Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › How do I go about investigating this?
- This topic has 360 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 8 months ago by
bearishgurl.
-
AuthorPosts
-
October 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM #463722October 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM #463068
Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=massivedamagetome]You have been most helpful
How do you know for sure it was Ponzi scheme?
and
I did call a lawyer today as you suggested, they want $1,000’s upfront- I can not help but think am I throwing good money after bad. Also how hard is it to find out if Bartko has any money, even if I did hire a lawyer and won, does he have any money? I suppose there are those asset verification guys but isn’t that expensive and seems safe to assume if he did have any money he transferred it somewhere else, or someone else name?[/quote]Massive: Then do nothing, accept your loss(es) and move on. Simple as that.
If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. Find where his business is domiciled and contact the local police department or Sheriff’s Office and speak with a detective.
If they tell you its a civil matter (and they well might), then you can either hire an attorney (and, yes, it will cost you additional money) or do the research on your own.
Your choices aren’t good ones, unfortunately. You can either accept your $100K+ loss and chalk it up a painful life lesson or prepare to spend more money chasing your $100K and find out that Bartko has spent that on another investor (as part of the Ponzi scheme), has blown the money, or hidden it somewhere you can’t get to it.
I got burned in a bad investment deal, but was willing to spend the money to run the person to ground. It was expensive, but I got my attorney’s fees back as part of the judgment and I had to collect the judgment on my own (which is another bitch: Even if you win and are awarded a judgment, its up to you to collect). Good news on that judgment: It paid 10% a year interest on the award. It took me four and a half years to finally enforce it, but when I did, I got his car and effectively closed all of his bank accounts through the writ process.
I don’t know how much this money matters to you, but you had better be prepared to get down and dirty with this guy or walk away and call it a day.
October 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM #463260Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=massivedamagetome]You have been most helpful
How do you know for sure it was Ponzi scheme?
and
I did call a lawyer today as you suggested, they want $1,000’s upfront- I can not help but think am I throwing good money after bad. Also how hard is it to find out if Bartko has any money, even if I did hire a lawyer and won, does he have any money? I suppose there are those asset verification guys but isn’t that expensive and seems safe to assume if he did have any money he transferred it somewhere else, or someone else name?[/quote]Massive: Then do nothing, accept your loss(es) and move on. Simple as that.
If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. Find where his business is domiciled and contact the local police department or Sheriff’s Office and speak with a detective.
If they tell you its a civil matter (and they well might), then you can either hire an attorney (and, yes, it will cost you additional money) or do the research on your own.
Your choices aren’t good ones, unfortunately. You can either accept your $100K+ loss and chalk it up a painful life lesson or prepare to spend more money chasing your $100K and find out that Bartko has spent that on another investor (as part of the Ponzi scheme), has blown the money, or hidden it somewhere you can’t get to it.
I got burned in a bad investment deal, but was willing to spend the money to run the person to ground. It was expensive, but I got my attorney’s fees back as part of the judgment and I had to collect the judgment on my own (which is another bitch: Even if you win and are awarded a judgment, its up to you to collect). Good news on that judgment: It paid 10% a year interest on the award. It took me four and a half years to finally enforce it, but when I did, I got his car and effectively closed all of his bank accounts through the writ process.
I don’t know how much this money matters to you, but you had better be prepared to get down and dirty with this guy or walk away and call it a day.
October 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM #463605Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=massivedamagetome]You have been most helpful
How do you know for sure it was Ponzi scheme?
and
I did call a lawyer today as you suggested, they want $1,000’s upfront- I can not help but think am I throwing good money after bad. Also how hard is it to find out if Bartko has any money, even if I did hire a lawyer and won, does he have any money? I suppose there are those asset verification guys but isn’t that expensive and seems safe to assume if he did have any money he transferred it somewhere else, or someone else name?[/quote]Massive: Then do nothing, accept your loss(es) and move on. Simple as that.
If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. Find where his business is domiciled and contact the local police department or Sheriff’s Office and speak with a detective.
If they tell you its a civil matter (and they well might), then you can either hire an attorney (and, yes, it will cost you additional money) or do the research on your own.
Your choices aren’t good ones, unfortunately. You can either accept your $100K+ loss and chalk it up a painful life lesson or prepare to spend more money chasing your $100K and find out that Bartko has spent that on another investor (as part of the Ponzi scheme), has blown the money, or hidden it somewhere you can’t get to it.
I got burned in a bad investment deal, but was willing to spend the money to run the person to ground. It was expensive, but I got my attorney’s fees back as part of the judgment and I had to collect the judgment on my own (which is another bitch: Even if you win and are awarded a judgment, its up to you to collect). Good news on that judgment: It paid 10% a year interest on the award. It took me four and a half years to finally enforce it, but when I did, I got his car and effectively closed all of his bank accounts through the writ process.
