How’s the IT Job Market?

[LAAFTERHOURS]

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker][quote=eclipxe]I work for a smaller development company and we’re actively trying to hire.

I think it is important to separate general “IT” from “Software Development”. A non technology company views IT developers as a cost center, a software company views developers as a profit center and treats them as such.

Good developers (that are in the field because they view it as an art and a creative endeavor) will not have a problem finding work, even in this market. Developers that are in it to collect a pay check will struggle when faced with outsourced labor that will do it with the same lack of passion but cheaper.

There is a very interesting thread on Joel on Software where developers are discussing the current job market and desire to leave the industry. Very relevant to this thread: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.718003.14%5B/quote%5D

Work for a company or start one that’s business is software products or services. Not some IT position at say some insurance company doing some back office crap. World of difference.

[/quote]

I may be the lucky one but took an “IT” job with a local insurance company and they decided to spend in a down market by phasing out all legacy systems to a centralized ERP platform, which has been done once in the US for a certain line of business. Luckily I was an ex-sap consultant in the right place at the right time.

Point is to not assume all industries are bad IT shops, they could have something on the horizon.

[mixxalot]

“Also, some companies keep positions open on the website even though they have a hiring freeze. It’s a image thing. Some even go through the song and dance of interviewing people (locally that requires no cost), only to not hire.”

Very true, I interviewed several times over the years at Oracle Corporation. Qualified for the open DBA jobs. Every time did well on the interviews and background check. Then hiring freeze emails and phone calls from the manager and recruiter. Very frustrating to spend hours and get hopes up for a job prospect only to have it turn to dirt.

[mixxalot]

“Also, some companies keep positions open on the website even though they have a hiring freeze. It’s a image thing. Some even go through the song and dance of interviewing people (locally that requires no cost), only to not hire.”

Very true, I interviewed several times over the years at Oracle Corporation. Qualified for the open DBA jobs. Every time did well on the interviews and background check. Then hiring freeze emails and phone calls from the manager and recruiter. Very frustrating to spend hours and get hopes up for a job prospect only to have it turn to dirt.

[mixxalot]

“Also, some companies keep positions open on the website even though they have a hiring freeze. It’s a image thing. Some even go through the song and dance of interviewing people (locally that requires no cost), only to not hire.”

Very true, I interviewed several times over the years at Oracle Corporation. Qualified for the open DBA jobs. Every time did well on the interviews and background check. Then hiring freeze emails and phone calls from the manager and recruiter. Very frustrating to spend hours and get hopes up for a job prospect only to have it turn to dirt.

[mixxalot]

“Also, some companies keep positions open on the website even though they have a hiring freeze. It’s a image thing. Some even go through the song and dance of interviewing people (locally that requires no cost), only to not hire.”

Very true, I interviewed several times over the years at Oracle Corporation. Qualified for the open DBA jobs. Every time did well on the interviews and background check. Then hiring freeze emails and phone calls from the manager and recruiter. Very frustrating to spend hours and get hopes up for a job prospect only to have it turn to dirt.

[mixxalot]

“Also, some companies keep positions open on the website even though they have a hiring freeze. It’s a image thing. Some even go through the song and dance of interviewing people (locally that requires no cost), only to not hire.”

Very true, I interviewed several times over the years at Oracle Corporation. Qualified for the open DBA jobs. Every time did well on the interviews and background check. Then hiring freeze emails and phone calls from the manager and recruiter. Very frustrating to spend hours and get hopes up for a job prospect only to have it turn to dirt.

[BGinRB]

[quote=anxvariety]
He mentioned that the interviewees were letting it be known that they’d take 30-50% less than the usual salary[/quote]

Right, as observed.

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]
Um, yeah, and those are probably some of the same small companies that in good times try to convince people to take a 30-50% pay cut in return for as much “pre-ipo toilet paper stock certificates”….. and wonder why it’s so difficult to hire good talent or why their development/projects suck egg. I have not seen a company succeed in the long run primarily driven by cost cutting and finding the cheapest “labor” of development. Doing so infers they aren’t really building anything that cannot be easily done by someone else, and hence really lack a barrier to entry and competition. If that isn’t a warning sign of how you’re valued even before you show up for work, guess what happens when you do show up for work.
[/quote]

Agreed, but irrelevant. The sad part is that the candidates were aware of all that (it was a LAMP stack webdev, not an IT position). The incident reminded me of late 2002/early 2003 when people with established careers and decade(s) of experience were just looking for something to tide them over and were taking 50% pay cut.

[BGinRB]

[quote=anxvariety]
He mentioned that the interviewees were letting it be known that they’d take 30-50% less than the usual salary[/quote]

Right, as observed.

