The cost of an Ivy League undergrad degree next year….

[Coronita]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Or the bumper sticker that says “my child is an outstanding student at some crap elementary school.”

Or Navy Mom license plate frame.[/quote]

I love the bumper stickers that say “your kid might be a genius, but you are still a moron”

[bearishgurl]

I think the CSU is now much improved from the past 20 years or so. Yes, all campuses. They have stepped up their admission standards, their classes are challenging (even GE’s), the vast majority of their instructors are good to excellent and CA companies are hiring from their business graduates (as well as those CSU graduates from engineering, hospitality and many other fields). The CSU is still relatively affordable and can be even downright economical if your kid attends campus near “home” or in a lower-cost region of the state. I don’t recall if my kid(s) actually ever competed with “ivy-leaguers” for jobs and it doesn’t really matter.

As to AN’s explanation of his “tradeoffs,” his kid(s) are still young yet. I have told mine NOT to come back to SD County in search of jobs (they’re doing fine in higher-paying counties). It’s not about visiting me often. It’s about them making something of themselves in their fields in a city/county where that is actually possible (not here). Also, I want them to make a living wage (not possible here, especially in the years immediately post-graduation). AN may change his tune when his kids leave for college in effort to eventually become financially self-sufficient. I can’t speak for them but at that point, they may not want or need to see their parents or grandparents daily or weekly.

As to flyer’s kids …. sure it would improve anyone on this board’s (retirement) “bottom line” exponentially if their kids had access to an (unlimited?) college trust fund as flyer states here that his deep-pocketed parents and/or in-laws provided for his kids. For that, he is very fortunate in that he and his spouse did not have to use any of their own funds (or very little of them) to get their multiple (3-4?) children all the way through to graduation (and post-grad work?) in expensive private colleges. Of course, he often wonders how others will fare in retirement but he himself has been given a huge leg up … a gift in this regard in the form of family help for his kids’ college educations irrespective of any pensions or retirement preparations he himself has earned/made on his own behalf over his lifetime.

There’s nothing wrong with any of this, folks. I’m just pointing out that there are many “flyers” out there whose family legacies pave the way for their goals in life as opposed to the other 97% of the population who don’t have the same advantages. For this, I’m certain flyer is very grateful.

I agree with scaredy in that “trust fund kids” have much more choice in colleges that they can apply to AND realistically expect to attend (should they be accepted) than does everyone else’s kids.

[Coronita]

That reminds me, 4 things that I was really proud of that I learned when I was at an ivy league school

1. How to steal dining room trays as a snow sled down a steep slope

2. How to buggie jump of a bridge without getting arrested

3. How to shoot a .357 properly in an ROTC sponsored class

4. Jumping out of a plane with a parachute to try to impress a blond chick from Connecticut that also wanted to go wasn’t the smartest thing to do.

[an]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Not only can you brag about it, but an elite education is simply better.

Do you send your kids to piano lessons to turn them into more accomplished human beings, or so you can brag at family gatherings? Maybe only a little bit of pride and bragging.

What about sports?

If bragging makes one a douchebag, then I know quite a few douchy parents.[/quote]I send my kids to piano so they can improve their motor skills and learn about music. I don’t brag about it.
My kid is in soccer. I let him play so he learn team work, get lots of exercise, and kindle his competitive drive. I don’t brag about that either. I could careless if he score the most goal. I just push him to do his best and that’s all that matter.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flu][quote=deadzone]Sure because the candidates from India will work for half the salary of the MIT grads (or UCSD grads for that matter).[/quote]

Actually, we gave the same compensation packages for the candidates from there as we extended to the college grads here. And furthermore, our company had to pay more to handle their visa status, that we wouldn’t have to do for a few of the college grads that weren’t already here on student visas. (most of the grads that were here, were on student visas and also didn’t have problems finding multiple offers).,

In the past, If we really were interested in saving money for those positions, we wouldn’t even bother hiring anyone here, H1-B or not… Simply because it would be much cheaper to hiring overseas and have them work out of our remote office rather than bring them here and do their H1-B application. Just saying.[/quote]

Why would your company pay extra (full competitive salary plus H1B headache) to hire a foreigner? Do you honestly believe there were not any U.S citizens willing or capable of doing this work? I find that extremely hard to believe. I know this opens the whole immigration debate topic but frankly it doesn’t pass the smell test.

