on pricing because your agent will NOT make direct suggestions about how much to offer or (often) how to negotiate the price–there are nasty liability issues for them, which is unfortunate because it’s an area where agents have truly unique experience.

Note that an agent will have a direct conflict of interest in this regard since his commission is helped by a higher selling price (not to mention that higher offers are more likely to be accepted). My agent admitted after the deal closed that he didn’t think my offer strategy would work when he wrote our offer and counter-offer, but it turned out he was mistaken since we paid 4% less than the highest offer and still got the house.

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]I meet real natives of this area who dont know a fraction of what I have learned from my colleagues and friends in the business.[/quote]

You seem to be smarter than the average bear, so that’s not too surprising–especially if it’s an unfamiliar part of town for the “native”, they spend their lives in front of the TV, or they are young.

But the average RE bear, especially one who hasn’t been here long, was worse than worthless to me when it came to the finer points of research. The usual stuff RE folks help with–crime maps, demographics, school district info, etc.–I can get online if necessary … but it’s not necessary because I know my ‘hood and my wife teaches in the district. They will also give me comps, but I can get those online–and not just the ones they pick out. The comps and listings included houses we had actually been in over the years, by the way, so we weren’t just looking at numbers.

I say “worse than worthless” because all I got were guesses or worse when it came to important neighborhood specifics: is so-and-so a busy street, is it quiet/noisy around here, are subsidence issues common around here, etc. I asked just to get a feel for the agents’ honesty, actually–I knew the answers already. Anyone who answered “I don’t know” got a brownie point; correct answers got a gold star. I didn’t award many stars.

But it really isn’t fair to the agents–how can you know more than my wife or I do unless you also had a paper route and did door-to-door band fundraisers in the neighborhoods 20-30 years ago … and have living relatives who did the same things in the same neighborhoods 40-70 years ago?

To ask your own question–can we be the only ones?

Note that I’m not discounting the other things a good buyer’s agent brings to the table. The way the system is set up, an inexperienced buyer on his/her own could get screwed ten different ways and never know it.

For the OP: if you use an agent, do your homework on pricing because your agent will NOT make direct suggestions about how much to offer or (often) how to negotiate the price–there are nasty liability issues for them, which is unfortunate because it’s an area where agents have truly unique experience.

Note that an agent will have a direct conflict of interest in this regard since his commission is helped by a higher selling price (not to mention that higher offers are more likely to be accepted). My agent admitted after the deal closed that he didn’t think my offer strategy would work when he wrote our offer and counter-offer, but it turned out he was mistaken since we paid 4% less than the highest offer and still got the house.

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]I meet real natives of this area who dont know a fraction of what I have learned from my colleagues and friends in the business.[/quote]

You seem to be smarter than the average bear, so that’s not too surprising–especially if it’s an unfamiliar part of town for the “native”, they spend their lives in front of the TV, or they are young.

But the average RE bear, especially one who hasn’t been here long, was worse than worthless to me when it came to the finer points of research. The usual stuff RE folks help with–crime maps, demographics, school district info, etc.–I can get online if necessary … but it’s not necessary because I know my ‘hood and my wife teaches in the district. They will also give me comps, but I can get those online–and not just the ones they pick out. The comps and listings included houses we had actually been in over the years, by the way, so we weren’t just looking at numbers.

I say “worse than worthless” because all I got were guesses or worse when it came to important neighborhood specifics: is so-and-so a busy street, is it quiet/noisy around here, are subsidence issues common around here, etc. I asked just to get a feel for the agents’ honesty, actually–I knew the answers already. Anyone who answered “I don’t know” got a brownie point; correct answers got a gold star. I didn’t award many stars.

But it really isn’t fair to the agents–how can you know more than my wife or I do unless you also had a paper route and did door-to-door band fundraisers in the neighborhoods 20-30 years ago … and have living relatives who did the same things in the same neighborhoods 40-70 years ago?

To ask your own question–can we be the only ones?

Note that I’m not discounting the other things a good buyer’s agent brings to the table. The way the system is set up, an inexperienced buyer on his/her own could get screwed ten different ways and never know it.