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]
Um, yeah, and those are probably some of the same small companies that in good times try to convince people to take a 30-50% pay cut in return for as much “pre-ipo toilet paper stock certificates”….. and wonder why it’s so difficult to hire good talent or why their development/projects suck egg. I have not seen a company succeed in the long run primarily driven by cost cutting and finding the cheapest “labor” of development. Doing so infers they aren’t really building anything that cannot be easily done by someone else, and hence really lack a barrier to entry and competition. If that isn’t a warning sign of how you’re valued even before you show up for work, guess what happens when you do show up for work.
[/quote]

Agreed, but irrelevant. The sad part is that the candidates were aware of all that (it was a LAMP stack webdev, not an IT position). The incident reminded me of late 2002/early 2003 when people with established careers and decade(s) of experience were just looking for something to tide them over and were taking 50% pay cut.

[BGinRB]

[quote=anxvariety]
He mentioned that the interviewees were letting it be known that they’d take 30-50% less than the usual salary[/quote]

Right, as observed.

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]
Um, yeah, and those are probably some of the same small companies that in good times try to convince people to take a 30-50% pay cut in return for as much “pre-ipo toilet paper stock certificates”….. and wonder why it’s so difficult to hire good talent or why their development/projects suck egg. I have not seen a company succeed in the long run primarily driven by cost cutting and finding the cheapest “labor” of development. Doing so infers they aren’t really building anything that cannot be easily done by someone else, and hence really lack a barrier to entry and competition. If that isn’t a warning sign of how you’re valued even before you show up for work, guess what happens when you do show up for work.
[/quote]

Agreed, but irrelevant. The sad part is that the candidates were aware of all that (it was a LAMP stack webdev, not an IT position). The incident reminded me of late 2002/early 2003 when people with established careers and decade(s) of experience were just looking for something to tide them over and were taking 50% pay cut.

[BGinRB]

[quote=anxvariety]
He mentioned that the interviewees were letting it be known that they’d take 30-50% less than the usual salary[/quote]

Right, as observed.

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]
Um, yeah, and those are probably some of the same small companies that in good times try to convince people to take a 30-50% pay cut in return for as much “pre-ipo toilet paper stock certificates”….. and wonder why it’s so difficult to hire good talent or why their development/projects suck egg. I have not seen a company succeed in the long run primarily driven by cost cutting and finding the cheapest “labor” of development. Doing so infers they aren’t really building anything that cannot be easily done by someone else, and hence really lack a barrier to entry and competition. If that isn’t a warning sign of how you’re valued even before you show up for work, guess what happens when you do show up for work.
[/quote]

Agreed, but irrelevant. The sad part is that the candidates were aware of all that (it was a LAMP stack webdev, not an IT position). The incident reminded me of late 2002/early 2003 when people with established careers and decade(s) of experience were just looking for something to tide them over and were taking 50% pay cut.

[BGinRB]

[quote=anxvariety]
He mentioned that the interviewees were letting it be known that they’d take 30-50% less than the usual salary[/quote]

Right, as observed.

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]
Um, yeah, and those are probably some of the same small companies that in good times try to convince people to take a 30-50% pay cut in return for as much “pre-ipo toilet paper stock certificates”….. and wonder why it’s so difficult to hire good talent or why their development/projects suck egg. I have not seen a company succeed in the long run primarily driven by cost cutting and finding the cheapest “labor” of development. Doing so infers they aren’t really building anything that cannot be easily done by someone else, and hence really lack a barrier to entry and competition. If that isn’t a warning sign of how you’re valued even before you show up for work, guess what happens when you do show up for work.
[/quote]

Agreed, but irrelevant. The sad part is that the candidates were aware of all that (it was a LAMP stack webdev, not an IT position). The incident reminded me of late 2002/early 2003 when people with established careers and decade(s) of experience were just looking for something to tide them over and were taking 50% pay cut.

[kewp]

Demand has softened somewhat, but its still there. Good people are still hard to find, as usual.

And any IT gig that can be outsourced isn’t a job most folks would want in the first place.

[kewp]

Demand has softened somewhat, but its still there. Good people are still hard to find, as usual.

And any IT gig that can be outsourced isn’t a job most folks would want in the first place.

[kewp]

Demand has softened somewhat, but its still there. Good people are still hard to find, as usual.

And any IT gig that can be outsourced isn’t a job most folks would want in the first place.

[kewp]

Demand has softened somewhat, but its still there. Good people are still hard to find, as usual.

And any IT gig that can be outsourced isn’t a job most folks would want in the first place.

[Author]

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