Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › DYSFUNCTIONAL, DISHONEST, INSANE & INTOLERABLE
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October 21, 2012 at 8:22 PM #20210October 21, 2012 at 8:56 PM #752990svelteParticipant
What?
October 21, 2012 at 10:41 PM #752994paramountParticipantsjk: This is an excellent post IMO….I’m still digesting it though.
October 21, 2012 at 10:45 PM #752995CA renterParticipantThis person clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about and has completely ignored the fact that American schools try to educate one of the most diverse populations on the planet. The students come from homes where they speak hundreds of different languages, have totally different cultural values (including how their home culture values education), and where many come from very poor families who live in crowded conditions in crime-filled neighborhoods.
The changing demographic in the U.S. is largely (almost entirely, IMHO) responsible for decline of student performance over the years. Show me another country and school system with our demographics, and let’s compare how we fare then, shall we?
October 21, 2012 at 11:21 PM #752996dumbrenterParticipant[quote=CA renter]This person clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about and has completely ignored the fact that American schools try to educate one of the most diverse populations on the planet. The students come from homes where they speak hundreds of different languages, have totally different cultural values (including how their home culture values education), and where many come from very poor families who live in crowded conditions in crime-filled neighborhoods.
The changing demographic in the U.S. is largely (almost entirely, IMHO) responsible for decline of student performance over the years. Show me another country and school system with our demographics, and let’s compare how we fare then, shall we?[/quote]
What does diversity have to do with declining student performance? Are you suggesting that folks who do not espeake ingles at home are somehow responsible for decline in student performance? Including the SAT scores that the author refers to? From what I see, such “diverse” student population gets filtered out way before college. So what does college education (referred to by the author) have to do with your assertion?
I find that suggestion very offensive. You can believe what you want, but you might want to also consider that some of these ‘diverse’ student population might actually biasing the test scores for higher education upwards and making jhonny boy look smarter than he really is.October 21, 2012 at 11:49 PM #752998CDMA ENGParticipant[quote=CA renter]This person clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about and has completely ignored the fact that American schools try to educate one of the most diverse populations on the planet. The students come from homes where they speak hundreds of different languages, have totally different cultural values (including how their home culture values education), and where many come from very poor families who live in crowded conditions in crime-filled neighborhoods.
The changing demographic in the U.S. is largely (almost entirely, IMHO) responsible for decline of student performance over the years. Show me another country and school system with our demographics, and let’s compare how we fare then, shall we?[/quote]
You mean like… Anywhere in the EU?
CE
October 22, 2012 at 3:05 AM #753001CA renterParticipant[quote=dumbrenter][quote=CA renter]This person clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about and has completely ignored the fact that American schools try to educate one of the most diverse populations on the planet. The students come from homes where they speak hundreds of different languages, have totally different cultural values (including how their home culture values education), and where many come from very poor families who live in crowded conditions in crime-filled neighborhoods.
The changing demographic in the U.S. is largely (almost entirely, IMHO) responsible for decline of student performance over the years. Show me another country and school system with our demographics, and let’s compare how we fare then, shall we?[/quote]
What does diversity have to do with declining student performance? Are you suggesting that folks who do not espeake ingles at home are somehow responsible for decline in student performance? Including the SAT scores that the author refers to? From what I see, such “diverse” student population gets filtered out way before college. So what does college education (referred to by the author) have to do with your assertion?
I find that suggestion very offensive. You can believe what you want, but you might want to also consider that some of these ‘diverse’ student population might actually biasing the test scores for higher education upwards and making jhonny boy look smarter than he really is.[/quote]You are welcome to be offended, but the numbers speak for themselves. It doesn’t do anybody any favors if we stick our heads in the sand and try to “wish it away.” It is VERY clear, and the same issues are evident in different cities, counties, and states all across the country.