For the OP: if you use an agent, do your homework on pricing because your agent will NOT make direct suggestions about how much to offer or (often) how to negotiate the price–there are nasty liability issues for them, which is unfortunate because it’s an area where agents have truly unique experience.

Note that an agent will have a direct conflict of interest in this regard since his commission is helped by a higher selling price (not to mention that higher offers are more likely to be accepted). My agent admitted after the deal closed that he didn’t think my offer strategy would work when he wrote our offer and counter-offer, but it turned out he was mistaken since we paid 4% less than the highest offer and still got the house.

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]I meet real natives of this area who dont know a fraction of what I have learned from my colleagues and friends in the business.[/quote]

You seem to be smarter than the average bear, so that’s not too surprising–especially if it’s an unfamiliar part of town for the “native”, they spend their lives in front of the TV, or they are young.

But the average RE bear, especially one who hasn’t been here long, was worse than worthless to me when it came to the finer points of research. The usual stuff RE folks help with–crime maps, demographics, school district info, etc.–I can get online if necessary … but it’s not necessary because I know my ‘hood and my wife teaches in the district. They will also give me comps, but I can get those online–and not just the ones they pick out. The comps and listings included houses we had actually been in over the years, by the way, so we weren’t just looking at numbers.

I say “worse than worthless” because all I got were guesses or worse when it came to important neighborhood specifics: is so-and-so a busy street, is it quiet/noisy around here, are subsidence issues common around here, etc. I asked just to get a feel for the agents’ honesty, actually–I knew the answers already. Anyone who answered “I don’t know” got a brownie point; correct answers got a gold star. I didn’t award many stars.

But it really isn’t fair to the agents–how can you know more than my wife or I do unless you also had a paper route and did door-to-door band fundraisers in the neighborhoods 20-30 years ago … and have living relatives who did the same things in the same neighborhoods 40-70 years ago?

To ask your own question–can we be the only ones?

Note that I’m not discounting the other things a good buyer’s agent brings to the table. The way the system is set up, an inexperienced buyer on his/her own could get screwed ten different ways and never know it.

For the OP: if you use an agent, do your homework on pricing because your agent will NOT make direct suggestions about how much to offer or (often) how to negotiate the price–there are nasty liability issues for them, which is unfortunate because it’s an area where agents have truly unique experience.

Note that an agent will have a direct conflict of interest in this regard since his commission is helped by a higher selling price (not to mention that higher offers are more likely to be accepted). My agent admitted after the deal closed that he didn’t think my offer strategy would work when he wrote our offer and counter-offer, but it turned out he was mistaken since we paid 4% less than the highest offer and still got the house.

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]I meet real natives of this area who dont know a fraction of what I have learned from my colleagues and friends in the business.[/quote]

You seem to be smarter than the average bear, so that’s not too surprising–especially if it’s an unfamiliar part of town for the “native”, they spend their lives in front of the TV, or they are young.

But the average RE bear, especially one who hasn’t been here long, was worse than worthless to me when it came to the finer points of research. The usual stuff RE folks help with–crime maps, demographics, school district info, etc.–I can get online if necessary … but it’s not necessary because I know my ‘hood and my wife teaches in the district. They will also give me comps, but I can get those online–and not just the ones they pick out. The comps and listings included houses we had actually been in over the years, by the way, so we weren’t just looking at numbers.

I say “worse than worthless” because all I got were guesses or worse when it came to important neighborhood specifics: is so-and-so a busy street, is it quiet/noisy around here, are subsidence issues common around here, etc. I asked just to get a feel for the agents’ honesty, actually–I knew the answers already. Anyone who answered “I don’t know” got a brownie point; correct answers got a gold star. I didn’t award many stars.

But it really isn’t fair to the agents–how can you know more than my wife or I do unless you also had a paper route and did door-to-door band fundraisers in the neighborhoods 20-30 years ago … and have living relatives who did the same things in the same neighborhoods 40-70 years ago?

To ask your own question–can we be the only ones?

Note that I’m not discounting the other things a good buyer’s agent brings to the table. The way the system is set up, an inexperienced buyer on his/her own could get screwed ten different ways and never know it.

