How did we get here?

[Arraya]

Don’t worry about it your government is in control.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517
“While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated,” said the official.

Actually, they defaulted on 7 billion of bailout money but I believe they are Italy and Fiat’s problem now. I also noticed that the loan that they held for 3 months and bk’d on had a 300 million dollar fee on it. So somebody is making money. Besides, 7 billion is chump change these days. If AIG or BOA sneezes it cost 10 billion or so. Actually, BOA needs another 34 billion. Since the stress test were not that stressful they will definitely need more money in the future. So we got that going for us.

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]I know jp, I know… but printing money is… well it is to be expected.

To me this is a hell of alot more scary. Our government is taking ownership of a private company. The union who backed the current party in power, is now partial owner of that company. It is likely this will happen to another company.

Doesnt this seem kind of scary to you?

*************

I mean, I guess what is more scary to me is that the public, the press, well pretty much nobody is batting an eye.

[/quote]

Half-baked victory for UAW:

“But when you consider the 55% is in a company that lost $16.8 billion last year and has seen its sales drop by half, the victory seems less impressive…
Plus, the union’s control in the boardroom will be limited. Despite the large stake, it gets only one seat on a nine-member board that will govern a new Chrysler-Fiat joint venture.

I think it’s a whole lot weaker than it appears,” said Gerald Meyers, a University of Michigan business professor and former CEO of American Motors Corp. ‘I would say the UAW wouldn’t want to get into the speculative game of the stock market. That’s not reassuring to retirees.’

The employees don’t own any part of Chrysler or GM, it’s the health trust, and they’re going to sell that stock as soon as they can. It’s more like somebody saying ‘I can’t pay the money I owe you, so take some stock and you can sell it.”‘

That’s exactly what the union intends to do, its president Ron Gettelfinger said Friday in an interview with National Public Radio.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-03-uaw-chrysler_N.htm

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]I know jp, I know… but printing money is… well it is to be expected.

To me this is a hell of alot more scary. Our government is taking ownership of a private company. The union who backed the current party in power, is now partial owner of that company. It is likely this will happen to another company.

Doesnt this seem kind of scary to you?

*************

I mean, I guess what is more scary to me is that the public, the press, well pretty much nobody is batting an eye.

[/quote]

Half-baked victory for UAW:

“But when you consider the 55% is in a company that lost $16.8 billion last year and has seen its sales drop by half, the victory seems less impressive…
Plus, the union’s control in the boardroom will be limited. Despite the large stake, it gets only one seat on a nine-member board that will govern a new Chrysler-Fiat joint venture.

I think it’s a whole lot weaker than it appears,” said Gerald Meyers, a University of Michigan business professor and former CEO of American Motors Corp. ‘I would say the UAW wouldn’t want to get into the speculative game of the stock market. That’s not reassuring to retirees.’

The employees don’t own any part of Chrysler or GM, it’s the health trust, and they’re going to sell that stock as soon as they can. It’s more like somebody saying ‘I can’t pay the money I owe you, so take some stock and you can sell it.”‘

That’s exactly what the union intends to do, its president Ron Gettelfinger said Friday in an interview with National Public Radio.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-03-uaw-chrysler_N.htm

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]I know jp, I know… but printing money is… well it is to be expected.

To me this is a hell of alot more scary. Our government is taking ownership of a private company. The union who backed the current party in power, is now partial owner of that company. It is likely this will happen to another company.

Doesnt this seem kind of scary to you?

*************

I mean, I guess what is more scary to me is that the public, the press, well pretty much nobody is batting an eye.

[/quote]

Half-baked victory for UAW:

“But when you consider the 55% is in a company that lost $16.8 billion last year and has seen its sales drop by half, the victory seems less impressive…
Plus, the union’s control in the boardroom will be limited. Despite the large stake, it gets only one seat on a nine-member board that will govern a new Chrysler-Fiat joint venture.

I think it’s a whole lot weaker than it appears,” said Gerald Meyers, a University of Michigan business professor and former CEO of American Motors Corp. ‘I would say the UAW wouldn’t want to get into the speculative game of the stock market. That’s not reassuring to retirees.’

