Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Gold Redux: What do you folks thing about this?
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May 31, 2009 at 10:34 AM #408505May 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM #407822
Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=peterb]Data and history overwhelmingly make gold real money and a store of value. I dont even care much for the stuff, but I wont go against a track record of such strength. The only time a currency has had a solid long track record is when it’s tied to gold. Fiats end-up being abused by the govts that issue them. And that’s that. It’s what humans do to eachother. Gold puts hand-cuffs on this behavior and it’s why govt seeking more power tend to go off gold standards.[/quote]
Peter: History overwhelmingly makes gold REAL MONEY and a STORE OF VALUE. That’s a very sweeping statement and yet you offer no facts in support.
The only thing history overwhelmingly shows is the folly of mankind, occasionally punctuated by humorous moments, like the rise of Napoleonic France.
History does no such thing. There have been times that silk and spices (commodities) were a better store of value than gold and there have been points in history when the Venetian equivalent of municipal bonds performed better than gold (gold as real money). I’m a history buff and can tell you, without fear of contradiction, that gold has risen and fallen throughout history as both a means of value and store of value. You look at Mesoamerican culture at the time of the Conquistadors and juxtapose how the Aztecs and Incans valued gold versus the Spaniards. It all depends on the culture, the times and the context.
Read Niall Ferguson’s “The Ascent of Money” for a more informed picture.
May 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM #408062Participant[quote=peterb]Data and history overwhelmingly make gold real money and a store of value. I dont even care much for the stuff, but I wont go against a track record of such strength. The only time a currency has had a solid long track record is when it’s tied to gold. Fiats end-up being abused by the govts that issue them. And that’s that. It’s what humans do to eachother. Gold puts hand-cuffs on this behavior and it’s why govt seeking more power tend to go off gold standards.[/quote]
Peter: History overwhelmingly makes gold REAL MONEY and a STORE OF VALUE. That’s a very sweeping statement and yet you offer no facts in support.
The only thing history overwhelmingly shows is the folly of mankind, occasionally punctuated by humorous moments, like the rise of Napoleonic France.
History does no such thing. There have been times that silk and spices (commodities) were a better store of value than gold and there have been points in history when the Venetian equivalent of municipal bonds performed better than gold (gold as real money). I’m a history buff and can tell you, without fear of contradiction, that gold has risen and fallen throughout history as both a means of value and store of value. You look at Mesoamerican culture at the time of the Conquistadors and juxtapose how the Aztecs and Incans valued gold versus the Spaniards. It all depends on the culture, the times and the context.
Read Niall Ferguson’s “The Ascent of Money” for a more informed picture.
May 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM #408305Participant[quote=peterb]Data and history overwhelmingly make gold real money and a store of value. I dont even care much for the stuff, but I wont go against a track record of such strength. The only time a currency has had a solid long track record is when it’s tied to gold. Fiats end-up being abused by the govts that issue them. And that’s that. It’s what humans do to eachother. Gold puts hand-cuffs on this behavior and it’s why govt seeking more power tend to go off gold standards.[/quote]
Peter: History overwhelmingly makes gold REAL MONEY and a STORE OF VALUE. That’s a very sweeping statement and yet you offer no facts in support.
The only thing history overwhelmingly shows is the folly of mankind, occasionally punctuated by humorous moments, like the rise of Napoleonic France.
History does no such thing. There have been times that silk and spices (commodities) were a better store of value than gold and there have been points in history when the Venetian equivalent of municipal bonds performed better than gold (gold as real money). I’m a history buff and can tell you, without fear of contradiction, that gold has risen and fallen throughout history as both a means of value and store of value. You look at Mesoamerican culture at the time of the Conquistadors and juxtapose how the Aztecs and Incans valued gold versus the Spaniards. It all depends on the culture, the times and the context.
Read Niall Ferguson’s “The Ascent of Money” for a more informed picture.
May 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM #408367Participant[quote=peterb]Data and history overwhelmingly make gold real money and a store of value. I dont even care much for the stuff, but I wont go against a track record of such strength. The only time a currency has had a solid long track record is when it’s tied to gold. Fiats end-up being abused by the govts that issue them. And that’s that. It’s what humans do to eachother. Gold puts hand-cuffs on this behavior and it’s why govt seeking more power tend to go off gold standards.[/quote]
Peter: History overwhelmingly makes gold REAL MONEY and a STORE OF VALUE. That’s a very sweeping statement and yet you offer no facts in support.
The only thing history overwhelmingly shows is the folly of mankind, occasionally punctuated by humorous moments, like the rise of Napoleonic France.
History does no such thing. There have been times that silk and spices (commodities) were a better store of value than gold and there have been points in history when the Venetian equivalent of municipal bonds performed better than gold (gold as real money). I’m a history buff and can tell you, without fear of contradiction, that gold has risen and fallen throughout history as both a means of value and store of value. You look at Mesoamerican culture at the time of the Conquistadors and juxtapose how the Aztecs and Incans valued gold versus the Spaniards. It all depends on the culture, the times and the context.