For the OP: if you use an agent, do your homework on pricing because your agent will NOT make direct suggestions about how much to offer or (often) how to negotiate the price–there are nasty liability issues for them, which is unfortunate because it’s an area where agents have truly unique experience.

Note that an agent will have a direct conflict of interest in this regard since his commission is helped by a higher selling price (not to mention that higher offers are more likely to be accepted). My agent admitted after the deal closed that he didn’t think my offer strategy would work when he wrote our offer and counter-offer, but it turned out he was mistaken since we paid 4% less than the highest offer and still got the house.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]Fletcher Hills, 92020. I grew up in the house my grandparents bought in 1946 or 1947. It’s about a mile from the house my wife and I bought last year. We’re both true second generation natives, which is odd enough to draw comment, so this subject has come up before.[/quote]

Ah, Fletcher Hills, that’s actually one of the East County areas that came to mind when I thought of “stability.”

[quote=drboom]Your opinion isn’t supported by either my or my wife’s experience (she’s a native too, and she’s a teacher so she sees all the transplants when they arrive with their kids) or by looking at a chart of the county’s population over time: it has tripled since 1960 and doubled since 1980. All of that increase is “immigration”.[/quote]

drboom, I agree that there has been a lot of immigration. I don’t think a very high percentage of it is domestic. I think there has been a lot of immigration into SD County from MX, and to a lesser degree, Asia. In South County, however, these Mexican immigrants moved here to join relatives who were already here. What school or area does your wife work in? Certain parts of East County as well as San Diego and North County are more transient. There are pockets of East County that are more inexpensive to live in than the rest of the county and thus, more transient (more renting Navy families, more apartments, etc). Schools which serve high concentrations of Navy families (Naval housing complexes situated nearby) also have a more transient student population.

[quote=drboom]I’ll see your transplant opinion and raise you three native opinions and some hand-waving at census numbers. 🙂

I agree that an agent with twenty years in the same area–a rare bird indeed–would know a thing or two. . .[/quote]

These agents are NOT THAT RARE, drboom. Along with agents still working who have been licensed 25+ years, there are many more agents licensed 15-20 years who are natives to the areas they are working in.

[quote=drboom]I’ll stand by what I said even if you know of some exceptions. The reason I brought it up at all is because you were so emphatic that “civvies” absolutely require professional research services. It ain’t so.[/quote]

I’m sorry in that I don’t know what you mean by “civvies.” Not every property needs to be “researched.” Not every buyer even cares that a particular condo complex is sitting on a former radon field. What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice. That agent typically, by hook or crook, knows a lot of things about their market area that are not widely disemminated information that did, is, or could affect the value, uses or future marketability of a property . . . and may even be esoteric in nature – only an interested party (read: potential buyer) would really be interested.

As you stated in your post, agents have varied backgrounds. Many are retired from other careers. The things they learned in their previous careers could serve them very well in real estate. Agents may have been privvy to litigation details while an HOA case was active or related local case law, for instance. Maybe an agent and their classmates stood over a canyon for two straight weeks in 1986 while walking home from school watching Shell Oil cover over a massive pipeline with infill so Fieldstone could later raze over the top and build houses. You can’t take a person’s intellectual property away from them. You can’t purchase this information or learn it in school. And most of the neighbors don’t know it because they moved in later. You have to have lived it.

drboom, you are very fortunate to have family and extended family living in close proximity and have strong ties to your community.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]Fletcher Hills, 92020. I grew up in the house my grandparents bought in 1946 or 1947. It’s about a mile from the house my wife and I bought last year. We’re both true second generation natives, which is odd enough to draw comment, so this subject has come up before.[/quote]

Ah, Fletcher Hills, that’s actually one of the East County areas that came to mind when I thought of “stability.”

