Has Goldman fatally damaged their Franchise?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=IForget][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
To argue that they were the recipient of a “bailout” or some back-room largesse on the part of the Fed is simply unsupported by the facts.
[/quote]

Wrong! Government Sachs clearly benefited from information from the government which wasn’t available to non-insiders:

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/01/13/goldman_sachs-aig_its_likely_worse_than_you_think_97587.html%5B/quote%5D

IForget: Read what I wrote. Then read your response.

I never claimed that they weren’t in possession of inside information. I’d be surprised if they weren’t, especially given the Goldman connections to the NY Fed and the Treasury Dept.

However, at no point did I ever claim that they weren’t in possession of inside information. In point of fact, I never even brought that up.

The word “largesse” as I used it refers to money, not information.

Robust and well-thought out argument otherwise, though. Just link to an outside article and call it a day. Well played, sir.

[scaredyclassic]

and contracts are tossed out all the time…

My family was once told by a tax lawyer that a certain trust absolutely, positively wouldn’t have X effect. And, several years later…it had X effect. When we went back to him, he said, “that’s not possible”. Not just some lame-ass tax lawyer. A family friend at a super-high powered wall street firm who would never have handled our piddly matter otherwise–fees wouldve been more than the amt at issue.

Ever since then, i have taken any hardline legal opinion about the outcome of any event as wrong. Maybe my skepticism is too strong, maybe the lawyer was right and the effect was absolutely unforeseeable, the result of a rule change, or god knows what….. but I prefer to hear from anyone offering an opinion, “Almost certainly” the outcome would be X, unless (and then the explanation of how it potentially goes the other way….)

the best laid plans, contracts, trust, schemes, CDOs, of mice and men oft go awry.

And I personally never ever guarantee anything, ever, no outcome, nothing. I won’t guarantee that we’re not in the f**king Matrix right now getting fed by tubes.

[scaredyclassic]

and contracts are tossed out all the time…

My family was once told by a tax lawyer that a certain trust absolutely, positively wouldn’t have X effect. And, several years later…it had X effect. When we went back to him, he said, “that’s not possible”. Not just some lame-ass tax lawyer. A family friend at a super-high powered wall street firm who would never have handled our piddly matter otherwise–fees wouldve been more than the amt at issue.

Ever since then, i have taken any hardline legal opinion about the outcome of any event as wrong. Maybe my skepticism is too strong, maybe the lawyer was right and the effect was absolutely unforeseeable, the result of a rule change, or god knows what….. but I prefer to hear from anyone offering an opinion, “Almost certainly” the outcome would be X, unless (and then the explanation of how it potentially goes the other way….)

the best laid plans, contracts, trust, schemes, CDOs, of mice and men oft go awry.

And I personally never ever guarantee anything, ever, no outcome, nothing. I won’t guarantee that we’re not in the f**king Matrix right now getting fed by tubes.

[scaredyclassic]

and contracts are tossed out all the time…

My family was once told by a tax lawyer that a certain trust absolutely, positively wouldn’t have X effect. And, several years later…it had X effect. When we went back to him, he said, “that’s not possible”. Not just some lame-ass tax lawyer. A family friend at a super-high powered wall street firm who would never have handled our piddly matter otherwise–fees wouldve been more than the amt at issue.

Ever since then, i have taken any hardline legal opinion about the outcome of any event as wrong. Maybe my skepticism is too strong, maybe the lawyer was right and the effect was absolutely unforeseeable, the result of a rule change, or god knows what….. but I prefer to hear from anyone offering an opinion, “Almost certainly” the outcome would be X, unless (and then the explanation of how it potentially goes the other way….)

the best laid plans, contracts, trust, schemes, CDOs, of mice and men oft go awry.

And I personally never ever guarantee anything, ever, no outcome, nothing. I won’t guarantee that we’re not in the f**king Matrix right now getting fed by tubes.

