Fantastic article explaining what’s REALLY happening:

[CA renter]

“Welcome to a new era of polarization as financial oligarchy replaces democratic government and reduces populations to debt peonage”

“Europe’s Deadly Transition From Social Democracy to Oligarchy”

by MICHAEL HUDSON

“The easiest way to understand Europe’s financial crisis is to look at the solutions being proposed to resolve it. They are a banker’s dream, a grab bag of giveaways that few voters would be likely to approve in a democratic referendum. Bank strategists learned not to risk submitting their plans to democratic vote after Icelanders twice refused in 2010-11 to approve their government’s capitulation to pay Britain and the Netherlands for losses run up by badly regulated Icelandic banks operating abroad. Lacking such a referendum, mass demonstrations were the only way for Greek voters to register their opposition to the €50 billion in privatization sell-offs demanded by the European Central Bank (ECB) in autumn 2011.

The problem is that Greece lacks the ready money to redeem its debts and pay the interest charges. The ECB is demanding that it sell off public assets – land, water and sewer systems, ports and other assets in the public domain, and also cut back pensions and other payments to its population. The bottom 99% understandably are angry to be informed that the wealthiest layer of the population is largely responsible for the budget shortfall by stashing away a reported €45 billion of funds stashed away in Swiss banks alone. The idea of normal wage-earners being obliged to forfeit their pensions to pay for tax evaders – and for the general un-taxing of wealth since the regime of the colonels – makes most people understandably angry. For the ECB, EU and IMF “troika” to say that whatever the wealthy take, steal or evade paying must be made up by the population at large is not a politically neutral position. It comes down hard on the side of wealth that has been unfairly taken.

A democratic tax policy would reinstate progressive taxation on income and property, and would enforce its collection – with penalties for evasion. Ever since the 19th century, democratic reformers have sought to free economies from waste, corruption and “unearned income.” But the ECB troika is imposing a regressive tax – one that can be imposed only by turning government policy-making over to a set of unelected technocrats.”

“This is the treadmill on which Eurozone social democracies are now being placed. Under the political umbrella of financial emergency, wages and living standards are to be scaled back and political power shifted from elected government to technocrats governing on behalf of large banks and financial institutions. Public-sector labor is to be privatized – and de-unionized, while Social Security, pension plans and health insurance are scaled back.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/09/europe%E2%80%99s-deadly-transition-from-social-democracy-to-oligarchy/
———————-

Fantastic article explaining what’s going on over there…and over here. THIS is what’s behind the “anti-public worker” propaganda. Know WHO is behind the message, and WHY.

[scaredyclassic]

on the bright side, this would give us an opportunity to engage in another series of wars to brng democracy to Europe.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=walterwhite]on the bright side, this would give us an opportunity to engage in another series of wars to brng democracy to Europe.[/quote]

You can count on scaredy to “always look on the bright side of lfe”

[paramount]

It’s not anti-public worker propaganda; it’s essentially the same reason why the 99% in Greece are not happy paying for the greed of the 1%.

It’s a Great Injustice and particularly so in California where fat cat public workers are compensated as if there’s a labor shortage.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter]… one that can be imposed only by turning government policy-making over to a set of unelected technocrats.[/quote]

Aren’t these technocrats public workers ?

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]The bottom 99% understandably are angry to be informed that the wealthiest layer of the population […][/quote]

The statement above is based upon a false premise.

There is no 99% / 1% wealth split in Europe.

There is no “wealthy layer” because every country in Europe is socialist.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter]… one that can be imposed only by turning government policy-making over to a set of unelected technocrats.[/quote]

Aren’t these technocrats public workers ?[/quote]

No, not at all. The people who are trying to dismantle the unions are totally private entities who are trying to privatize public resources/assets, cash flows.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter]… one that can be imposed only by turning government policy-making over to a set of unelected technocrats.[/quote]

Aren’t these technocrats public workers ?[/quote]

No, not at all. The people who are trying to dismantle the unions are totally private entities who are trying to privatize public resources/assets, cash flows.[/quote]

Unions are also totally private entities.

They are also trying to privatize public resources/assets, cash flows.

[CA renter]

One could argue that they have some control over cash flows (still, they are far more accountable to the public than private companies are, no matter what Pri and others try to assert), but they are not trying to privatize, own, or control assets and resources.