The employees don’t own any part of Chrysler or GM, it’s the health trust, and they’re going to sell that stock as soon as they can. It’s more like somebody saying ‘I can’t pay the money I owe you, so take some stock and you can sell it.”‘

That’s exactly what the union intends to do, its president Ron Gettelfinger said Friday in an interview with National Public Radio.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-03-uaw-chrysler_N.htm

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]I know jp, I know… but printing money is… well it is to be expected.

To me this is a hell of alot more scary. Our government is taking ownership of a private company. The union who backed the current party in power, is now partial owner of that company. It is likely this will happen to another company.

Doesnt this seem kind of scary to you?

*************

I mean, I guess what is more scary to me is that the public, the press, well pretty much nobody is batting an eye.

[/quote]

Half-baked victory for UAW:

“But when you consider the 55% is in a company that lost $16.8 billion last year and has seen its sales drop by half, the victory seems less impressive…
Plus, the union’s control in the boardroom will be limited. Despite the large stake, it gets only one seat on a nine-member board that will govern a new Chrysler-Fiat joint venture.

I think it’s a whole lot weaker than it appears,” said Gerald Meyers, a University of Michigan business professor and former CEO of American Motors Corp. ‘I would say the UAW wouldn’t want to get into the speculative game of the stock market. That’s not reassuring to retirees.’

The employees don’t own any part of Chrysler or GM, it’s the health trust, and they’re going to sell that stock as soon as they can. It’s more like somebody saying ‘I can’t pay the money I owe you, so take some stock and you can sell it.”‘

That’s exactly what the union intends to do, its president Ron Gettelfinger said Friday in an interview with National Public Radio.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-03-uaw-chrysler_N.htm

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]I know jp, I know… but printing money is… well it is to be expected.

To me this is a hell of alot more scary. Our government is taking ownership of a private company. The union who backed the current party in power, is now partial owner of that company. It is likely this will happen to another company.

Doesnt this seem kind of scary to you?

*************

I mean, I guess what is more scary to me is that the public, the press, well pretty much nobody is batting an eye.

[/quote]

Half-baked victory for UAW:

“But when you consider the 55% is in a company that lost $16.8 billion last year and has seen its sales drop by half, the victory seems less impressive…
Plus, the union’s control in the boardroom will be limited. Despite the large stake, it gets only one seat on a nine-member board that will govern a new Chrysler-Fiat joint venture.

I think it’s a whole lot weaker than it appears,” said Gerald Meyers, a University of Michigan business professor and former CEO of American Motors Corp. ‘I would say the UAW wouldn’t want to get into the speculative game of the stock market. That’s not reassuring to retirees.’

The employees don’t own any part of Chrysler or GM, it’s the health trust, and they’re going to sell that stock as soon as they can. It’s more like somebody saying ‘I can’t pay the money I owe you, so take some stock and you can sell it.”‘

That’s exactly what the union intends to do, its president Ron Gettelfinger said Friday in an interview with National Public Radio.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-03-uaw-chrysler_N.htm

[Coronita]

[quote=Arraya]Don’t worry about it your government is in control.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517
“While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated,” said the official.

Actually, they defaulted on 7 billion of bailout money but I believe they are Italy and Fiat’s problem now. I also noticed that the loan that they held for 3 months and bk’d on had a 300 million dollar fee on it. So somebody is making money. Besides, 7 billion is chump change these days. If AIG or BOA sneezes it cost 10 billion or so. Actually, BOA needs another 34 billion. Since the stress test were not that stressful they will definitely need more money in the future. So we got that going for us. [/quote]

Yes, but probably the ramifications of a bank/financial institution failure like BOA or AIG is probably much more widespread than a Chrysler. Unfortunately, it probably is true there is no main street without wall street.

[Coronita]

[quote=Arraya]Don’t worry about it your government is in control.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517
“While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated,” said the official.

Actually, they defaulted on 7 billion of bailout money but I believe they are Italy and Fiat’s problem now. I also noticed that the loan that they held for 3 months and bk’d on had a 300 million dollar fee on it. So somebody is making money. Besides, 7 billion is chump change these days. If AIG or BOA sneezes it cost 10 billion or so. Actually, BOA needs another 34 billion. Since the stress test were not that stressful they will definitely need more money in the future. So we got that going for us. [/quote]

Yes, but probably the ramifications of a bank/financial institution failure like BOA or AIG is probably much more widespread than a Chrysler. Unfortunately, it probably is true there is no main street without wall street.