[scaredyclassic]

and contracts are tossed out all the time…

My family was once told by a tax lawyer that a certain trust absolutely, positively wouldn’t have X effect. And, several years later…it had X effect. When we went back to him, he said, “that’s not possible”. Not just some lame-ass tax lawyer. A family friend at a super-high powered wall street firm who would never have handled our piddly matter otherwise–fees wouldve been more than the amt at issue.

Ever since then, i have taken any hardline legal opinion about the outcome of any event as wrong. Maybe my skepticism is too strong, maybe the lawyer was right and the effect was absolutely unforeseeable, the result of a rule change, or god knows what….. but I prefer to hear from anyone offering an opinion, “Almost certainly” the outcome would be X, unless (and then the explanation of how it potentially goes the other way….)

the best laid plans, contracts, trust, schemes, CDOs, of mice and men oft go awry.

And I personally never ever guarantee anything, ever, no outcome, nothing. I won’t guarantee that we’re not in the f**king Matrix right now getting fed by tubes.

[scaredyclassic]

and contracts are tossed out all the time…

My family was once told by a tax lawyer that a certain trust absolutely, positively wouldn’t have X effect. And, several years later…it had X effect. When we went back to him, he said, “that’s not possible”. Not just some lame-ass tax lawyer. A family friend at a super-high powered wall street firm who would never have handled our piddly matter otherwise–fees wouldve been more than the amt at issue.

Ever since then, i have taken any hardline legal opinion about the outcome of any event as wrong. Maybe my skepticism is too strong, maybe the lawyer was right and the effect was absolutely unforeseeable, the result of a rule change, or god knows what….. but I prefer to hear from anyone offering an opinion, “Almost certainly” the outcome would be X, unless (and then the explanation of how it potentially goes the other way….)

the best laid plans, contracts, trust, schemes, CDOs, of mice and men oft go awry.

And I personally never ever guarantee anything, ever, no outcome, nothing. I won’t guarantee that we’re not in the f**king Matrix right now getting fed by tubes.

[briansd1]

[quote=scaredycat]and contracts are tossed out all the time…
[/quote]

I agree. When you go to court, there’s no guarantee.

Despite the language of the contracts or the definition of the assets, money is money. The court can let you keep the money or force you to return it.

[briansd1]

[quote=scaredycat]and contracts are tossed out all the time…
[/quote]

I agree. When you go to court, there’s no guarantee.

Despite the language of the contracts or the definition of the assets, money is money. The court can let you keep the money or force you to return it.

[briansd1]

[quote=scaredycat]and contracts are tossed out all the time…
[/quote]

I agree. When you go to court, there’s no guarantee.

Despite the language of the contracts or the definition of the assets, money is money. The court can let you keep the money or force you to return it.

[briansd1]

[quote=scaredycat]and contracts are tossed out all the time…
[/quote]

I agree. When you go to court, there’s no guarantee.

Despite the language of the contracts or the definition of the assets, money is money. The court can let you keep the money or force you to return it.

[briansd1]

[quote=scaredycat]and contracts are tossed out all the time…
[/quote]

I agree. When you go to court, there’s no guarantee.

Despite the language of the contracts or the definition of the assets, money is money. The court can let you keep the money or force you to return it.

[scaredyclassic]

their contract is probably drafted nicely. but if they’re so smart, why are they talking like such a bunch of doofuses in the press?

on a much smaller but perhaps related scale, I remember some debt collector/lawyer trying to collect some money off me in a personal contract dispute/lawsuit. He kept saying, over and over, “You made a promise! You made a promise!”. Some old jackass voice, like, have you been doing this crap for 50 years, did this b.s. line work in the 70’s? what was his point?

Finally, I got sick of talking to him, and I unleashed a torrent of profanity, edited here, but the sense was, we both made promises, we disagree on what the purpose of the promises were and how they would be carried out, your continual whining that “I made a Promise is irritating me” and a judge may very well disagree about the nature of our promises.

He became very very very angry, said he was 100% certain I would lose and get stuck with his large attorney fees. 100% certain. I told him (profanity deleted) he was a moron, perhaps even worse than amoron, because he had a brain but declined to use it, and d he might win or he might lose, but it wasn’t 100%, more like 50-50.

he was wrong. The case went to court, briefing, etc., case settled for less than 33 cents on the dollar of what they were originally suing for–because he suddenly understood several years into it that it wasn’t a sure thing for him. Far from it. I was probably being generous. he was probably going to lose.