[sdduuuude]

When the banks get the money, the unions are pissed. When the unions get the money, the banks are pissed.

Right now, in Greece, the banks are winning.

In the US, both are doing quite well.

In either case the taxpayers are pissed.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]still, they [unions] are far more accountable to the public than private companies are, no matter what Pri and others try to assert [I have no actual argument to make here or facts to back this up. I want it to be true so I declare it so with absolute confidence.][/quote]

Now some actual facts:

FACT: Unions only answer to their membership. There are some very limited disclosure laws, but the public has no control over who unions choose as their leaders or how unions spends their money. Every major union spends substantial amounts of money on political lobbying.

About half of the top 50 spenders on political lobbies are labor unions; unions dominate the top 20 on this list, (11 of 20 unions, only 3 of 20 corporations):

Top All-Time [political] Donors, 1989-2012
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

In many states, unions can FORCE anyone who works in an industry to pay union dues, regardless of whether they choose to be a union member.

Not exactly “accountable to the public.”

FACT: The “unelected technocrats” that the article you cited is a reference to the ECB “troika” which consists of the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund, and the European Central Bank.

These organizations are all PUBLIC international organizations – they are NOT privately owned (the ECB techically has shareholders but their activities are very tightly regulated). Funding for these organizations is from public funds of the member countries. In effect, everyone of the “technocrats” that works there is an employee of a government or an intra-government body such as the UN. (And btw, the former managing director of the IMF is none other than Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the pervert and soclailst.)

So the answer to the question, “Aren’t these technocrats public workers?” is an unqualified YES.

The only thing “Fantastic” about the article is that it argues that the problems Europe is facing should be solved by the same process that created the problems in the fist place instead of by a more objective and realistic committee managed by government organizations.

(But it’s not at all fantastic that your arguments are so hopelessly based on fantasy. That occurrence has become entirely routine.)

Tocqueville (another European!) is particularly apropos here:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.

So please spare us the self-contradictory descriptions of the bogeyman.

The facts are simple: Europe is broke, just like California pension funds. The obvious and ethical solution is to simply stop promising everyone so much money.

[SD Realtor]

My man crush just got deeper…

I better watch out… soon you will have me voting for Obama…

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]still, they [unions] are far more accountable to the public than private companies are, no matter what Pri and others try to assert [I have no actual argument to make here or facts to back this up. I want it to be true so I declare it so with absolute confidence.][/quote]

Now some actual facts:

FACT: Unions only answer to their membership. There are some very limited disclosure laws, but the public has no control over who unions choose as their leaders or how unions spends their money. Every major union spends substantial amounts of money on political lobbying.

About half of the top 50 spenders on political lobbies are labor unions; unions dominate the top 20 on this list, (11 of 20 unions, only 3 of 20 corporations):

Top All-Time [political] Donors, 1989-2012
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

In many states, unions can FORCE anyone who works in an industry to pay union dues, regardless of whether they choose to be a union member.

Not exactly “accountable to the public.”

FACT: The “unelected technocrats” that the article you cited is a reference to the ECB “troika” which consists of the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund, and the European Central Bank.

These organizations are all PUBLIC international organizations – they are NOT privately owned (the ECB techically has shareholders but their activities are very tightly regulated). Funding for these organizations is from public funds of the member countries. In effect, everyone of the “technocrats” that works there is an employee of a government or an intra-government body such as the UN. (And btw, the former managing director of the IMF is none other than Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the pervert and soclailst.)

So the answer to the question, “Aren’t these technocrats public workers?” is an unqualified YES.

The only thing “Fantastic” about the article is that it argues that the problems Europe is facing should be solved by the same process that created the problems in the fist place instead of by a more objective and realistic committee managed by government organizations.

(But it’s not at all fantastic that your arguments are so hopelessly based on fantasy. That occurrence has become entirely routine.)

Tocqueville (another European!) is particularly apropos here:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.

So please spare us the self-contradictory descriptions of the bogeyman.

The facts are simple: Europe is broke, just like California pension funds. The obvious and ethical solution is to simply stop promising everyone so much money.[/quote]

They entities who are trying to privatize everything are NOT public entities, though they use “unelected technocrats” to do their bidding. The entities who would be taking over public resources are NOT public entities. What part of that do you not grasp?