[Coronita]

[quote=Arraya]Don’t worry about it your government is in control.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517
“While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated,” said the official.

Actually, they defaulted on 7 billion of bailout money but I believe they are Italy and Fiat’s problem now. I also noticed that the loan that they held for 3 months and bk’d on had a 300 million dollar fee on it. So somebody is making money. Besides, 7 billion is chump change these days. If AIG or BOA sneezes it cost 10 billion or so. Actually, BOA needs another 34 billion. Since the stress test were not that stressful they will definitely need more money in the future. So we got that going for us. [/quote]

Yes, but probably the ramifications of a bank/financial institution failure like BOA or AIG is probably much more widespread than a Chrysler. Unfortunately, it probably is true there is no main street without wall street.

[Coronita]

[quote=Arraya]Don’t worry about it your government is in control.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517
“While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated,” said the official.

Actually, they defaulted on 7 billion of bailout money but I believe they are Italy and Fiat’s problem now. I also noticed that the loan that they held for 3 months and bk’d on had a 300 million dollar fee on it. So somebody is making money. Besides, 7 billion is chump change these days. If AIG or BOA sneezes it cost 10 billion or so. Actually, BOA needs another 34 billion. Since the stress test were not that stressful they will definitely need more money in the future. So we got that going for us. [/quote]

Yes, but probably the ramifications of a bank/financial institution failure like BOA or AIG is probably much more widespread than a Chrysler. Unfortunately, it probably is true there is no main street without wall street.

[Coronita]

[quote=Arraya]Don’t worry about it your government is in control.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517
“While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated,” said the official.

Actually, they defaulted on 7 billion of bailout money but I believe they are Italy and Fiat’s problem now. I also noticed that the loan that they held for 3 months and bk’d on had a 300 million dollar fee on it. So somebody is making money. Besides, 7 billion is chump change these days. If AIG or BOA sneezes it cost 10 billion or so. Actually, BOA needs another 34 billion. Since the stress test were not that stressful they will definitely need more money in the future. So we got that going for us. [/quote]

Yes, but probably the ramifications of a bank/financial institution failure like BOA or AIG is probably much more widespread than a Chrysler. Unfortunately, it probably is true there is no main street without wall street.

[Coronita]

SDR, this bailout of Chrysler is just full of ironies. And it’s really quite disgusting…

Some examples

#1)UAW will be given a good percentage of Chrysler without voting rights…..The irony is that the UAW union chief says the first thing he wants to do is sell Chrysler stock..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30568354/

#2)The Chrysler bankruptcy is proceeding and skirting how typically the pecking order of creditors. Although Obama is painting an “evil” portrait of those objecting the creditors who object to this hurried fiat deal and the terms of the bonds payments, this “deal”

a) isn’t really an open bid to get the best possible price

b) Senior creditors included institutions that DID NOT receive TARP, but yet the government is trying to strong arm them into accepting 30cents on the dollar (they’re asking for 60)…and this fiat deal is going through first rewards more junior creditors than senior, which is disturbing imho

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/04/chrysler-creditors-continue-to-object-claim-death-threats/

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-autos/idUSTRE54016D20090501

Yet notice how obama blasted those creditors for not accepting the government’s strong arm attempt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/obama-blasts-hedge-funds-_n_193784.html

#3 Chrysler is now forcing the fiat deal to go throw by throwing in a poison pill if the deal with fiat falls apart… $35 million to be exact.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-pursuing-clause-to-award-fiat-35-million-if-deal-falls/

#4 Chrysler has no plans on paying that $4.5 billion back that taxpayers loaned to them.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-unlikely-to-pay-back-most-recent-4-5-billion-govt-loa/

#5 BUT the biggest irony is, after all said and done….despite all the flag waving and patriotism about “buying american”… In the very end, after this deal, buying a “Chrysler” is no longer buying an “american” car. Fiat will own the controlling stake. Fiat already has plans to put it’s lineup in the U.S. And it’s questionable what Chrysler vehicles will remain to be produced. Chrysler is already going to be parting the factories that make the Sebring/Stratus/Ram truck/Viper.

