going broke on 300K/year

[davelj]

[quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of the stuff in your post. Basically, yes, people are different and want different things.

However, I quoted the above passage because frankly, as a woman, you simply can’t say with any certainty at all that you’ve “met quite a few [men who are desirable and faithful to their wives].” These men don’t discuss these things with other women – they discuss them with other men. I know a LOT of men who have wives (and the friends of their wives) who THINK they are faithful to them, but they aren’t. Men who cheat (or want to) don’t discuss these things with other women (well, except for the women they’re cheating with); they discuss them with other men. Just about every man who reads this post knows exactly what I’m talking about.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of the stuff in your post. Basically, yes, people are different and want different things.

However, I quoted the above passage because frankly, as a woman, you simply can’t say with any certainty at all that you’ve “met quite a few [men who are desirable and faithful to their wives].” These men don’t discuss these things with other women – they discuss them with other men. I know a LOT of men who have wives (and the friends of their wives) who THINK they are faithful to them, but they aren’t. Men who cheat (or want to) don’t discuss these things with other women (well, except for the women they’re cheating with); they discuss them with other men. Just about every man who reads this post knows exactly what I’m talking about.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of the stuff in your post. Basically, yes, people are different and want different things.

However, I quoted the above passage because frankly, as a woman, you simply can’t say with any certainty at all that you’ve “met quite a few [men who are desirable and faithful to their wives].” These men don’t discuss these things with other women – they discuss them with other men. I know a LOT of men who have wives (and the friends of their wives) who THINK they are faithful to them, but they aren’t. Men who cheat (or want to) don’t discuss these things with other women (well, except for the women they’re cheating with); they discuss them with other men. Just about every man who reads this post knows exactly what I’m talking about.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of the stuff in your post. Basically, yes, people are different and want different things.

However, I quoted the above passage because frankly, as a woman, you simply can’t say with any certainty at all that you’ve “met quite a few [men who are desirable and faithful to their wives].” These men don’t discuss these things with other women – they discuss them with other men. I know a LOT of men who have wives (and the friends of their wives) who THINK they are faithful to them, but they aren’t. Men who cheat (or want to) don’t discuss these things with other women (well, except for the women they’re cheating with); they discuss them with other men. Just about every man who reads this post knows exactly what I’m talking about.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of the stuff in your post. Basically, yes, people are different and want different things.

However, I quoted the above passage because frankly, as a woman, you simply can’t say with any certainty at all that you’ve “met quite a few [men who are desirable and faithful to their wives].” These men don’t discuss these things with other women – they discuss them with other men. I know a LOT of men who have wives (and the friends of their wives) who THINK they are faithful to them, but they aren’t. Men who cheat (or want to) don’t discuss these things with other women (well, except for the women they’re cheating with); they discuss them with other men. Just about every man who reads this post knows exactly what I’m talking about.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[CA renter]

Dave,

I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who did not know the wives, but knew the men very, very well. This, from a long, long time ago.

Just to make things clear, I would never cheat with a married man, and never have. Just saying that most women have had experiences with cheaters, and other experiences with those who do not cheat — especially when we gals were in our much younger (and much hotter!) years. 😉 Contrary to what you might believe, many of us do know the difference between a cheater and a faithful spouse.

[CA renter]

Dave,

I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who did not know the wives, but knew the men very, very well. This, from a long, long time ago.

Just to make things clear, I would never cheat with a married man, and never have. Just saying that most women have had experiences with cheaters, and other experiences with those who do not cheat — especially when we gals were in our much younger (and much hotter!) years. 😉 Contrary to what you might believe, many of us do know the difference between a cheater and a faithful spouse.

[CA renter]

Dave,

I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who did not know the wives, but knew the men very, very well. This, from a long, long time ago.

Just to make things clear, I would never cheat with a married man, and never have. Just saying that most women have had experiences with cheaters, and other experiences with those who do not cheat — especially when we gals were in our much younger (and much hotter!) years. 😉 Contrary to what you might believe, many of us do know the difference between a cheater and a faithful spouse.

[CA renter]

Dave,

I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who did not know the wives, but knew the men very, very well. This, from a long, long time ago.

Just to make things clear, I would never cheat with a married man, and never have. Just saying that most women have had experiences with cheaters, and other experiences with those who do not cheat — especially when we gals were in our much younger (and much hotter!) years. 😉 Contrary to what you might believe, many of us do know the difference between a cheater and a faithful spouse.

[Author]

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