Has Goldman fatally damaged their Franchise?

[briansd1]

Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.

[patb]

[quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

[patb]

[quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

[patb]

[quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

[patb]

[quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

[patb]

[quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patb][quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Pat: Nope. Not true. As far as extremists go: The only extremists, like IForget, have largely discredited themselves and are little better than trolls.

No, my point with Brian is that is he is being intellectually dishonest and is not internally consistent with his beliefs (hence my use of the word “discursive”). He avoids answering questions he doesn’t like, contradicts himself incessantly and claims “moral flexibility” when backed into a corner.

My point was: If you’re going to claim a side: Be honest, be consistent and contribute to the dialogue in a forthright manner. Don’t waffle, lie, hedge and/or back water every time you’re caught.

I could honestly care less what your beliefs are. If you genuinely believe and you stand your ground, then I have respect for that. I called Brian a “pragmatic Progressive” with tongue firmly planted in cheek. True Progressives were not “morally flexible”. They held onto their beliefs in the face of incredible opposition and managed to achieve success through sheer imposition of will. They went the distance and regardless of the odds or cost. That, in and of itself, commands and demands respect.

Constantly veering from one side to the other, changing one’s position to suit the status quo, and hiding behind other’s skirts does not.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patb][quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Pat: Nope. Not true. As far as extremists go: The only extremists, like IForget, have largely discredited themselves and are little better than trolls.

No, my point with Brian is that is he is being intellectually dishonest and is not internally consistent with his beliefs (hence my use of the word “discursive”). He avoids answering questions he doesn’t like, contradicts himself incessantly and claims “moral flexibility” when backed into a corner.

My point was: If you’re going to claim a side: Be honest, be consistent and contribute to the dialogue in a forthright manner. Don’t waffle, lie, hedge and/or back water every time you’re caught.

I could honestly care less what your beliefs are. If you genuinely believe and you stand your ground, then I have respect for that. I called Brian a “pragmatic Progressive” with tongue firmly planted in cheek. True Progressives were not “morally flexible”. They held onto their beliefs in the face of incredible opposition and managed to achieve success through sheer imposition of will. They went the distance and regardless of the odds or cost. That, in and of itself, commands and demands respect.

Constantly veering from one side to the other, changing one’s position to suit the status quo, and hiding behind other’s skirts does not.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patb][quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Pat: Nope. Not true. As far as extremists go: The only extremists, like IForget, have largely discredited themselves and are little better than trolls.

No, my point with Brian is that is he is being intellectually dishonest and is not internally consistent with his beliefs (hence my use of the word “discursive”). He avoids answering questions he doesn’t like, contradicts himself incessantly and claims “moral flexibility” when backed into a corner.

My point was: If you’re going to claim a side: Be honest, be consistent and contribute to the dialogue in a forthright manner. Don’t waffle, lie, hedge and/or back water every time you’re caught.

I could honestly care less what your beliefs are. If you genuinely believe and you stand your ground, then I have respect for that. I called Brian a “pragmatic Progressive” with tongue firmly planted in cheek. True Progressives were not “morally flexible”. They held onto their beliefs in the face of incredible opposition and managed to achieve success through sheer imposition of will. They went the distance and regardless of the odds or cost. That, in and of itself, commands and demands respect.

Constantly veering from one side to the other, changing one’s position to suit the status quo, and hiding behind other’s skirts does not.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patb][quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Pat: Nope. Not true. As far as extremists go: The only extremists, like IForget, have largely discredited themselves and are little better than trolls.

No, my point with Brian is that is he is being intellectually dishonest and is not internally consistent with his beliefs (hence my use of the word “discursive”). He avoids answering questions he doesn’t like, contradicts himself incessantly and claims “moral flexibility” when backed into a corner.

My point was: If you’re going to claim a side: Be honest, be consistent and contribute to the dialogue in a forthright manner. Don’t waffle, lie, hedge and/or back water every time you’re caught.

I could honestly care less what your beliefs are. If you genuinely believe and you stand your ground, then I have respect for that. I called Brian a “pragmatic Progressive” with tongue firmly planted in cheek. True Progressives were not “morally flexible”. They held onto their beliefs in the face of incredible opposition and managed to achieve success through sheer imposition of will. They went the distance and regardless of the odds or cost. That, in and of itself, commands and demands respect.

Constantly veering from one side to the other, changing one’s position to suit the status quo, and hiding behind other’s skirts does not.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patb][quote=briansd1]Is there such a thing as a pragmatic progressive?

I’m progressive in that I believe that a society should provide good health care, education and housing to everyone.

Regarding housing, I’m not talking about the subvention schemes the government has come up with so far. I’m talking about government building condos and competing directly with the public sector. I think I’m way on the left on this issue.[/quote]

Brian

Don’t worry about Allan. If you were an ideologue, he’d call you an extremist. you work for what you can get. the civil rights fights took 20 years.

meanwhile conservatives now are selling the idea blacks shouldn’t be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Pat: Nope. Not true. As far as extremists go: The only extremists, like IForget, have largely discredited themselves and are little better than trolls.

No, my point with Brian is that is he is being intellectually dishonest and is not internally consistent with his beliefs (hence my use of the word “discursive”). He avoids answering questions he doesn’t like, contradicts himself incessantly and claims “moral flexibility” when backed into a corner.

My point was: If you’re going to claim a side: Be honest, be consistent and contribute to the dialogue in a forthright manner. Don’t waffle, lie, hedge and/or back water every time you’re caught.

I could honestly care less what your beliefs are. If you genuinely believe and you stand your ground, then I have respect for that. I called Brian a “pragmatic Progressive” with tongue firmly planted in cheek. True Progressives were not “morally flexible”. They held onto their beliefs in the face of incredible opposition and managed to achieve success through sheer imposition of will. They went the distance and regardless of the odds or cost. That, in and of itself, commands and demands respect.

Constantly veering from one side to the other, changing one’s position to suit the status quo, and hiding behind other’s skirts does not.

[patb]

well i’m half hated at the Democratic club and i’m very disliked at the republican club.

mostly because I point out the crimes being pushed by dems.

frankly any dem who isn’t in favor of taking wll street apart with hooks should just become a republican.

me i’d resotre glass steagal and put a 1 basis point tax on all financial transactions.

[patb]

well i’m half hated at the Democratic club and i’m very disliked at the republican club.

mostly because I point out the crimes being pushed by dems.

frankly any dem who isn’t in favor of taking wll street apart with hooks should just become a republican.

me i’d resotre glass steagal and put a 1 basis point tax on all financial transactions.

[patb]

well i’m half hated at the Democratic club and i’m very disliked at the republican club.

mostly because I point out the crimes being pushed by dems.

frankly any dem who isn’t in favor of taking wll street apart with hooks should just become a republican.

me i’d resotre glass steagal and put a 1 basis point tax on all financial transactions.

[patb]

well i’m half hated at the Democratic club and i’m very disliked at the republican club.

mostly because I point out the crimes being pushed by dems.

frankly any dem who isn’t in favor of taking wll street apart with hooks should just become a republican.

me i’d resotre glass steagal and put a 1 basis point tax on all financial transactions.

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