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urbanrealtor.
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February 11, 2011 at 9:38 PM #666268February 11, 2011 at 9:55 PM #665137
NotCranky
Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=Rustico]I agree that it is hard to fit multiculturalism in a nationalistic framework. Might be better to criticize nationalism.[/quote]
Yes, I agree.
The nation state is a modern phenomenon. 100 years ago Europe was a lot more multicultural and borders were more flexible and changing.[/quote]
Maybe some brands of nationlism are even more problematic with regards to inclusion. French nationalism is based in a relatively singular ethnic/cultural past, whereas ours is based on the melting pot model from the start.All you have to do it plant a flag, pick a football team and get a job and you are “American”. (I see that you are alluding to this in response to CARenter)
I also wonder if there is not a backlash against Muslims in France because the French have become impotent in their former colonies, from which they acquired these immigrants.
February 11, 2011 at 9:55 PM #665199Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=Rustico]I agree that it is hard to fit multiculturalism in a nationalistic framework. Might be better to criticize nationalism.[/quote]
Yes, I agree.
The nation state is a modern phenomenon. 100 years ago Europe was a lot more multicultural and borders were more flexible and changing.[/quote]
Maybe some brands of nationlism are even more problematic with regards to inclusion. French nationalism is based in a relatively singular ethnic/cultural past, whereas ours is based on the melting pot model from the start.All you have to do it plant a flag, pick a football team and get a job and you are “American”. (I see that you are alluding to this in response to CARenter)
I also wonder if there is not a backlash against Muslims in France because the French have become impotent in their former colonies, from which they acquired these immigrants.
February 11, 2011 at 9:55 PM #665801Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=Rustico]I agree that it is hard to fit multiculturalism in a nationalistic framework. Might be better to criticize nationalism.[/quote]
Yes, I agree.
The nation state is a modern phenomenon. 100 years ago Europe was a lot more multicultural and borders were more flexible and changing.[/quote]
Maybe some brands of nationlism are even more problematic with regards to inclusion. French nationalism is based in a relatively singular ethnic/cultural past, whereas ours is based on the melting pot model from the start.All you have to do it plant a flag, pick a football team and get a job and you are “American”. (I see that you are alluding to this in response to CARenter)
I also wonder if there is not a backlash against Muslims in France because the French have become impotent in their former colonies, from which they acquired these immigrants.
February 11, 2011 at 9:55 PM #665937Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=Rustico]I agree that it is hard to fit multiculturalism in a nationalistic framework. Might be better to criticize nationalism.[/quote]
Yes, I agree.
The nation state is a modern phenomenon. 100 years ago Europe was a lot more multicultural and borders were more flexible and changing.[/quote]
Maybe some brands of nationlism are even more problematic with regards to inclusion. French nationalism is based in a relatively singular ethnic/cultural past, whereas ours is based on the melting pot model from the start.All you have to do it plant a flag, pick a football team and get a job and you are “American”. (I see that you are alluding to this in response to CARenter)
I also wonder if there is not a backlash against Muslims in France because the French have become impotent in their former colonies, from which they acquired these immigrants.
February 11, 2011 at 9:55 PM #666273Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=Rustico]I agree that it is hard to fit multiculturalism in a nationalistic framework. Might be better to criticize nationalism.[/quote]
Yes, I agree.
The nation state is a modern phenomenon. 100 years ago Europe was a lot more multicultural and borders were more flexible and changing.[/quote]
Maybe some brands of nationlism are even more problematic with regards to inclusion. French nationalism is based in a relatively singular ethnic/cultural past, whereas ours is based on the melting pot model from the start.All you have to do it plant a flag, pick a football team and get a job and you are “American”. (I see that you are alluding to this in response to CARenter)
I also wonder if there is not a backlash against Muslims in France because the French have become impotent in their former colonies, from which they acquired these immigrants.
February 11, 2011 at 9:57 PM #665142Arraya
Participant[quote=CA renter]
And this is where that “loss aversion” comes into play.
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.
The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
Well, this is big topic. But, survival can manifest in different ways. Competing for territory and resources against other ‘tribes’, in fact, may actually become antithetical to survival at some point and surely antithetical to group sanity, stability and common decency. There is a fine line between human behavior produced by an environment and human “nature”. In fact, you can’t really talk about nature outside of the context of environment.
Religion, ethnicity, race, nationalism, are not only points of affinity but developed as walls of division and are grounds of exploitation. Those within a household to the political offices of a nation learn well and communicate these “differences” to their own advantage especially during times of economic stress and perceived scarcity.
February 11, 2011 at 9:57 PM #665203Participant[quote=CA renter]
And this is where that “loss aversion” comes into play.
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.
The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
Well, this is big topic. But, survival can manifest in different ways. Competing for territory and resources against other ‘tribes’, in fact, may actually become antithetical to survival at some point and surely antithetical to group sanity, stability and common decency. There is a fine line between human behavior produced by an environment and human “nature”. In fact, you can’t really talk about nature outside of the context of environment.
Religion, ethnicity, race, nationalism, are not only points of affinity but developed as walls of division and are grounds of exploitation. Those within a household to the political offices of a nation learn well and communicate these “differences” to their own advantage especially during times of economic stress and perceived scarcity.
February 11, 2011 at 9:57 PM #665806Participant[quote=CA renter]
And this is where that “loss aversion” comes into play.
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.
The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
Well, this is big topic. But, survival can manifest in different ways. Competing for territory and resources against other ‘tribes’, in fact, may actually become antithetical to survival at some point and surely antithetical to group sanity, stability and common decency. There is a fine line between human behavior produced by an environment and human “nature”. In fact, you can’t really talk about nature outside of the context of environment.