I don’t know how much this money matters to you, but you had better be prepared to get down and dirty with this guy or walk away and call it a day.
October 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM #463676Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=massivedamagetome]You have been most helpful
How do you know for sure it was Ponzi scheme?
and
I did call a lawyer today as you suggested, they want $1,000’s upfront- I can not help but think am I throwing good money after bad. Also how hard is it to find out if Bartko has any money, even if I did hire a lawyer and won, does he have any money? I suppose there are those asset verification guys but isn’t that expensive and seems safe to assume if he did have any money he transferred it somewhere else, or someone else name?[/quote]Massive: Then do nothing, accept your loss(es) and move on. Simple as that.
If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. Find where his business is domiciled and contact the local police department or Sheriff’s Office and speak with a detective.
If they tell you its a civil matter (and they well might), then you can either hire an attorney (and, yes, it will cost you additional money) or do the research on your own.
Your choices aren’t good ones, unfortunately. You can either accept your $100K+ loss and chalk it up a painful life lesson or prepare to spend more money chasing your $100K and find out that Bartko has spent that on another investor (as part of the Ponzi scheme), has blown the money, or hidden it somewhere you can’t get to it.
I got burned in a bad investment deal, but was willing to spend the money to run the person to ground. It was expensive, but I got my attorney’s fees back as part of the judgment and I had to collect the judgment on my own (which is another bitch: Even if you win and are awarded a judgment, its up to you to collect). Good news on that judgment: It paid 10% a year interest on the award. It took me four and a half years to finally enforce it, but when I did, I got his car and effectively closed all of his bank accounts through the writ process.
I don’t know how much this money matters to you, but you had better be prepared to get down and dirty with this guy or walk away and call it a day.
October 2, 2009 at 4:08 PM #463883Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=massivedamagetome]You have been most helpful
How do you know for sure it was Ponzi scheme?
and
I did call a lawyer today as you suggested, they want $1,000’s upfront- I can not help but think am I throwing good money after bad. Also how hard is it to find out if Bartko has any money, even if I did hire a lawyer and won, does he have any money? I suppose there are those asset verification guys but isn’t that expensive and seems safe to assume if he did have any money he transferred it somewhere else, or someone else name?[/quote]Massive: Then do nothing, accept your loss(es) and move on. Simple as that.
If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. Find where his business is domiciled and contact the local police department or Sheriff’s Office and speak with a detective.
If they tell you its a civil matter (and they well might), then you can either hire an attorney (and, yes, it will cost you additional money) or do the research on your own.
Your choices aren’t good ones, unfortunately. You can either accept your $100K+ loss and chalk it up a painful life lesson or prepare to spend more money chasing your $100K and find out that Bartko has spent that on another investor (as part of the Ponzi scheme), has blown the money, or hidden it somewhere you can’t get to it.
I got burned in a bad investment deal, but was willing to spend the money to run the person to ground. It was expensive, but I got my attorney’s fees back as part of the judgment and I had to collect the judgment on my own (which is another bitch: Even if you win and are awarded a judgment, its up to you to collect). Good news on that judgment: It paid 10% a year interest on the award. It took me four and a half years to finally enforce it, but when I did, I got his car and effectively closed all of his bank accounts through the writ process.
I don’t know how much this money matters to you, but you had better be prepared to get down and dirty with this guy or walk away and call it a day.
October 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM #463103Anonymous
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. [/quote]
I have some experience with these situations as well, and I agree with Allan’s advice.
Law enforcement may care, they may not. It depends upon their priorities at the time. Sometimes they have bigger cases to deal with, so yours may not make the cut. Find out as much as you can about others who are victims. (Unfortunately there a lot of ponzi schemes collapsing now, and there are some big cases out there).
Be sure to approach multiple enforcement organizations, not just the local police. The decision to take the case will depend on the individual’s motivation, caseload, and even the size of the case relative to their career goals. All you need is one person in law enforcement to take an interest, so talk to as many as you can.
One of the crimes that Bartko has committed is securities fraud. Most folks don’t know this, but almost any investment, including the notes he sold you, are legally classified as a security. Two organizations that deal with this are the CA Department of Corporations and the SEC, so you can contact both of them as well (don’t forget the FBI also).
In any case you are in for a long fight. It will take years. Allan prevailed because a good soldier drives on until his mission is complete. You will have to do the same.
BTW: Allan, I just secured a judgment of my own. I’ve been doing my homework on how to collect and I’m encouraged by your story.
October 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM #463295Anonymous
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. [/quote]
I have some experience with these situations as well, and I agree with Allan’s advice.