The same thing that’s going on over there is happening here, too.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]still, they [unions] are far more accountable to the public than private companies are, no matter what Pri and others try to assert [I have no actual argument to make here or facts to back this up. I want it to be true so I declare it so with absolute confidence.][/quote]

Now some actual facts:

FACT: Unions only answer to their membership. There are some very limited disclosure laws, but the public has no control over who unions choose as their leaders or how unions spends their money. Every major union spends substantial amounts of money on political lobbying.

About half of the top 50 spenders on political lobbies are labor unions; unions dominate the top 20 on this list, (11 of 20 unions, only 3 of 20 corporations):

Top All-Time [political] Donors, 1989-2012
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

In many states, unions can FORCE anyone who works in an industry to pay union dues, regardless of whether they choose to be a union member.

Not exactly “accountable to the public.”

FACT: The “unelected technocrats” that the article you cited is a reference to the ECB “troika” which consists of the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund, and the European Central Bank.

These organizations are all PUBLIC international organizations – they are NOT privately owned (the ECB techically has shareholders but their activities are very tightly regulated). Funding for these organizations is from public funds of the member countries. In effect, everyone of the “technocrats” that works there is an employee of a government or an intra-government body such as the UN. (And btw, the former managing director of the IMF is none other than Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the pervert and soclailst.)

So the answer to the question, “Aren’t these technocrats public workers?” is an unqualified YES.

The only thing “Fantastic” about the article is that it argues that the problems Europe is facing should be solved by the same process that created the problems in the fist place instead of by a more objective and realistic committee managed by government organizations.

(But it’s not at all fantastic that your arguments are so hopelessly based on fantasy. That occurrence has become entirely routine.)

Tocqueville (another European!) is particularly apropos here:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.

So please spare us the self-contradictory descriptions of the bogeyman.

The facts are simple: Europe is broke, just like California pension funds. The obvious and ethical solution is to simply stop promising everyone so much money.[/quote]

There you go again…editing someone else’s post to twist what was said into something totally unrelated. Public workers are absolutely more accountable to the public than private entities are.

There is nobody on this blog who spouts more nonsensical fiction and declares it as “fact” than you, Pri. Whenever we debate, I’m the ONLY one who brings facts and logic to the table. You have consistently brought your Fox propaganda to the debate and declared it as “fact.” Of course, you consistently “edit” other people’s posts and declare others “ignorant” when they clearly know more than you do about the subject under discussion. Apparently, you think this makes you look clever.

Glad to know you oppose democracy. I supposed you’ll only be happy when capitalists/bankers own everything while workers slave away at their $5.00/week jobs to pay their masters. I suppose you’d prefer a dictatorship then. Thank you for clearing that up for us.

No mention of the capitalists/financial industry that have pillaged far more of our “public treasury.” Let’s stop promising them so much money and resources, if you care so much about taxpayers. No, according to you, it’s the productive workers who are the leaches. You’re simply brilliant, Pri (sarcasm, in case you missed it).

[CA renter]

“Public pension reform, not public-worker bashing
We’ll never achieve an equitable and effective fix to the very real problem of unsustainable public pension obligations until we dispel the miasma of non-facts enveloping this highly fraught topic.”

“Finding a path through these brambles isn’t made easier by today’s craze for public-worker bashing, which is partially an artifact of the outrageous trend toward more income inequality in California and the U.S. alike. According to Franchise Tax Board figures, more than 70% of the $300-billion increase in total adjusted gross income of California taxpayers between 1987 and 2008 went to the wealthiest 10% of Californians. The middle 20%, our valiant middle class? They got 3%.

This is connected to such phenomena as the decline of collective bargaining in the private sector, increased job insecurity and the explosion of household debt. Government workers are seen by the average strapped taxpayer as insulated from these pressures (public employees don’t help themselves by engaging in scams like “spiking” their final years’ pay to pump up their pensions), but the resulting resentment is the ultimate class-war victory of the haves over the have-nots. Middle-class taxpayers grouse about the retirement deals of teachers and DMV clerks, while bankers and CEOs, whose compensation and tax breaks really deserve public obloquy, slink away scot-free.“

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/15/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110515/2

[Author]

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