[quote=drboom]Your opinion isn’t supported by either my or my wife’s experience (she’s a native too, and she’s a teacher so she sees all the transplants when they arrive with their kids) or by looking at a chart of the county’s population over time: it has tripled since 1960 and doubled since 1980. All of that increase is “immigration”.[/quote]

drboom, I agree that there has been a lot of immigration. I don’t think a very high percentage of it is domestic. I think there has been a lot of immigration into SD County from MX, and to a lesser degree, Asia. In South County, however, these Mexican immigrants moved here to join relatives who were already here. What school or area does your wife work in? Certain parts of East County as well as San Diego and North County are more transient. There are pockets of East County that are more inexpensive to live in than the rest of the county and thus, more transient (more renting Navy families, more apartments, etc). Schools which serve high concentrations of Navy families (Naval housing complexes situated nearby) also have a more transient student population.

[quote=drboom]I’ll see your transplant opinion and raise you three native opinions and some hand-waving at census numbers. 🙂

I agree that an agent with twenty years in the same area–a rare bird indeed–would know a thing or two. . .[/quote]

These agents are NOT THAT RARE, drboom. Along with agents still working who have been licensed 25+ years, there are many more agents licensed 15-20 years who are natives to the areas they are working in.

[quote=drboom]I’ll stand by what I said even if you know of some exceptions. The reason I brought it up at all is because you were so emphatic that “civvies” absolutely require professional research services. It ain’t so.[/quote]

I’m sorry in that I don’t know what you mean by “civvies.” Not every property needs to be “researched.” Not every buyer even cares that a particular condo complex is sitting on a former radon field. What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice. That agent typically, by hook or crook, knows a lot of things about their market area that are not widely disemminated information that did, is, or could affect the value, uses or future marketability of a property . . . and may even be esoteric in nature – only an interested party (read: potential buyer) would really be interested.

As you stated in your post, agents have varied backgrounds. Many are retired from other careers. The things they learned in their previous careers could serve them very well in real estate. Agents may have been privvy to litigation details while an HOA case was active or related local case law, for instance. Maybe an agent and their classmates stood over a canyon for two straight weeks in 1986 while walking home from school watching Shell Oil cover over a massive pipeline with infill so Fieldstone could later raze over the top and build houses. You can’t take a person’s intellectual property away from them. You can’t purchase this information or learn it in school. And most of the neighbors don’t know it because they moved in later. You have to have lived it.

drboom, you are very fortunate to have family and extended family living in close proximity and have strong ties to your community.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]Fletcher Hills, 92020. I grew up in the house my grandparents bought in 1946 or 1947. It’s about a mile from the house my wife and I bought last year. We’re both true second generation natives, which is odd enough to draw comment, so this subject has come up before.[/quote]

Ah, Fletcher Hills, that’s actually one of the East County areas that came to mind when I thought of “stability.”

[quote=drboom]Your opinion isn’t supported by either my or my wife’s experience (she’s a native too, and she’s a teacher so she sees all the transplants when they arrive with their kids) or by looking at a chart of the county’s population over time: it has tripled since 1960 and doubled since 1980. All of that increase is “immigration”.[/quote]

drboom, I agree that there has been a lot of immigration. I don’t think a very high percentage of it is domestic. I think there has been a lot of immigration into SD County from MX, and to a lesser degree, Asia. In South County, however, these Mexican immigrants moved here to join relatives who were already here. What school or area does your wife work in? Certain parts of East County as well as San Diego and North County are more transient. There are pockets of East County that are more inexpensive to live in than the rest of the county and thus, more transient (more renting Navy families, more apartments, etc). Schools which serve high concentrations of Navy families (Naval housing complexes situated nearby) also have a more transient student population.

[quote=drboom]I’ll see your transplant opinion and raise you three native opinions and some hand-waving at census numbers. 🙂

I agree that an agent with twenty years in the same area–a rare bird indeed–would know a thing or two. . .[/quote]

These agents are NOT THAT RARE, drboom. Along with agents still working who have been licensed 25+ years, there are many more agents licensed 15-20 years who are natives to the areas they are working in.