Law enforcement may care, they may not. It depends upon their priorities at the time. Sometimes they have bigger cases to deal with, so yours may not make the cut. Find out as much as you can about others who are victims. (Unfortunately there a lot of ponzi schemes collapsing now, and there are some big cases out there).
Be sure to approach multiple enforcement organizations, not just the local police. The decision to take the case will depend on the individual’s motivation, caseload, and even the size of the case relative to their career goals. All you need is one person in law enforcement to take an interest, so talk to as many as you can.
One of the crimes that Bartko has committed is securities fraud. Most folks don’t know this, but almost any investment, including the notes he sold you, are legally classified as a security. Two organizations that deal with this are the CA Department of Corporations and the SEC, so you can contact both of them as well (don’t forget the FBI also).
In any case you are in for a long fight. It will take years. Allan prevailed because a good soldier drives on until his mission is complete. You will have to do the same.
BTW: Allan, I just secured a judgment of my own. I’ve been doing my homework on how to collect and I’m encouraged by your story.
October 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM #463640Anonymous
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. [/quote]
I have some experience with these situations as well, and I agree with Allan’s advice.
Law enforcement may care, they may not. It depends upon their priorities at the time. Sometimes they have bigger cases to deal with, so yours may not make the cut. Find out as much as you can about others who are victims. (Unfortunately there a lot of ponzi schemes collapsing now, and there are some big cases out there).
Be sure to approach multiple enforcement organizations, not just the local police. The decision to take the case will depend on the individual’s motivation, caseload, and even the size of the case relative to their career goals. All you need is one person in law enforcement to take an interest, so talk to as many as you can.
One of the crimes that Bartko has committed is securities fraud. Most folks don’t know this, but almost any investment, including the notes he sold you, are legally classified as a security. Two organizations that deal with this are the CA Department of Corporations and the SEC, so you can contact both of them as well (don’t forget the FBI also).
In any case you are in for a long fight. It will take years. Allan prevailed because a good soldier drives on until his mission is complete. You will have to do the same.
BTW: Allan, I just secured a judgment of my own. I’ve been doing my homework on how to collect and I’m encouraged by your story.
October 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM #463711Anonymous
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. [/quote]
I have some experience with these situations as well, and I agree with Allan’s advice.
Law enforcement may care, they may not. It depends upon their priorities at the time. Sometimes they have bigger cases to deal with, so yours may not make the cut. Find out as much as you can about others who are victims. (Unfortunately there a lot of ponzi schemes collapsing now, and there are some big cases out there).
Be sure to approach multiple enforcement organizations, not just the local police. The decision to take the case will depend on the individual’s motivation, caseload, and even the size of the case relative to their career goals. All you need is one person in law enforcement to take an interest, so talk to as many as you can.
One of the crimes that Bartko has committed is securities fraud. Most folks don’t know this, but almost any investment, including the notes he sold you, are legally classified as a security. Two organizations that deal with this are the CA Department of Corporations and the SEC, so you can contact both of them as well (don’t forget the FBI also).
In any case you are in for a long fight. It will take years. Allan prevailed because a good soldier drives on until his mission is complete. You will have to do the same.
BTW: Allan, I just secured a judgment of my own. I’ve been doing my homework on how to collect and I’m encouraged by your story.
October 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM #463918Anonymous
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]If you do plan on doing something, I would start with law enforcement. [/quote]
I have some experience with these situations as well, and I agree with Allan’s advice.
Law enforcement may care, they may not. It depends upon their priorities at the time. Sometimes they have bigger cases to deal with, so yours may not make the cut. Find out as much as you can about others who are victims. (Unfortunately there a lot of ponzi schemes collapsing now, and there are some big cases out there).
Be sure to approach multiple enforcement organizations, not just the local police. The decision to take the case will depend on the individual’s motivation, caseload, and even the size of the case relative to their career goals. All you need is one person in law enforcement to take an interest, so talk to as many as you can.
One of the crimes that Bartko has committed is securities fraud. Most folks don’t know this, but almost any investment, including the notes he sold you, are legally classified as a security. Two organizations that deal with this are the CA Department of Corporations and the SEC, so you can contact both of them as well (don’t forget the FBI also).
In any case you are in for a long fight. It will take years. Allan prevailed because a good soldier drives on until his mission is complete. You will have to do the same.
BTW: Allan, I just secured a judgment of my own. I’ve been doing my homework on how to collect and I’m encouraged by your story.
October 2, 2009 at 5:54 PM #463125Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantPri: You’re right and I didn’t even think about securities fraud. I think its Securities Act of 1933 that governs disclosure and compliance, but I might be wrong.
In terms of your judgment, I will tell you that I had the most success with the JDX (judgment debtor exam) preceded by a Subpoena Duces Tecum. Use the subpoena to list everything you can think of terms of assets (I had an attorney buddy help me with mine). List bank accounts, savings accounts, investments, personal assets like jewelry and art and even appliances, along with vehicles and on and on. Literally anything you can think of.