A good portion of profits of this new company (if any) will go overseas. True, this will save some american jobs…But this completely shoots down people who argue that buying a toyota/honda made in the U.S. is not as “american” because money is still sent to japan.

#6 With this merger, you’ll have Fiat (which historically produces unreliable cars) merging with Chrysler (which also historically produces unreliable cars) together that most likely will eventually will produce a hell of a lot of unreliable cars.

I really was hoping the Chrysler deal would have fallen apart. It’s one big expenditure, questionable whether this arrangement will produce profits, and regardless, we taxpayers aren’t going to get paid back for this.

The only thing I’m looking forward too is when Wall Street give Obama the ole finger in the next election.

[Coronita]

SDR, this bailout of Chrysler is just full of ironies. And it’s really quite disgusting…

Some examples

#1)UAW will be given a good percentage of Chrysler without voting rights…..The irony is that the UAW union chief says the first thing he wants to do is sell Chrysler stock..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30568354/

#2)The Chrysler bankruptcy is proceeding and skirting how typically the pecking order of creditors. Although Obama is painting an “evil” portrait of those objecting the creditors who object to this hurried fiat deal and the terms of the bonds payments, this “deal”

a) isn’t really an open bid to get the best possible price

b) Senior creditors included institutions that DID NOT receive TARP, but yet the government is trying to strong arm them into accepting 30cents on the dollar (they’re asking for 60)…and this fiat deal is going through first rewards more junior creditors than senior, which is disturbing imho

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/04/chrysler-creditors-continue-to-object-claim-death-threats/

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-autos/idUSTRE54016D20090501

Yet notice how obama blasted those creditors for not accepting the government’s strong arm attempt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/obama-blasts-hedge-funds-_n_193784.html

#3 Chrysler is now forcing the fiat deal to go throw by throwing in a poison pill if the deal with fiat falls apart… $35 million to be exact.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-pursuing-clause-to-award-fiat-35-million-if-deal-falls/

#4 Chrysler has no plans on paying that $4.5 billion back that taxpayers loaned to them.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-unlikely-to-pay-back-most-recent-4-5-billion-govt-loa/

#5 BUT the biggest irony is, after all said and done….despite all the flag waving and patriotism about “buying american”… In the very end, after this deal, buying a “Chrysler” is no longer buying an “american” car. Fiat will own the controlling stake. Fiat already has plans to put it’s lineup in the U.S. And it’s questionable what Chrysler vehicles will remain to be produced. Chrysler is already going to be parting the factories that make the Sebring/Stratus/Ram truck/Viper.

A good portion of profits of this new company (if any) will go overseas. True, this will save some american jobs…But this completely shoots down people who argue that buying a toyota/honda made in the U.S. is not as “american” because money is still sent to japan.

#6 With this merger, you’ll have Fiat (which historically produces unreliable cars) merging with Chrysler (which also historically produces unreliable cars) together that most likely will eventually will produce a hell of a lot of unreliable cars.

I really was hoping the Chrysler deal would have fallen apart. It’s one big expenditure, questionable whether this arrangement will produce profits, and regardless, we taxpayers aren’t going to get paid back for this.

The only thing I’m looking forward too is when Wall Street give Obama the ole finger in the next election.

[Coronita]

SDR, this bailout of Chrysler is just full of ironies. And it’s really quite disgusting…

Some examples

#1)UAW will be given a good percentage of Chrysler without voting rights…..The irony is that the UAW union chief says the first thing he wants to do is sell Chrysler stock..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30568354/

#2)The Chrysler bankruptcy is proceeding and skirting how typically the pecking order of creditors. Although Obama is painting an “evil” portrait of those objecting the creditors who object to this hurried fiat deal and the terms of the bonds payments, this “deal”

a) isn’t really an open bid to get the best possible price

b) Senior creditors included institutions that DID NOT receive TARP, but yet the government is trying to strong arm them into accepting 30cents on the dollar (they’re asking for 60)…and this fiat deal is going through first rewards more junior creditors than senior, which is disturbing imho

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/04/chrysler-creditors-continue-to-object-claim-death-threats/

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-autos/idUSTRE54016D20090501

