Career Advice Request

[beanmaestro]

bjensen-

Being an overeducated engineer, I have a different enough background than you that I’m talking out my ass, but a couple thoughts:

– Being competitive in law school will be awfully hard unless your family is willing to full support you on the home front. Your competition may well have a lot fewer distractions than you.
– Even if you get a $100-150k job after you graduate, consider what it costs. My lawyer friends work 20 more hours a week than I do, and have $100k more loans than I do. They’re welcome to a higher salary.
– Sales is a fine jumping off point to start a more ambitious job, especially at a start-up. You might consider the next such offer, and talk to the principals about your desire to do more than sales. In many of the startups I’ve seen, the initial sales guy becomes the CFO pretty fast. Any small company benefits from someone who can wear many hats.
– If you do go to law school, tailor your education to enhance something you’re already good at, maybe sales. Generic lawyers ARE a dime a dozen, don’t be generic.
– Learn math at some point, just to prove to yourself that you can do it. If hormone-addled teenagers can do it, it can’t be that hard.

[Anonymous]

Bjensen,

Sure, glad to help. To answer a couple of your questions. No, you would not be relegated to $20/hour doc review if you don’t graduate from a top 20 school in the first quartile. Some of the other posters were correct in emphasizing the importance of the region where you plan to work. For example, some USD grads in the top of their class can get jobs in top firms, whereas a USD degree would not be worth much in, say, Florida. In general, the better the school, the better your chances; and the lower-ranked the school, the more pressure you will face to rank near the top of your class. And keep in mind, what I (and presumably others) are focusing on are your prospects for landing a top-paying job at a first-rate firm directly out of law school. Starting salaries at the top CA and national firms are now $160,000. By way of comparison, a decent mid-size local SD firm might pay you maybe half that ($80K to $100K tops) as a new graduate, assuming you can even get a job. And trust me, it is highly competitive. There is also a tremendous “San Diego discount,” as many firms here pay a good 20% (or more) less than those in LA, SF, and other comparable cities. As for specific schools, you’d be much better off at UCLA than Hastings, though the latter is a great school and well-recognized in California. When you consider that schools just below the top 25 include places like Fordham, Illinois, and Washington & Lee, I would try to stay in the top 20 if possible. A top-20 school like Duke, Georgetown, Texas, or Michigan is a much safer bet–especially considering that your debt load for a top school will be no less than a second-tier one. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Bjensen,

Sure, glad to help. To answer a couple of your questions. No, you would not be relegated to $20/hour doc review if you don’t graduate from a top 20 school in the first quartile. Some of the other posters were correct in emphasizing the importance of the region where you plan to work. For example, some USD grads in the top of their class can get jobs in top firms, whereas a USD degree would not be worth much in, say, Florida. In general, the better the school, the better your chances; and the lower-ranked the school, the more pressure you will face to rank near the top of your class. And keep in mind, what I (and presumably others) are focusing on are your prospects for landing a top-paying job at a first-rate firm directly out of law school. Starting salaries at the top CA and national firms are now $160,000. By way of comparison, a decent mid-size local SD firm might pay you maybe half that ($80K to $100K tops) as a new graduate, assuming you can even get a job. And trust me, it is highly competitive. There is also a tremendous “San Diego discount,” as many firms here pay a good 20% (or more) less than those in LA, SF, and other comparable cities. As for specific schools, you’d be much better off at UCLA than Hastings, though the latter is a great school and well-recognized in California. When you consider that schools just below the top 25 include places like Fordham, Illinois, and Washington & Lee, I would try to stay in the top 20 if possible. A top-20 school like Duke, Georgetown, Texas, or Michigan is a much safer bet–especially considering that your debt load for a top school will be no less than a second-tier one. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Bjensen,