My guy tried to play cute and not bring any information to his JDX and the judge stuck his ass in County for three days. Cured that right quick. I hit him with repeated JDXs over the years and kept on top of him in terms of where he was living, where he worked (you can garnish wages and “till tap” him with the Sheriff if he owns his own business, by the way) and what he owned. I seized a $20K Honda of his (actually his wife’s car, but I had named her in the action) and had it sold at Sheriff’s auction (where it only netted $8K; too bad for him).
You have a tremendous amount of power, post-judgment, and there are quite a few resources online that can help in your enforcement. Use that JDX, though, its very powerful and the judges will help, in terms of making sure that the debtor toes the line.
Good luck on yours and let me know if I can help at all.
RLTW (Rangers Lead The Way)
October 2, 2009 at 5:54 PM #463317Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantPri: You’re right and I didn’t even think about securities fraud. I think its Securities Act of 1933 that governs disclosure and compliance, but I might be wrong.
In terms of your judgment, I will tell you that I had the most success with the JDX (judgment debtor exam) preceded by a Subpoena Duces Tecum. Use the subpoena to list everything you can think of terms of assets (I had an attorney buddy help me with mine). List bank accounts, savings accounts, investments, personal assets like jewelry and art and even appliances, along with vehicles and on and on. Literally anything you can think of.
My guy tried to play cute and not bring any information to his JDX and the judge stuck his ass in County for three days. Cured that right quick. I hit him with repeated JDXs over the years and kept on top of him in terms of where he was living, where he worked (you can garnish wages and “till tap” him with the Sheriff if he owns his own business, by the way) and what he owned. I seized a $20K Honda of his (actually his wife’s car, but I had named her in the action) and had it sold at Sheriff’s auction (where it only netted $8K; too bad for him).
You have a tremendous amount of power, post-judgment, and there are quite a few resources online that can help in your enforcement. Use that JDX, though, its very powerful and the judges will help, in terms of making sure that the debtor toes the line.
Good luck on yours and let me know if I can help at all.
RLTW (Rangers Lead The Way)
October 2, 2009 at 5:54 PM #463662Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantPri: You’re right and I didn’t even think about securities fraud. I think its Securities Act of 1933 that governs disclosure and compliance, but I might be wrong.
In terms of your judgment, I will tell you that I had the most success with the JDX (judgment debtor exam) preceded by a Subpoena Duces Tecum. Use the subpoena to list everything you can think of terms of assets (I had an attorney buddy help me with mine). List bank accounts, savings accounts, investments, personal assets like jewelry and art and even appliances, along with vehicles and on and on. Literally anything you can think of.
My guy tried to play cute and not bring any information to his JDX and the judge stuck his ass in County for three days. Cured that right quick. I hit him with repeated JDXs over the years and kept on top of him in terms of where he was living, where he worked (you can garnish wages and “till tap” him with the Sheriff if he owns his own business, by the way) and what he owned. I seized a $20K Honda of his (actually his wife’s car, but I had named her in the action) and had it sold at Sheriff’s auction (where it only netted $8K; too bad for him).
You have a tremendous amount of power, post-judgment, and there are quite a few resources online that can help in your enforcement. Use that JDX, though, its very powerful and the judges will help, in terms of making sure that the debtor toes the line.
Good luck on yours and let me know if I can help at all.
RLTW (Rangers Lead The Way)
October 2, 2009 at 5:54 PM #463733Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantPri: You’re right and I didn’t even think about securities fraud. I think its Securities Act of 1933 that governs disclosure and compliance, but I might be wrong.
In terms of your judgment, I will tell you that I had the most success with the JDX (judgment debtor exam) preceded by a Subpoena Duces Tecum. Use the subpoena to list everything you can think of terms of assets (I had an attorney buddy help me with mine). List bank accounts, savings accounts, investments, personal assets like jewelry and art and even appliances, along with vehicles and on and on. Literally anything you can think of.
My guy tried to play cute and not bring any information to his JDX and the judge stuck his ass in County for three days. Cured that right quick. I hit him with repeated JDXs over the years and kept on top of him in terms of where he was living, where he worked (you can garnish wages and “till tap” him with the Sheriff if he owns his own business, by the way) and what he owned. I seized a $20K Honda of his (actually his wife’s car, but I had named her in the action) and had it sold at Sheriff’s auction (where it only netted $8K; too bad for him).
You have a tremendous amount of power, post-judgment, and there are quite a few resources online that can help in your enforcement. Use that JDX, though, its very powerful and the judges will help, in terms of making sure that the debtor toes the line.
Good luck on yours and let me know if I can help at all.
RLTW (Rangers Lead The Way)
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.