Read Niall Ferguson’s “The Ascent of Money” for a more informed picture.
May 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM #408515Participant[quote=peterb]Data and history overwhelmingly make gold real money and a store of value. I dont even care much for the stuff, but I wont go against a track record of such strength. The only time a currency has had a solid long track record is when it’s tied to gold. Fiats end-up being abused by the govts that issue them. And that’s that. It’s what humans do to eachother. Gold puts hand-cuffs on this behavior and it’s why govt seeking more power tend to go off gold standards.[/quote]
Peter: History overwhelmingly makes gold REAL MONEY and a STORE OF VALUE. That’s a very sweeping statement and yet you offer no facts in support.
The only thing history overwhelmingly shows is the folly of mankind, occasionally punctuated by humorous moments, like the rise of Napoleonic France.
History does no such thing. There have been times that silk and spices (commodities) were a better store of value than gold and there have been points in history when the Venetian equivalent of municipal bonds performed better than gold (gold as real money). I’m a history buff and can tell you, without fear of contradiction, that gold has risen and fallen throughout history as both a means of value and store of value. You look at Mesoamerican culture at the time of the Conquistadors and juxtapose how the Aztecs and Incans valued gold versus the Spaniards. It all depends on the culture, the times and the context.
Read Niall Ferguson’s “The Ascent of Money” for a more informed picture.
May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM #407829
CoronitaParticipant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Scaredy: Trust me, my worldview is anything but normal. Nope, as always, you miss my point completely. It might be my mentally deficient inability to properly make a point, or maybe my being idiotic. Who knows?
As I pointed out in a rebuttal to you in an earlier post: Gold unfortunately has not always been a RELIABLE store of/measure of value. Rather, it has also fluctuated wildly in value and based on the customs, mores and politics of a given time and culture. You also miss the larger point of an ounce of gold buying a suit in Shakespeare’s time and Jefferson’s time: Gold’s value was NOT inherent, it was SET. Which is not to say that gold is worthless, but it completely defeats your argument of, “Hey, if I have a bunch of gold coins and the dollar collapses, I can buy Spam!”. Not how it works by a long shot.
And, don’t render opinions about things of which you know nothing. Figure out what my worldview is before making specious and unfounded pronouncements about it.
“It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt”.[/quote]
Allan,
Can you elaborate on your viewpoint? I know there are plenty of reasons why folks think gold is “safe” but I’m just curious what the contrarian viewpoints are.
From my perspective, potentially purchasing gold coins partly is an investment and partly a hobby (because they look cool), so I doubt I’ll be taking any significant position in it. But I would like you to expand your viewpoint for laymen like me because my curiousity on what they are.
One additional question I have is how does the gold compare to other world currencies? I don’t know, part of me can’t help think that the Euro will eventually disintegrate. I know it’s a wild idea, but I think in some parts of the EU, it’s much worse than here.
Edit: Never mind. You just did at 10:52am…Let me digest what you said.
May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM #408067CoronitaParticipant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Scaredy: Trust me, my worldview is anything but normal. Nope, as always, you miss my point completely. It might be my mentally deficient inability to properly make a point, or maybe my being idiotic. Who knows?
As I pointed out in a rebuttal to you in an earlier post: Gold unfortunately has not always been a RELIABLE store of/measure of value. Rather, it has also fluctuated wildly in value and based on the customs, mores and politics of a given time and culture. You also miss the larger point of an ounce of gold buying a suit in Shakespeare’s time and Jefferson’s time: Gold’s value was NOT inherent, it was SET. Which is not to say that gold is worthless, but it completely defeats your argument of, “Hey, if I have a bunch of gold coins and the dollar collapses, I can buy Spam!”. Not how it works by a long shot.
And, don’t render opinions about things of which you know nothing. Figure out what my worldview is before making specious and unfounded pronouncements about it.
“It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt”.[/quote]
Allan,
Can you elaborate on your viewpoint? I know there are plenty of reasons why folks think gold is “safe” but I’m just curious what the contrarian viewpoints are.
From my perspective, potentially purchasing gold coins partly is an investment and partly a hobby (because they look cool), so I doubt I’ll be taking any significant position in it. But I would like you to expand your viewpoint for laymen like me because my curiousity on what they are.
One additional question I have is how does the gold compare to other world currencies? I don’t know, part of me can’t help think that the Euro will eventually disintegrate. I know it’s a wild idea, but I think in some parts of the EU, it’s much worse than here.
Edit: Never mind. You just did at 10:52am…Let me digest what you said.
May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM #408311CoronitaParticipant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Scaredy: Trust me, my worldview is anything but normal. Nope, as always, you miss my point completely. It might be my mentally deficient inability to properly make a point, or maybe my being idiotic. Who knows?