Sure, glad to help. To answer a couple of your questions. No, you would not be relegated to $20/hour doc review if you don’t graduate from a top 20 school in the first quartile. Some of the other posters were correct in emphasizing the importance of the region where you plan to work. For example, some USD grads in the top of their class can get jobs in top firms, whereas a USD degree would not be worth much in, say, Florida. In general, the better the school, the better your chances; and the lower-ranked the school, the more pressure you will face to rank near the top of your class. And keep in mind, what I (and presumably others) are focusing on are your prospects for landing a top-paying job at a first-rate firm directly out of law school. Starting salaries at the top CA and national firms are now $160,000. By way of comparison, a decent mid-size local SD firm might pay you maybe half that ($80K to $100K tops) as a new graduate, assuming you can even get a job. And trust me, it is highly competitive. There is also a tremendous “San Diego discount,” as many firms here pay a good 20% (or more) less than those in LA, SF, and other comparable cities. As for specific schools, you’d be much better off at UCLA than Hastings, though the latter is a great school and well-recognized in California. When you consider that schools just below the top 25 include places like Fordham, Illinois, and Washington & Lee, I would try to stay in the top 20 if possible. A top-20 school like Duke, Georgetown, Texas, or Michigan is a much safer bet–especially considering that your debt load for a top school will be no less than a second-tier one. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Bjensen,

Sure, glad to help. To answer a couple of your questions. No, you would not be relegated to $20/hour doc review if you don’t graduate from a top 20 school in the first quartile. Some of the other posters were correct in emphasizing the importance of the region where you plan to work. For example, some USD grads in the top of their class can get jobs in top firms, whereas a USD degree would not be worth much in, say, Florida. In general, the better the school, the better your chances; and the lower-ranked the school, the more pressure you will face to rank near the top of your class. And keep in mind, what I (and presumably others) are focusing on are your prospects for landing a top-paying job at a first-rate firm directly out of law school. Starting salaries at the top CA and national firms are now $160,000. By way of comparison, a decent mid-size local SD firm might pay you maybe half that ($80K to $100K tops) as a new graduate, assuming you can even get a job. And trust me, it is highly competitive. There is also a tremendous “San Diego discount,” as many firms here pay a good 20% (or more) less than those in LA, SF, and other comparable cities. As for specific schools, you’d be much better off at UCLA than Hastings, though the latter is a great school and well-recognized in California. When you consider that schools just below the top 25 include places like Fordham, Illinois, and Washington & Lee, I would try to stay in the top 20 if possible. A top-20 school like Duke, Georgetown, Texas, or Michigan is a much safer bet–especially considering that your debt load for a top school will be no less than a second-tier one. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Bjensen,

Sure, glad to help. To answer a couple of your questions. No, you would not be relegated to $20/hour doc review if you don’t graduate from a top 20 school in the first quartile. Some of the other posters were correct in emphasizing the importance of the region where you plan to work. For example, some USD grads in the top of their class can get jobs in top firms, whereas a USD degree would not be worth much in, say, Florida. In general, the better the school, the better your chances; and the lower-ranked the school, the more pressure you will face to rank near the top of your class. And keep in mind, what I (and presumably others) are focusing on are your prospects for landing a top-paying job at a first-rate firm directly out of law school. Starting salaries at the top CA and national firms are now $160,000. By way of comparison, a decent mid-size local SD firm might pay you maybe half that ($80K to $100K tops) as a new graduate, assuming you can even get a job. And trust me, it is highly competitive. There is also a tremendous “San Diego discount,” as many firms here pay a good 20% (or more) less than those in LA, SF, and other comparable cities. As for specific schools, you’d be much better off at UCLA than Hastings, though the latter is a great school and well-recognized in California. When you consider that schools just below the top 25 include places like Fordham, Illinois, and Washington & Lee, I would try to stay in the top 20 if possible. A top-20 school like Duke, Georgetown, Texas, or Michigan is a much safer bet–especially considering that your debt load for a top school will be no less than a second-tier one. Best of luck.