Are you seriously trying to imply that our country’s demographic shifts don’t have any effects on student outcomes? We have tremendous (and growing!) income/wealth inequality, and inequality among different races and ethnic groups. The same results are seen over and over and over again, irrespective of how much money we throw at these students and schools. Don’t take my word for it, do some research on the topic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_inequality
Here’s an interesting article on how they are trying to overcome some of these problems:
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CE,
The E.U. countries that have similar issues with demographic shifts are experiencing the same problems that we are experiencing in the U.S. The problems arise when you get a lot of immigrants from developing nations who quickly overwhelm school systems that are set up for, and previously populated by, people who’ve grown up in developed nations. As the ratios shift, the educational outcomes shift with them. It’s a problem that cannot be ignored or “pretended” away.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/15/germany-middle-class-inequality-schools
http://www.springerlink.com/content/pq054211468654vx/
http://understandingsociety.blogspot.com/2009/03/inequalities-in-france.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/oct/10/britains-divided-school-system-report
October 22, 2012 at 3:18 AM #753002CA renterParticipantHere’s another interesting article about the demise of education in the U.S. It sees many of the same problems noted in paramount’s piece, but has a different take on how we got there.
How Higher Education in the US Was Destroyed in 5 Basic Steps
Higher education is not what it used to be, and that’s no accident.
http://www.alternet.org/how-higher-education-us-was-destroyed-5-basic-steps?page=0%2C0&paging=off
October 22, 2012 at 6:19 AM #753003CoronitaParticipantWell, all I have to look at is the engineering enrollment at leading universities…
Yes, we’ve dumbed down education….You can also thank “no kid left behind” programs…Because it also means “no kid gets ahead”, unless you pay time/resources to get your kid further…Socialized education…..kinda like…Socialized medicine….
October 22, 2012 at 11:17 AM #753016RenParticipantThe glaring omission of demographic data was the first thing I noticed. I don’t doubt you could track the biggest education declines to the largest populations of recent immigrants. LA is a great example.
Other than that, there is a lot of truth to it, and it’s highly entertaining reading.
October 22, 2012 at 4:49 PM #753038flyerParticipantOn the macro level, to which this article speaks, it is very clear that life’s playing field is not fair, and is growing more skewed each day.
But, because life is so short, and the core problems are so vast, IMHO, all each of us can do is everything in our individual power to help our own kids achieve success in life. On the micro level, that’s what we did, and it seems to have worked out.
October 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM #753039sjkParticipantA good read indeed………..Best to all.
October 23, 2012 at 10:26 AM #753063paulflorezParticipant[quote=dumbrenter]…folks who do not espeake ingles at home…
I find that suggestion very offensive.[/quote]
LOL, when feigning offense may I suggest you not say something offensive like “espeake ingles”?
I think the demographics is something you cannot ignore, it’s part of the equation. Parents who have had families here for generations know more about how to effectively use the system to get their child the best outcome. Immigrants know much less and so a lot of the responsibility falls onto children who can barely wipe themselves, let alone plan their own education.
IMO, the mistake is that parents are getting none of the blame. Everyone wants to blame the teachers, but the reality is that if the parents are not helping their children learn how to do their homework, exposing them to educational experiences and, most of all, showing their children a basic level of respect that a human being deserves, those children will not learn how to learn nor have the self esteem to pursue it.
Show me one lazy, unqualified teacher and I’ll show you 200 lazy and unqualified parents. THAT’S the whole problem.
October 23, 2012 at 10:45 AM #753064CoronitaParticipantWhich “immigrants” are people referring to when you mention “immigrants” are contributing to the decline of our education…
Because obviously, the non-english speaking immigrants here are pulling down the curve…
http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2012/2012GrowthSch.aspx?cYear=2005-06&allcds=37680566117923
and here
http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2012/2012GrowthSch.aspx?cYear=2005-06&allcds=37680560114686
and here
http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2012/2012GrowthSch.aspx?cYear=2005-06&allcds=37680560114686
and here
http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2012/2012GrowthSch.aspx?cYear=2005-06&allcds=37680566120596I don’t get some of you folks. On one hand, some of you argue that the decline of the education is due to immigrants because immigrants pull the curve down. On the other hand, some of you also argue that certain immigrants are making schools overly competitive to the point that you don’t like the schools being so competitive for your own kids. So which is it????? Maybe the problem is just some folks just don’t like immigrants.
October 23, 2012 at 11:01 AM #753067allParticipantThen there is this concerned parent arguing against mandatory year of chemistry for his son.
Because “his son will not be a scientist”, “He’s a really smart kid, just not in chemistry” and the dad wants to spare his son from a year long torture.
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