[scaredyclassic]

basically it’s laid out here:

“A father’s responsibilities to his son are outlined in the Talmud, Kiddushin 29a. According to the text, a father is obligated to circumcise his son, to redeem him if he is the firstborn, to teach him Torah, to find him a wife, and to teach him a trade. Talmudic scholars added that a father must also teach his son to swim.”

Basically all i got done was all of them are strong swimmers, but especially the oldest. the rest is on them…though i’ll do whatt i can…within limits…

but all this anxiety about status and schools and money…its kind of focussing on the “teach him a trade” clause..except it’s not teaching hima trade…more emphasis needed on torah, swimming. finding a good wife…also, honoring thy father. that s just so important….dont want the poor little tyke to feelguilty later on for insufficnetly honoring me…

i feel bad for what a little shit i was…

[Anonymous]

[quote=FlyerInHi]

Not only can you brag about it, but an elite education is simply better.

[/quote]

That is something ingrained in your head. But did you actually attend both Ivy and public schools? How do you know which is better? How do you measure this? You are simply pulling this out of your ass.

Yes bragging about your kids is douchy and yes there are a lot of d-bag parents. Fact is nobody gives a shit about your kids, nor are they impressed in the least if your kids go to Ivy league school or not. Also be aware that nobody wants to hear your kids play piano either.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=bearishgurl]I think the CSU is now much improved from the past 20 years or so. Yes, all campuses. They have stepped up their admission standards, their classes are challenging (even GE’s), the vast majority of their instructors are good to excellent and CA companies are hiring from their business graduates (as well as those CSU graduates from engineering, hospitality and many other fields). The CSU is still relatively affordable and can be even downright economical if your kid attends campus near “home” or in a lower-cost region of the state. I don’t recall if my kid(s) actually ever competed with “ivy-leaguers” for jobs and it doesn’t really matter.

As to AN’s explanation of his “tradeoffs,” his kid(s) are still young yet. I have told mine NOT to come back to SD County in search of jobs (they’re doing fine in higher-paying counties). It’s not about visiting me often. It’s about them making something of themselves in their fields in a city/county where that is actually possible (not here). Also, I want them to make a living wage (not possible here, especially in the years immediately post-graduation). AN may change his tune when his kids leave for college in effort to eventually become financially self-sufficient. I can’t speak for them but at that point, they may not want or need to see their parents or grandparents daily or weekly.

As to flyer’s kids …. sure it would improve anyone on this board’s (retirement) “bottom line” exponentially if their kids had access to an (unlimited?) college trust fund as flyer states here that his deep-pocketed parents and/or in-laws provided for his kids. For that, he is very fortunate in that he and his spouse did not have to use any of their own funds (or very little of them) to get their multiple (3-4?) children all the way through to graduation (and post-grad work?) in expensive private colleges. Of course, he often wonders how others will fare in retirement but he himself has been given a huge leg up … a gift in this regard in the form of family help for his kids’ college educations irrespective of any pensions or retirement preparations he himself has earned/made on his own behalf over his lifetime.

There’s nothing wrong with any of this, folks. I’m just pointing out that there are many “flyers” out there whose family legacies pave the way for their goals in life as opposed to the other 97% of the population who don’t have the same advantages. For this, I’m certain flyer is very grateful.

I agree with scaredy in that “trust fund kids” have much more choice in colleges that they can apply to AND realistically expect to attend (should they be accepted) than does everyone else’s kids.[/quote]

i would want my kids to go wherever the best oppty was…but…i hope they continue to text me a lot. something about getting texted frequently makes you feel super connected.

[Anonymous]

Regarding my point that Ivy league is irrelevant for a tech career, I just checked the Bios of the Officers at Viasat and just like Qualcomm, not a single one attended an Ivy school at any point. Also interestingly, the CFO has a BS degree from SDSU (no masters or mba), a school that most of the “elitist” folks on this board don’t seem to hold a very high regard for.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=deadzone][quote=FlyerInHi]

Not only can you brag about it, but an elite education is simply better.