[quote=drboom]I’ll stand by what I said even if you know of some exceptions. The reason I brought it up at all is because you were so emphatic that “civvies” absolutely require professional research services. It ain’t so.[/quote]

I’m sorry in that I don’t know what you mean by “civvies.” Not every property needs to be “researched.” Not every buyer even cares that a particular condo complex is sitting on a former radon field. What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice. That agent typically, by hook or crook, knows a lot of things about their market area that are not widely disemminated information that did, is, or could affect the value, uses or future marketability of a property . . . and may even be esoteric in nature – only an interested party (read: potential buyer) would really be interested.

As you stated in your post, agents have varied backgrounds. Many are retired from other careers. The things they learned in their previous careers could serve them very well in real estate. Agents may have been privvy to litigation details while an HOA case was active or related local case law, for instance. Maybe an agent and their classmates stood over a canyon for two straight weeks in 1986 while walking home from school watching Shell Oil cover over a massive pipeline with infill so Fieldstone could later raze over the top and build houses. You can’t take a person’s intellectual property away from them. You can’t purchase this information or learn it in school. And most of the neighbors don’t know it because they moved in later. You have to have lived it.

drboom, you are very fortunate to have family and extended family living in close proximity and have strong ties to your community.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]Fletcher Hills, 92020. I grew up in the house my grandparents bought in 1946 or 1947. It’s about a mile from the house my wife and I bought last year. We’re both true second generation natives, which is odd enough to draw comment, so this subject has come up before.[/quote]

Ah, Fletcher Hills, that’s actually one of the East County areas that came to mind when I thought of “stability.”

[quote=drboom]Your opinion isn’t supported by either my or my wife’s experience (she’s a native too, and she’s a teacher so she sees all the transplants when they arrive with their kids) or by looking at a chart of the county’s population over time: it has tripled since 1960 and doubled since 1980. All of that increase is “immigration”.[/quote]

drboom, I agree that there has been a lot of immigration. I don’t think a very high percentage of it is domestic. I think there has been a lot of immigration into SD County from MX, and to a lesser degree, Asia. In South County, however, these Mexican immigrants moved here to join relatives who were already here. What school or area does your wife work in? Certain parts of East County as well as San Diego and North County are more transient. There are pockets of East County that are more inexpensive to live in than the rest of the county and thus, more transient (more renting Navy families, more apartments, etc). Schools which serve high concentrations of Navy families (Naval housing complexes situated nearby) also have a more transient student population.

[quote=drboom]I’ll see your transplant opinion and raise you three native opinions and some hand-waving at census numbers. 🙂

I agree that an agent with twenty years in the same area–a rare bird indeed–would know a thing or two. . .[/quote]

These agents are NOT THAT RARE, drboom. Along with agents still working who have been licensed 25+ years, there are many more agents licensed 15-20 years who are natives to the areas they are working in.

[quote=drboom]I’ll stand by what I said even if you know of some exceptions. The reason I brought it up at all is because you were so emphatic that “civvies” absolutely require professional research services. It ain’t so.[/quote]

I’m sorry in that I don’t know what you mean by “civvies.” Not every property needs to be “researched.” Not every buyer even cares that a particular condo complex is sitting on a former radon field. What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice. That agent typically, by hook or crook, knows a lot of things about their market area that are not widely disemminated information that did, is, or could affect the value, uses or future marketability of a property . . . and may even be esoteric in nature – only an interested party (read: potential buyer) would really be interested.

As you stated in your post, agents have varied backgrounds. Many are retired from other careers. The things they learned in their previous careers could serve them very well in real estate. Agents may have been privvy to litigation details while an HOA case was active or related local case law, for instance. Maybe an agent and their classmates stood over a canyon for two straight weeks in 1986 while walking home from school watching Shell Oil cover over a massive pipeline with infill so Fieldstone could later raze over the top and build houses. You can’t take a person’s intellectual property away from them. You can’t purchase this information or learn it in school. And most of the neighbors don’t know it because they moved in later. You have to have lived it.

drboom, you are very fortunate to have family and extended family living in close proximity and have strong ties to your community.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=drboom]Fletcher Hills, 92020. I grew up in the house my grandparents bought in 1946 or 1947. It’s about a mile from the house my wife and I bought last year. We’re both true second generation natives, which is odd enough to draw comment, so this subject has come up before.[/quote]

Ah, Fletcher Hills, that’s actually one of the East County areas that came to mind when I thought of “stability.”