Religion, ethnicity, race, nationalism, are not only points of affinity but developed as walls of division and are grounds of exploitation. Those within a household to the political offices of a nation learn well and communicate these “differences” to their own advantage especially during times of economic stress and perceived scarcity.
February 11, 2011 at 9:57 PM #665942Participant[quote=CA renter]
And this is where that “loss aversion” comes into play.
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.
The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
Well, this is big topic. But, survival can manifest in different ways. Competing for territory and resources against other ‘tribes’, in fact, may actually become antithetical to survival at some point and surely antithetical to group sanity, stability and common decency. There is a fine line between human behavior produced by an environment and human “nature”. In fact, you can’t really talk about nature outside of the context of environment.
Religion, ethnicity, race, nationalism, are not only points of affinity but developed as walls of division and are grounds of exploitation. Those within a household to the political offices of a nation learn well and communicate these “differences” to their own advantage especially during times of economic stress and perceived scarcity.
February 11, 2011 at 9:57 PM #666277Participant[quote=CA renter]
And this is where that “loss aversion” comes into play.
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.
The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
Well, this is big topic. But, survival can manifest in different ways. Competing for territory and resources against other ‘tribes’, in fact, may actually become antithetical to survival at some point and surely antithetical to group sanity, stability and common decency. There is a fine line between human behavior produced by an environment and human “nature”. In fact, you can’t really talk about nature outside of the context of environment.
Religion, ethnicity, race, nationalism, are not only points of affinity but developed as walls of division and are grounds of exploitation. Those within a household to the political offices of a nation learn well and communicate these “differences” to their own advantage especially during times of economic stress and perceived scarcity.
February 11, 2011 at 10:21 PM #665147SK in CV
Participant[quote=CA renter]
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
I would propose that humans do not now, nor have we ever had “herding” instincts. Hoarding behavior is learned. And has little, if anything, to do with opposition to a multicultural society.
It is rather, a remnant of object permanence, an intellectual growth stage in infancy. Infants recognize that “things” exist even though they are not always present. Both other people and objects. Like parents, siblings, pacifier. Infants, and later as toddlers and small children, are comforted by that which is familiar. (You parents remember when your kids wanted to watch the same movie over and over and over again. They like knowing what’s going to happen next.)
As older children, and unfortunately, sometimes as adults, we are only comforted by that which is familiar. All else is “other”. “Other” is stressful. It creates fear. We really all do have the intellectual capacity, as adults, to overcome that stress and fear.
Yeah, I went there.
February 11, 2011 at 10:21 PM #665208Participant[quote=CA renter]
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
I would propose that humans do not now, nor have we ever had “herding” instincts. Hoarding behavior is learned. And has little, if anything, to do with opposition to a multicultural society.
It is rather, a remnant of object permanence, an intellectual growth stage in infancy. Infants recognize that “things” exist even though they are not always present. Both other people and objects. Like parents, siblings, pacifier. Infants, and later as toddlers and small children, are comforted by that which is familiar. (You parents remember when your kids wanted to watch the same movie over and over and over again. They like knowing what’s going to happen next.)
As older children, and unfortunately, sometimes as adults, we are only comforted by that which is familiar. All else is “other”. “Other” is stressful. It creates fear. We really all do have the intellectual capacity, as adults, to overcome that stress and fear.
Yeah, I went there.
February 11, 2011 at 10:21 PM #665811Participant[quote=CA renter]
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
I would propose that humans do not now, nor have we ever had “herding” instincts. Hoarding behavior is learned. And has little, if anything, to do with opposition to a multicultural society.
It is rather, a remnant of object permanence, an intellectual growth stage in infancy. Infants recognize that “things” exist even though they are not always present. Both other people and objects. Like parents, siblings, pacifier. Infants, and later as toddlers and small children, are comforted by that which is familiar. (You parents remember when your kids wanted to watch the same movie over and over and over again. They like knowing what’s going to happen next.)
As older children, and unfortunately, sometimes as adults, we are only comforted by that which is familiar. All else is “other”. “Other” is stressful. It creates fear. We really all do have the intellectual capacity, as adults, to overcome that stress and fear.
Yeah, I went there.
February 11, 2011 at 10:21 PM #665947Participant[quote=CA renter]
Humans have a herding instinct, and we form groups that we feel will optimize our access to resources and territory. We are territorial, and defend our territories as a herd.The resistance to “multiculturalism” is basic to human nature. It has nothing to do with religion (or race, or culture), specifically, and everything to do with trying to control certain resources that “belong” to the group.
When a new group with different characteristics (religion, color, language, culture, etc.) encroaches on an existing group’s territory/resources, they are demanding access to the resources that the existing group perceives as their own.
It is about hoarding behavior and access to resources; and it is as basic to human (and animal) nature as eating and procreation. It’s a survival instinct, and it’s ridiculous to think that we can change something that is so intrinsic and essential to our survival.[/quote]
I would propose that humans do not now, nor have we ever had “herding” instincts. Hoarding behavior is learned. And has little, if anything, to do with opposition to a multicultural society.
It is rather, a remnant of object permanence, an intellectual growth stage in infancy. Infants recognize that “things” exist even though they are not always present. Both other people and objects. Like parents, siblings, pacifier. Infants, and later as toddlers and small children, are comforted by that which is familiar. (You parents remember when your kids wanted to watch the same movie over and over and over again. They like knowing what’s going to happen next.)
As older children, and unfortunately, sometimes as adults, we are only comforted by that which is familiar. All else is “other”. “Other” is stressful. It creates fear. We really all do have the intellectual capacity, as adults, to overcome that stress and fear.
Yeah, I went there.
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