As I pointed out in a rebuttal to you in an earlier post: Gold unfortunately has not always been a RELIABLE store of/measure of value. Rather, it has also fluctuated wildly in value and based on the customs, mores and politics of a given time and culture. You also miss the larger point of an ounce of gold buying a suit in Shakespeare’s time and Jefferson’s time: Gold’s value was NOT inherent, it was SET. Which is not to say that gold is worthless, but it completely defeats your argument of, “Hey, if I have a bunch of gold coins and the dollar collapses, I can buy Spam!”. Not how it works by a long shot.
And, don’t render opinions about things of which you know nothing. Figure out what my worldview is before making specious and unfounded pronouncements about it.
“It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt”.[/quote]
Allan,
Can you elaborate on your viewpoint? I know there are plenty of reasons why folks think gold is “safe” but I’m just curious what the contrarian viewpoints are.
From my perspective, potentially purchasing gold coins partly is an investment and partly a hobby (because they look cool), so I doubt I’ll be taking any significant position in it. But I would like you to expand your viewpoint for laymen like me because my curiousity on what they are.
One additional question I have is how does the gold compare to other world currencies? I don’t know, part of me can’t help think that the Euro will eventually disintegrate. I know it’s a wild idea, but I think in some parts of the EU, it’s much worse than here.
Edit: Never mind. You just did at 10:52am…Let me digest what you said.
May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM #408374CoronitaParticipant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Scaredy: Trust me, my worldview is anything but normal. Nope, as always, you miss my point completely. It might be my mentally deficient inability to properly make a point, or maybe my being idiotic. Who knows?
As I pointed out in a rebuttal to you in an earlier post: Gold unfortunately has not always been a RELIABLE store of/measure of value. Rather, it has also fluctuated wildly in value and based on the customs, mores and politics of a given time and culture. You also miss the larger point of an ounce of gold buying a suit in Shakespeare’s time and Jefferson’s time: Gold’s value was NOT inherent, it was SET. Which is not to say that gold is worthless, but it completely defeats your argument of, “Hey, if I have a bunch of gold coins and the dollar collapses, I can buy Spam!”. Not how it works by a long shot.
And, don’t render opinions about things of which you know nothing. Figure out what my worldview is before making specious and unfounded pronouncements about it.
“It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt”.[/quote]
Allan,
Can you elaborate on your viewpoint? I know there are plenty of reasons why folks think gold is “safe” but I’m just curious what the contrarian viewpoints are.
From my perspective, potentially purchasing gold coins partly is an investment and partly a hobby (because they look cool), so I doubt I’ll be taking any significant position in it. But I would like you to expand your viewpoint for laymen like me because my curiousity on what they are.
One additional question I have is how does the gold compare to other world currencies? I don’t know, part of me can’t help think that the Euro will eventually disintegrate. I know it’s a wild idea, but I think in some parts of the EU, it’s much worse than here.
Edit: Never mind. You just did at 10:52am…Let me digest what you said.
May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM #408522CoronitaParticipant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Scaredy: Trust me, my worldview is anything but normal. Nope, as always, you miss my point completely. It might be my mentally deficient inability to properly make a point, or maybe my being idiotic. Who knows?
As I pointed out in a rebuttal to you in an earlier post: Gold unfortunately has not always been a RELIABLE store of/measure of value. Rather, it has also fluctuated wildly in value and based on the customs, mores and politics of a given time and culture. You also miss the larger point of an ounce of gold buying a suit in Shakespeare’s time and Jefferson’s time: Gold’s value was NOT inherent, it was SET. Which is not to say that gold is worthless, but it completely defeats your argument of, “Hey, if I have a bunch of gold coins and the dollar collapses, I can buy Spam!”. Not how it works by a long shot.
And, don’t render opinions about things of which you know nothing. Figure out what my worldview is before making specious and unfounded pronouncements about it.
“It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt”.[/quote]
Allan,
Can you elaborate on your viewpoint? I know there are plenty of reasons why folks think gold is “safe” but I’m just curious what the contrarian viewpoints are.
From my perspective, potentially purchasing gold coins partly is an investment and partly a hobby (because they look cool), so I doubt I’ll be taking any significant position in it. But I would like you to expand your viewpoint for laymen like me because my curiousity on what they are.
One additional question I have is how does the gold compare to other world currencies? I don’t know, part of me can’t help think that the Euro will eventually disintegrate. I know it’s a wild idea, but I think in some parts of the EU, it’s much worse than here.
Edit: Never mind. You just did at 10:52am…Let me digest what you said.
May 31, 2009 at 11:26 AM #407844peterb
ParticipantVenetian Bonds and silk, yeah that’s got staying power.
May 31, 2009 at 11:26 AM #408082ParticipantVenetian Bonds and silk, yeah that’s got staying power.
May 31, 2009 at 11:26 AM #408326ParticipantVenetian Bonds and silk, yeah that’s got staying power.
May 31, 2009 at 11:26 AM #408389ParticipantVenetian Bonds and silk, yeah that’s got staying power.
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