[quote=drboom]Your opinion isn’t supported by either my or my wife’s experience (she’s a native too, and she’s a teacher so she sees all the transplants when they arrive with their kids) or by looking at a chart of the county’s population over time: it has tripled since 1960 and doubled since 1980. All of that increase is “immigration”.[/quote]

drboom, I agree that there has been a lot of immigration. I don’t think a very high percentage of it is domestic. I think there has been a lot of immigration into SD County from MX, and to a lesser degree, Asia. In South County, however, these Mexican immigrants moved here to join relatives who were already here. What school or area does your wife work in? Certain parts of East County as well as San Diego and North County are more transient. There are pockets of East County that are more inexpensive to live in than the rest of the county and thus, more transient (more renting Navy families, more apartments, etc). Schools which serve high concentrations of Navy families (Naval housing complexes situated nearby) also have a more transient student population.

[quote=drboom]I’ll see your transplant opinion and raise you three native opinions and some hand-waving at census numbers. 🙂

I agree that an agent with twenty years in the same area–a rare bird indeed–would know a thing or two. . .[/quote]

These agents are NOT THAT RARE, drboom. Along with agents still working who have been licensed 25+ years, there are many more agents licensed 15-20 years who are natives to the areas they are working in.

[quote=drboom]I’ll stand by what I said even if you know of some exceptions. The reason I brought it up at all is because you were so emphatic that “civvies” absolutely require professional research services. It ain’t so.[/quote]

I’m sorry in that I don’t know what you mean by “civvies.” Not every property needs to be “researched.” Not every buyer even cares that a particular condo complex is sitting on a former radon field. What I’m saying here is that a serious buyer, at no cost to them, can get expert guidance from a professional RE agent specializing in their area of choice. That agent typically, by hook or crook, knows a lot of things about their market area that are not widely disemminated information that did, is, or could affect the value, uses or future marketability of a property . . . and may even be esoteric in nature – only an interested party (read: potential buyer) would really be interested.

As you stated in your post, agents have varied backgrounds. Many are retired from other careers. The things they learned in their previous careers could serve them very well in real estate. Agents may have been privvy to litigation details while an HOA case was active or related local case law, for instance. Maybe an agent and their classmates stood over a canyon for two straight weeks in 1986 while walking home from school watching Shell Oil cover over a massive pipeline with infill so Fieldstone could later raze over the top and build houses. You can’t take a person’s intellectual property away from them. You can’t purchase this information or learn it in school. And most of the neighbors don’t know it because they moved in later. You have to have lived it.

drboom, you are very fortunate to have family and extended family living in close proximity and have strong ties to your community.

[CA renter]

[quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]Pretty much every buyer that has tried to go direct to me as a listing agent has been an utter waste of my time. When I have a lisitng I know I’ll get paid on one side which is enough for me. I’d rather spend my time trying to help buyers I know, like and respect. I’ve yet to meet one of those who tried to go direct. They all seem to have hidden agendasa that i dont have time for. They seem to like to think they are smarter than agents and figure than can outsmart us by going direct. Of course, thats not true and I know they are pulling the same pile of *(&(*& with a dozen other agents that they are calling also. I say good luck to them. Your quote that “I would expect that person to be more knowledgeable than an average buyer” is exactly the attitude I see from them. The smartest buyers have the best representation not NO representation.
[/quote]

Let me offer a counterpoint: my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.

Long story short, we had a short sale that fell apart in the approval process (stupid BofA: the house is still vacant and on their books 18 months later). The seller’s agent on that deal asked us if we were interested in having him represent us on a 50% commission split; he knew we had the research squared away and that we wouldn’t waste his time. He’d proven himself to be a true professional throughout the deal, so we were happy to engage him. I’ve told the story elsewhere, but the short of it is that he showed us exactly one house and wrote exactly one offer (OK, and one counter) for us. The sale closed three months later (short sale). Easy money.

I understand you have to play the odds, but realize that some buyers might not have an agent precisely because they are serious and feel that too many in the RE biz do not act in their best interests.