[/quote]

That is something ingrained in your head. But did you actually attend both Ivy and public schools? How do you know which is better? How do you measure this? You are simply pulling this out of your ass.

Yes bragging about your kids is douchy and yes there are a lot of d-bag parents. Fact is nobody gives a shit about your kids, nor are they impressed in the least if your kids go to Ivy league school or not. Also be aware that nobody wants to hear your kids play piano either.[/quote]

the way schools are ranked in USnews and world report, at least in law schols, is kind of insane. it has nothing to do with how good a teacher the teacher is, or their experience. professor status is based almost entirely on publications, articles on obscure topics in student run law review publications that virtually no one reads or cares about….but which are limited in space and therefore extremely competitive to get published in…

and so profs spend all theri time getting published, because there is no career upside to actually teaching anything or giving a crap about students…unless they just happen t like teaching…for fun…like a hobby..

it is pure status. the curriculum is often very similar…the competition is fiercer…but…its primarily a status game…its better because…we say its better…

[Coronita]

[quote=deadzone]

Why would your company pay extra (full competitive salary plus H1B headache) to hire a foreigner? Do you honestly believe there were not any U.S citizens willing or capable of doing this work? I find that extremely hard to believe. I know this opens the whole immigration debate topic but frankly it doesn’t pass the smell test.[/quote]

News flash: look at some of the good engineering schools that churns out good masters students? What percentage of graduates are foreign students? If you think that’s a problem (I don’t), then why don’t you try to address that thing first.

And yes, because 4 of us did the actual hiring. We were looking for someone that ideally had already worked 2-3 years and was working on finishing their masters. Someone that had had embedded knowledge and someone that had dabbled in linux kernels, either for hobbies or personal interest, and someone that actually took the initiative to dabble in the then scrappy “Android operating system”….We didn’t want anymore senior people, because there were already 6 of us, and just getting all 6 of us senior people to agree on shit was challenging enough.

Starting salary at the time was $100k I believe, which in reality you could negotiate up. We ended up hiring 2 people that year plus one intern as a backup. One kid that didn’t have an H1-B and on that did. And we didn’t care if they had H1-B or not.

Anyway, engineering will never be the best paid profession, unless you are fortunate enough to work at a company that happens to hit it pretty big with an IPO or the like OR unless you invent/do something on your own. If you are so hell belt at thinking engineering is a lousy pay/lousy position, stop being an employee. My dad tried to teach me that and constantly asked me “are you sure, are you sure”

I’ve already hit my glass ceiling as an employee since I just turned the old fart 40, have no interest in trying to actively manage people, and really don’t want to spend the time and effort to go back and try to incubate new apps on my own as an independent with friends. As long as I can continue to directly report to my current director/vp and no one gets slotted between me and them, I just want to play at this point. Can’t really blame anyone else at this point, except myself…. Wish I bought more real estate when that was easier, though.

[Coronita]

[quote=deadzone]Regarding my point that Ivy league is irrelevant for a tech career, I just checked the Bios of the Officers at Viasat and just like Qualcomm, not a single one attended an Ivy school at any point. Also interestingly, the CFO has a BS degree from SDSU (no masters or mba), a school that most of the “elitist” folks on this board don’t seem to hold a very high regard for.[/quote]

For every company you can find without any sort of ivy league or degreed people running the company, you can find plenty of them that are run from ivy league degreed people. What does that mean in terms of ivy league or non ivy league? I don’t know. Maybe San Diego isn’t the best place to be if you’re a techie, because most of the innovation happens elsewhere? Maybe San Diego is just a small town when it comes to tech, and if you’re serious about wanting to get ahead, go somewhere else first where it can open your eyes to things you haven’t seen or will see here?

I think often times I hear that techies in san diego complain that the community is so small, there aren’t many startups, aren’t many different choices in employers, it’s not competitive here for engineer comp packages,etc. And that’s probably true. You ever wonder why? I mean, locally, we probably are graduating a lot of STEM degreed kids that are equally capable. Why is the local tech market still, as some of you say, “suck”? Why, in San Diego, is your only talked about big tech company success story still Qualcomm only?