Never be 100% positive about anything….

[scaredyclassic]

their contract is probably drafted nicely. but if they’re so smart, why are they talking like such a bunch of doofuses in the press?

on a much smaller but perhaps related scale, I remember some debt collector/lawyer trying to collect some money off me in a personal contract dispute/lawsuit. He kept saying, over and over, “You made a promise! You made a promise!”. Some old jackass voice, like, have you been doing this crap for 50 years, did this b.s. line work in the 70’s? what was his point?

Finally, I got sick of talking to him, and I unleashed a torrent of profanity, edited here, but the sense was, we both made promises, we disagree on what the purpose of the promises were and how they would be carried out, your continual whining that “I made a Promise is irritating me” and a judge may very well disagree about the nature of our promises.

He became very very very angry, said he was 100% certain I would lose and get stuck with his large attorney fees. 100% certain. I told him (profanity deleted) he was a moron, perhaps even worse than amoron, because he had a brain but declined to use it, and d he might win or he might lose, but it wasn’t 100%, more like 50-50.

he was wrong. The case went to court, briefing, etc., case settled for less than 33 cents on the dollar of what they were originally suing for–because he suddenly understood several years into it that it wasn’t a sure thing for him. Far from it. I was probably being generous. he was probably going to lose.

Never be 100% positive about anything….

[scaredyclassic]

their contract is probably drafted nicely. but if they’re so smart, why are they talking like such a bunch of doofuses in the press?

on a much smaller but perhaps related scale, I remember some debt collector/lawyer trying to collect some money off me in a personal contract dispute/lawsuit. He kept saying, over and over, “You made a promise! You made a promise!”. Some old jackass voice, like, have you been doing this crap for 50 years, did this b.s. line work in the 70’s? what was his point?

Finally, I got sick of talking to him, and I unleashed a torrent of profanity, edited here, but the sense was, we both made promises, we disagree on what the purpose of the promises were and how they would be carried out, your continual whining that “I made a Promise is irritating me” and a judge may very well disagree about the nature of our promises.

He became very very very angry, said he was 100% certain I would lose and get stuck with his large attorney fees. 100% certain. I told him (profanity deleted) he was a moron, perhaps even worse than amoron, because he had a brain but declined to use it, and d he might win or he might lose, but it wasn’t 100%, more like 50-50.

he was wrong. The case went to court, briefing, etc., case settled for less than 33 cents on the dollar of what they were originally suing for–because he suddenly understood several years into it that it wasn’t a sure thing for him. Far from it. I was probably being generous. he was probably going to lose.

Never be 100% positive about anything….

[scaredyclassic]

their contract is probably drafted nicely. but if they’re so smart, why are they talking like such a bunch of doofuses in the press?

on a much smaller but perhaps related scale, I remember some debt collector/lawyer trying to collect some money off me in a personal contract dispute/lawsuit. He kept saying, over and over, “You made a promise! You made a promise!”. Some old jackass voice, like, have you been doing this crap for 50 years, did this b.s. line work in the 70’s? what was his point?

Finally, I got sick of talking to him, and I unleashed a torrent of profanity, edited here, but the sense was, we both made promises, we disagree on what the purpose of the promises were and how they would be carried out, your continual whining that “I made a Promise is irritating me” and a judge may very well disagree about the nature of our promises.

He became very very very angry, said he was 100% certain I would lose and get stuck with his large attorney fees. 100% certain. I told him (profanity deleted) he was a moron, perhaps even worse than amoron, because he had a brain but declined to use it, and d he might win or he might lose, but it wasn’t 100%, more like 50-50.

he was wrong. The case went to court, briefing, etc., case settled for less than 33 cents on the dollar of what they were originally suing for–because he suddenly understood several years into it that it wasn’t a sure thing for him. Far from it. I was probably being generous. he was probably going to lose.

Never be 100% positive about anything….

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