Or maybe we’re just unique, like delicate snowflakes. :-)[/quote]

I’m with drboom. While some **good** longtime agents are worth their commissions, so many of them are transplants from somewhere else or are new to the business and know far less than an educated buyer. Many agents are simply stupid, and don’t bring anything at all to the table. Not all buyers are idiots; some are far more familiar with the territory, demographic trends, and pricing history than many agents.

We’ve seen fairly large mistakes made on contracts, and have known agents who had absolutely no local knowledge about certain neighborhoods or tracts. We’ve also had agents who lost deals for us, so I’m not at all impressed with agents, as a rule. Need we even bring up what most agents were telling their buyers during the 2003-2007 era? (Bid higher, higher, higher!)

The only reason we’re not FBs is because I did my own research. There wasn’t a single agent out there who told us not to buy during the bubble (I know some here did so, but trust me, there were very few agents telling people about the bubble).

[CA renter]

[quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]Pretty much every buyer that has tried to go direct to me as a listing agent has been an utter waste of my time. When I have a lisitng I know I’ll get paid on one side which is enough for me. I’d rather spend my time trying to help buyers I know, like and respect. I’ve yet to meet one of those who tried to go direct. They all seem to have hidden agendasa that i dont have time for. They seem to like to think they are smarter than agents and figure than can outsmart us by going direct. Of course, thats not true and I know they are pulling the same pile of *(&(*& with a dozen other agents that they are calling also. I say good luck to them. Your quote that “I would expect that person to be more knowledgeable than an average buyer” is exactly the attitude I see from them. The smartest buyers have the best representation not NO representation.
[/quote]

Let me offer a counterpoint: my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.

Long story short, we had a short sale that fell apart in the approval process (stupid BofA: the house is still vacant and on their books 18 months later). The seller’s agent on that deal asked us if we were interested in having him represent us on a 50% commission split; he knew we had the research squared away and that we wouldn’t waste his time. He’d proven himself to be a true professional throughout the deal, so we were happy to engage him. I’ve told the story elsewhere, but the short of it is that he showed us exactly one house and wrote exactly one offer (OK, and one counter) for us. The sale closed three months later (short sale). Easy money.

I understand you have to play the odds, but realize that some buyers might not have an agent precisely because they are serious and feel that too many in the RE biz do not act in their best interests.

Or maybe we’re just unique, like delicate snowflakes. :-)[/quote]

I’m with drboom. While some **good** longtime agents are worth their commissions, so many of them are transplants from somewhere else or are new to the business and know far less than an educated buyer. Many agents are simply stupid, and don’t bring anything at all to the table. Not all buyers are idiots; some are far more familiar with the territory, demographic trends, and pricing history than many agents.

We’ve seen fairly large mistakes made on contracts, and have known agents who had absolutely no local knowledge about certain neighborhoods or tracts. We’ve also had agents who lost deals for us, so I’m not at all impressed with agents, as a rule. Need we even bring up what most agents were telling their buyers during the 2003-2007 era? (Bid higher, higher, higher!)

The only reason we’re not FBs is because I did my own research. There wasn’t a single agent out there who told us not to buy during the bubble (I know some here did so, but trust me, there were very few agents telling people about the bubble).

[CA renter]

[quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]Pretty much every buyer that has tried to go direct to me as a listing agent has been an utter waste of my time. When I have a lisitng I know I’ll get paid on one side which is enough for me. I’d rather spend my time trying to help buyers I know, like and respect. I’ve yet to meet one of those who tried to go direct. They all seem to have hidden agendasa that i dont have time for. They seem to like to think they are smarter than agents and figure than can outsmart us by going direct. Of course, thats not true and I know they are pulling the same pile of *(&(*& with a dozen other agents that they are calling also. I say good luck to them. Your quote that “I would expect that person to be more knowledgeable than an average buyer” is exactly the attitude I see from them. The smartest buyers have the best representation not NO representation.
[/quote]

Let me offer a counterpoint: my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.

