Coronavirus Endgame

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=outtamojo]Sounds like there will be civil unrest soon.[/quote]

Yeah. The protests are starting already.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/protests-coronavirus-stay-home-orders/index.html

[phaster]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=outtamojo]Sounds like there will be civil unrest soon.[/quote]

Yeah. The protests are starting already.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/protests-coronavirus-stay-home-orders/index.html%5B/quote%5D

perhaps a “yuge” wall on the southern border to prevent the civil unrest/panic spreading north???

[quote]
Tijuana Doctors ‘Dropping Like Flies’ and Free Trade Gets Blame
April 16, 2020, 12:18 PM PDT

Mexico is major medical supply maker, yet still faces shortage

Much of nation’s output is shipped abroad under trade rules

In the border town of Tijuana, factories are working full tilt to pump out masks, protective gear and ventilator parts as global demand surges because of the coronavirus. And yet, locals say hospitals are desperately short of it all.

Mexico is the eighth-largest supplier of medical devices in the world, but much of it is shipped abroad. International trade rules, an aggressive scramble by wealthier nations to stock up and what critics call a lack of planning on Mexico’s part have drained the nation’s health system of supplies it will need to fight the pandemic.

It’s proving a deadly mix as cases start climbing in Tijuana, a medical-device making hub in Latin America.

Baja California state Governor Jaime Bonilla warned that doctors there are “dropping like flies” and threatened to shut down a ventilator-parts factory if it couldn’t find a way to bypass trade rules and supply nearby clinics. Videos on Twitter show health care workers lining up around town as they hunt for their own protective gear.

“The medical equipment producers don’t have anything for us,” said Faustino Ruvalcaba, a doctor in Tijuana who spent three decades working for the national health system known as IMSS before retiring. “All the output that occurs here isn’t for here — it’s for everywhere else.”

Asking Trump for Help

Ruvalcaba has taken it upon himself to hunt for supplies in San Diego and said he’s close to reaching a deal with a distributor for 1,000 medical-grade masks to help former colleagues. It’s not so different from what President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is doing. After repeatedly downplaying the seriousness of the disease up until late last month, Lopez Obrador personally asked Donald Trump for ventilators in a call.

…Most of the companies manufacturing medical supplies in Tijuana fall under Mexico’s maquiladora program, which means they benefit from tax breaks in exchange for assembling goods that must be exported.

Mexico has acknowledged that it continued sending supplies like face masks to China in February, only to have to buy some back at a higher cost. Government officials argue that they couldn’t stop companies from selling abroad without declaring a national emergency, which it couldn’t do because it didn’t yet have any cases. Diplomatically, not filling those orders would have hurt the nation’s ties abroad.

“The irony is a reflection of Mexico’s uneven position in the current global order,” said Carlos Bravo, a political scientist at Mexico City’s Center for Economic Research & Teaching.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-16/tijuana-doctors-dropping-like-flies-and-free-trade-gets-blame
[/quote]

[quote]
Tijuana doctors plead for help as hospitals overflow and residents refuse to social distance

http://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/tijuana-doctors-plead-for-help-as-hospitals-overflow-and-residents-refuse-to-social-distance/509-04579b58-9916-46bf-aa7a-0468d5038a86
[/quote]

[sdduuuude]

[quote=phaster]upon reading (what caught my eye) what came to mind was an editorial cartoon

[/quote]

The depression doesn’t come from what they have to do, it comes from what was taken from them – the collective graduation that they have been working for and looking forward to their whole lives. In a sense, it is their life. I think this cartoon doesn’t apply to those HS seniors at all. Maybe to young adults who complaining about how awful their situation is, but not to a depressed HS Senior. That is not fair by any means.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=phaster]upon reading (what caught my eye) what came to mind was an editorial cartoon

[/quote]

The depression doesn’t come from what they have to do, it comes from what was taken from them – the collective graduation that they have been working for and looking forward to their whole lives. In a sense, it is their life. I think this cartoon doesn’t apply to those HS seniors at all. Maybe to young adults who complaining about how awful their situation is, but not to a depressed HS Senior. That is not fair by any means. [/quote]

P.S. Two teen suicides this weekend in San Diego county. They weren’t reported but we got emails that two teens died but details were being being withheld to protect the families. That usually means suicide. For teens in San Diego, the death rate from the cure is higher than the death rate from the virus.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=outtamojo]Sounds like there will be civil unrest soon.[/quote]

Yeah. The protests are starting already.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/protests-coronavirus-stay-home-orders/index.html%5B/quote%5D

Bottom line here is that the whole country is putting themselves out to protect the elderly. I’m not judging good or bad, just pointing out a fact.