Yet notice how obama blasted those creditors for not accepting the government’s strong arm attempt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/obama-blasts-hedge-funds-_n_193784.html

#3 Chrysler is now forcing the fiat deal to go throw by throwing in a poison pill if the deal with fiat falls apart… $35 million to be exact.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-pursuing-clause-to-award-fiat-35-million-if-deal-falls/

#4 Chrysler has no plans on paying that $4.5 billion back that taxpayers loaned to them.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-unlikely-to-pay-back-most-recent-4-5-billion-govt-loa/

#5 BUT the biggest irony is, after all said and done….despite all the flag waving and patriotism about “buying american”… In the very end, after this deal, buying a “Chrysler” is no longer buying an “american” car. Fiat will own the controlling stake. Fiat already has plans to put it’s lineup in the U.S. And it’s questionable what Chrysler vehicles will remain to be produced. Chrysler is already going to be parting the factories that make the Sebring/Stratus/Ram truck/Viper.

A good portion of profits of this new company (if any) will go overseas. True, this will save some american jobs…But this completely shoots down people who argue that buying a toyota/honda made in the U.S. is not as “american” because money is still sent to japan.

#6 With this merger, you’ll have Fiat (which historically produces unreliable cars) merging with Chrysler (which also historically produces unreliable cars) together that most likely will eventually will produce a hell of a lot of unreliable cars.

I really was hoping the Chrysler deal would have fallen apart. It’s one big expenditure, questionable whether this arrangement will produce profits, and regardless, we taxpayers aren’t going to get paid back for this.

The only thing I’m looking forward too is when Wall Street give Obama the ole finger in the next election.

[Coronita]

SDR, this bailout of Chrysler is just full of ironies. And it’s really quite disgusting…

Some examples

#1)UAW will be given a good percentage of Chrysler without voting rights…..The irony is that the UAW union chief says the first thing he wants to do is sell Chrysler stock..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30568354/

#2)The Chrysler bankruptcy is proceeding and skirting how typically the pecking order of creditors. Although Obama is painting an “evil” portrait of those objecting the creditors who object to this hurried fiat deal and the terms of the bonds payments, this “deal”

a) isn’t really an open bid to get the best possible price

b) Senior creditors included institutions that DID NOT receive TARP, but yet the government is trying to strong arm them into accepting 30cents on the dollar (they’re asking for 60)…and this fiat deal is going through first rewards more junior creditors than senior, which is disturbing imho

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/04/chrysler-creditors-continue-to-object-claim-death-threats/

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-autos/idUSTRE54016D20090501

Yet notice how obama blasted those creditors for not accepting the government’s strong arm attempt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/obama-blasts-hedge-funds-_n_193784.html

#3 Chrysler is now forcing the fiat deal to go throw by throwing in a poison pill if the deal with fiat falls apart… $35 million to be exact.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-pursuing-clause-to-award-fiat-35-million-if-deal-falls/

#4 Chrysler has no plans on paying that $4.5 billion back that taxpayers loaned to them.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/chrysler-unlikely-to-pay-back-most-recent-4-5-billion-govt-loa/

#5 BUT the biggest irony is, after all said and done….despite all the flag waving and patriotism about “buying american”… In the very end, after this deal, buying a “Chrysler” is no longer buying an “american” car. Fiat will own the controlling stake. Fiat already has plans to put it’s lineup in the U.S. And it’s questionable what Chrysler vehicles will remain to be produced. Chrysler is already going to be parting the factories that make the Sebring/Stratus/Ram truck/Viper.

A good portion of profits of this new company (if any) will go overseas. True, this will save some american jobs…But this completely shoots down people who argue that buying a toyota/honda made in the U.S. is not as “american” because money is still sent to japan.

#6 With this merger, you’ll have Fiat (which historically produces unreliable cars) merging with Chrysler (which also historically produces unreliable cars) together that most likely will eventually will produce a hell of a lot of unreliable cars.

I really was hoping the Chrysler deal would have fallen apart. It’s one big expenditure, questionable whether this arrangement will produce profits, and regardless, we taxpayers aren’t going to get paid back for this.

The only thing I’m looking forward too is when Wall Street give Obama the ole finger in the next election.

[Author]

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