Also, follow the tech money trail. Example….
http://www.kpcb.com/teams
http://www.accel.com/#people/jake-flomenberg

Tell you what… Get in front of Accel or Klein Perkins or Sequoia or any other likewise group in the Valley, and try to pitch your ideas to them…

Here’s a list
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/242702

Talk to one of their partners about your ideas. Then you can probably get a better feel for what matters or doesn’t matter, what degree from where matters doesn’t matter, what experience matters or doesn’t matter, what is for show or doesn’t matter, and about just about every other intricate detail that matters or doesn’t matter. It might open your eyes to a completely different world, once you look beyond being an employee for a company in San Diego(which I can see your point to an extent for many “jobs” out there, that it doesn’t matter as an employee, no matter how well paid that employee is)

In my more youthful days, been there, done that, and failed miserably at it, and that’s why I’m an employee now. 🙁 Good luck to the ones that are trying everyday. Hope it works out for others. It’s cool to see people who actually make it. There are probably a lot more easier/better ways to make more money doing other things than going this sort of roundabout way trying to do tech. But for me, personally, it’s hard for me to do things that I don’t enjoy doing even it can be more financially lucrative.

My viewpoint kinda differs from people. And it’s probably hard to explain. I don’t disagree that all these for things actually help keep the status quo on the 1% and what fancy titles and details might give you a slightly edge up to those aspiring to be.. It’s just that as an individual that isn’t already there, a lot of these things have to come together for them to all work out, and some of this stuff isn’t even within your control. For me, things didn’t work the way I had hoped. And life is full of disappointments, when that effort comes crashing down, because you just realize you wasted years of your life and that it didn’t produce anything… But for others, with the right personality, luck, experience, attitude, and motivation, etc, it could be a completely different story. I guess, it boils down to how tolerant are individuals to disappointments and setbacks along the way, versus being just “content” to doing the easier, less disappointing path. For the longest time, I thought I had a pretty high tolerance of adversity, setbacks, and disappointments. It took awhile to realize that my tolerance for it is lower than a lot of people. One colleague I asked how he managed to succeed, and he laughed and said he just learned how to fail fast and kept failing fast until something finally stuck, getting drunk all along the process.

Personally, I don’t know what’s worse. Not knowing what’s out there, or knowing what’s out there and realizing it wasn’t obtainable for you. It’s like being given the keys to a Ferrari, even getting lap time in it for a few hours, and at the end of the day, being told you have to return the keys and here’s your POS miata. And no matter how much money you put into the POS miata, at the end of the day, it’s still a POS miata. Lol…That’s one of the reasons I’ve never stepped foot in an auto show so far..ever… What is the point of seeing, touching, experiencing things temporarily, that most likely you know will not be unobtainable during your lifetime? Ignorance can be bliss! It’s worked for me so far. I’ll take the blue pill please. Someone else can eat the red pill.

[scaredyclassic]

we are all in the rat race, some in the more prestigious maze.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

…its better because…we say its better…[/quote]

That applies to a lot in life. But does it matter?

Supply and demand. More demand combined with restricted supply equal higher prices. It’s worth what people are willing to pay.

I’m sure that Harvard could charge $1 million per semester and there will be applicants. If anything, the prestige factor would go up.

scaredy, I like your idea that the Ivy league should be for millionaires only. Middle-class people don’t need to go. And the poor would go free, at the discretion of the private schools.

[Anonymous]

Okay, give me one example of a Tech company that is run by Ivy grads? I just picked two of the most important San Diego companies, not cherry picking.

Reality is getting an Ivy degree does not give you a leg up in any type of tech career. Certainly not if you want to live/work in Socal which everybody here obviously does.

Also FLU, you are the only person I have ever heard that complained about Engineering not being a well paid profession. Can you name another white collar profession that you can pull nearly six figure starting salary immediately after a 4 year degree from a lowly state school? Pharmacy is the only profession that pays better starting out, but usually that is a 5 year or more degree nowadays.

But no, you are not going to get rich being an Engineer or most any other profession. Most wealthy people are trust funders. A fortunate few get lucky with IPOs, real estate etc. but I don’t consider those careers.

[Author]

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