Stay-at-home and no human contact is not a sustainable solution for humans, especially in the US where people expect the Bill of Rights protects us from extreme government control.

People are eventually gonna decide that sacrificing their livelihood for 1% of the population is not something they are willing to do. They are also going to start questioning if going to massive outdoor park or walking trail where they may pass within 5 feet of someone once every 10 minutes is actually a problem and why people sitting with their friends on the beach are getting ticketed. And, for sure – the extroverts of the world are going to go mad and become depressed if they can’t hug their friends on a daily basis.

A more sustainable solution is necessary and the politicians who think they are in control of everything are going to find out they aren’t. They need to learn the difference between “perfect” and “optimal.”

[outtamojo]

I agree it is a huge sacrifice and we have to try to get back to normal soon. I hope that Gilead drug continues to do well in trials. If we can at least treat the bad cases with some efficacy I see no reason to continue any kind of shutdown.
I wonder how businesses have looked without a formal shutdown? Would shopping malls be staffed but deserted? Restaurants? Casinos? I sure as heck would not get on a cruise ship. Maybe we didn’t actually lose that much by telling people to stay home vs not telling them.

ER volume where I work is roughly 30% of normal. There are no orders telling people they cant go to the ER. Are people suddenly healthier or are they staying away for their own reasons? Shutdown or no shutdown the virus was going to have its effect.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=outtamojo]I agree it is a huge sacrifice and we have to try to get back to normal soon. I hope that Gilead drug continues to do well in trials. If we can at least treat the bad cases with some efficacy I see no reason to continue any kind of shutdown.
I wonder how businesses have looked without a formal shutdown? Would shopping malls be staffed but deserted? Restaurants? Casinos? I sure as heck would not get on a cruise ship. Maybe we didn’t actually lose that much by telling people to stay home vs not telling them.

ER volume where I work is roughly 30% of normal. There are no orders telling people they cant go to the ER. Are people suddenly healthier or are they staying away for their own reasons? Shutdown or no shutdown the virus was going to have its effect.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting that, to this point, we have over-reacted. Just saying it isn’t a sustainable situation, socially, economically, psychologically.

Schools. I just think we need to get the kids to school. Hearing nightmares from medical workers that have to deal w/ young school-aged kids. Nobody wants to babysit for them, working long hours, 1st grader supposed to figure out how to join a zoom class. It is a “cure worse than the disease” situation I think.

[sdduuuude]

Don’t even have to get back to “normal.”
Just to “sustainable”

[spdrun]

We’re not protecting only the elderly and the sick … we’re protecting anyone who needs hospital care for other things from overwhelmed hospitals. This thing spreads extremely quickly, and one case diagnosed now likely means 50 diagnosed two weeks later without social distancing measures!

The goal needs to be to prevent uncontrolled spread until we reach herd immunity or a vaccine is found. Of course, this point may come faster or slower in different cities — I suspect that the majority of NYC has already been exposed!

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=sdduuuude]A more sustainable solution is necessary and the politicians who think they are in control of everything are going to find out they aren’t. They need to learn the difference between “perfect” and “optimal.”[/quote]

I have been saying that about terrorism, health care, etc.

Honestly, our culture is fucked up so we get the politicians we deserve.
In arguing over “perfect” we have a shit health care system that is so obvious now. Taiwan’s system is so much better for aggregate health. Meanwhile, we can chest thump that we have the best technology and the best drugs.

[The-Shoveler]

Testing “everyone all the time” is never going to happen (we would still be here 2 years from now) IMO.

At some point we open the country with some reasonable guide lines or we are done as a country.

[spdrun]

^^^

Agreed. We should move to something like Sweden’s model after local epidemics are brought under control. Areas with uncontrolled spread and which are approaching herd immunity could likely do with even looser restrictions.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=spdrun]We’re not protecting only the elderly and the sick … we’re protecting anyone who needs hospital care for other things from overwhelmed hospitals.[/quote]

And what percentage of the population is that ?

[quote=spdrun]The goal needs to be to prevent uncontrolled spread until we reach herd immunity or a vaccine is found.[/quote]

Allowing low-risk people to resume their lives would help this immensely.

[spdrun]

Do you really want to get in a car crash when hospitals are filled to the brim with COVID patients?

[The-Shoveler]

In LA the big surge never came, they have at least 1000 empty beds.

[Author]

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