Long story short, we had a short sale that fell apart in the approval process (stupid BofA: the house is still vacant and on their books 18 months later). The seller’s agent on that deal asked us if we were interested in having him represent us on a 50% commission split; he knew we had the research squared away and that we wouldn’t waste his time. He’d proven himself to be a true professional throughout the deal, so we were happy to engage him. I’ve told the story elsewhere, but the short of it is that he showed us exactly one house and wrote exactly one offer (OK, and one counter) for us. The sale closed three months later (short sale). Easy money.

I understand you have to play the odds, but realize that some buyers might not have an agent precisely because they are serious and feel that too many in the RE biz do not act in their best interests.

Or maybe we’re just unique, like delicate snowflakes. :-)[/quote]

I’m with drboom. While some **good** longtime agents are worth their commissions, so many of them are transplants from somewhere else or are new to the business and know far less than an educated buyer. Many agents are simply stupid, and don’t bring anything at all to the table. Not all buyers are idiots; some are far more familiar with the territory, demographic trends, and pricing history than many agents.

We’ve seen fairly large mistakes made on contracts, and have known agents who had absolutely no local knowledge about certain neighborhoods or tracts. We’ve also had agents who lost deals for us, so I’m not at all impressed with agents, as a rule. Need we even bring up what most agents were telling their buyers during the 2003-2007 era? (Bid higher, higher, higher!)

The only reason we’re not FBs is because I did my own research. There wasn’t a single agent out there who told us not to buy during the bubble (I know some here did so, but trust me, there were very few agents telling people about the bubble).

[CA renter]

[quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]Pretty much every buyer that has tried to go direct to me as a listing agent has been an utter waste of my time. When I have a lisitng I know I’ll get paid on one side which is enough for me. I’d rather spend my time trying to help buyers I know, like and respect. I’ve yet to meet one of those who tried to go direct. They all seem to have hidden agendasa that i dont have time for. They seem to like to think they are smarter than agents and figure than can outsmart us by going direct. Of course, thats not true and I know they are pulling the same pile of *(&(*& with a dozen other agents that they are calling also. I say good luck to them. Your quote that “I would expect that person to be more knowledgeable than an average buyer” is exactly the attitude I see from them. The smartest buyers have the best representation not NO representation.
[/quote]

Let me offer a counterpoint: my wife and I had a bunch of buyer’s agents blow smoke up our posteriors, including a member of my wife’s family who is a 20 year RE veteran. We couldn’t trust any of them, so I represented us through our first six months of serious shopping. There were some agents who didn’t want to have anything to do with me. Their loss. Others were cool with it and worked with me.

Long story short, we had a short sale that fell apart in the approval process (stupid BofA: the house is still vacant and on their books 18 months later). The seller’s agent on that deal asked us if we were interested in having him represent us on a 50% commission split; he knew we had the research squared away and that we wouldn’t waste his time. He’d proven himself to be a true professional throughout the deal, so we were happy to engage him. I’ve told the story elsewhere, but the short of it is that he showed us exactly one house and wrote exactly one offer (OK, and one counter) for us. The sale closed three months later (short sale). Easy money.

I understand you have to play the odds, but realize that some buyers might not have an agent precisely because they are serious and feel that too many in the RE biz do not act in their best interests.

Or maybe we’re just unique, like delicate snowflakes. :-)[/quote]

I’m with drboom. While some **good** longtime agents are worth their commissions, so many of them are transplants from somewhere else or are new to the business and know far less than an educated buyer. Many agents are simply stupid, and don’t bring anything at all to the table. Not all buyers are idiots; some are far more familiar with the territory, demographic trends, and pricing history than many agents.

We’ve seen fairly large mistakes made on contracts, and have known agents who had absolutely no local knowledge about certain neighborhoods or tracts. We’ve also had agents who lost deals for us, so I’m not at all impressed with agents, as a rule. Need we even bring up what most agents were telling their buyers during the 2003-2007 era? (Bid higher, higher, higher!)

The only reason we’re not FBs is because I did my own research. There wasn’t a single agent out there who told us not to buy during the bubble (I know some here did so, but trust me, there were very few agents telling people about the bubble).

[Author]

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