[PCinSD]

Here’s my 2 cents based on what I’ve experienced:

I’m a solo practitioner. I went to law school after 9 years in the Navy. You can make a very good living as an attorney regardless of the school you attend. I chose to go to law school because I wanted/needed a marketable skill that would pay the bills. That, and I knew I had an aptitude for it. I went to Cal Western (downtown) in 1997. I wasn’t thrilled with the school, but that’s just me. It was simply a means to an end – passing the bar exam. If you have high enough undergrad grades and a high LSAT score, any of the 3 local schools may give you a scholarship. Cal Western offered me more than USD, so I went with them. Cal Western also allows you to go full time, straight through. You can knock it out in 2 years. They have a good reputation locally. However, if I had to do it over again I’d go with USD.

The advantage of going to school in the town you want to work is that you make connections in the legal community while in school. You can work as a law clerk and also as an intern. This could result in a job for you when you graduate. You also make friends while at school – most of whom end up practicing in the same city. They can potentially become a great source of future referrals and/or jobs.

As far as firms go, I’ve never worked for a firm and never will. I know people who do. They work an insane amount of hours to make someone else wealthy. With a wife and a child your time is probably worth more. I nearly starved for the first few years of practicing. Things finally turned around for me a couple of years ago. The key is getting clients. Your sales background may be of help there. If you have the clients, you can make more money working less hours than you could with a firm. For example, if you bill 40 hours a month at an hourly rate of $250, there’s $120,000/yr. That’s why firms have such high billable hour requirements. Keep in mind that billable hours and hours worked are not the same. You don’t always get to bill for everything you do.

I had the luxury of spending the time and money on law school because I’m single. You might not. If you go full time, you probably won’t work (other than as a law clerk) and won’t generate any income for your family. It will be stressful. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a job that is profitable and tons of fun. I enjoy some parts of being a lawyer more than others. Either way, I know that I will always be able to make a living because I have a law license.

Best of luck to you,

pabloesqobar

[PCinSD]

Here’s my 2 cents based on what I’ve experienced:

I’m a solo practitioner. I went to law school after 9 years in the Navy. You can make a very good living as an attorney regardless of the school you attend. I chose to go to law school because I wanted/needed a marketable skill that would pay the bills. That, and I knew I had an aptitude for it. I went to Cal Western (downtown) in 1997. I wasn’t thrilled with the school, but that’s just me. It was simply a means to an end – passing the bar exam. If you have high enough undergrad grades and a high LSAT score, any of the 3 local schools may give you a scholarship. Cal Western offered me more than USD, so I went with them. Cal Western also allows you to go full time, straight through. You can knock it out in 2 years. They have a good reputation locally. However, if I had to do it over again I’d go with USD.

The advantage of going to school in the town you want to work is that you make connections in the legal community while in school. You can work as a law clerk and also as an intern. This could result in a job for you when you graduate. You also make friends while at school – most of whom end up practicing in the same city. They can potentially become a great source of future referrals and/or jobs.

As far as firms go, I’ve never worked for a firm and never will. I know people who do. They work an insane amount of hours to make someone else wealthy. With a wife and a child your time is probably worth more. I nearly starved for the first few years of practicing. Things finally turned around for me a couple of years ago. The key is getting clients. Your sales background may be of help there. If you have the clients, you can make more money working less hours than you could with a firm. For example, if you bill 40 hours a month at an hourly rate of $250, there’s $120,000/yr. That’s why firms have such high billable hour requirements. Keep in mind that billable hours and hours worked are not the same. You don’t always get to bill for everything you do.

I had the luxury of spending the time and money on law school because I’m single. You might not. If you go full time, you probably won’t work (other than as a law clerk) and won’t generate any income for your family. It will be stressful. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a job that is profitable and tons of fun. I enjoy some parts of being a lawyer more than others. Either way, I know that I will always be able to make a living because I have a law license.

Best of luck to you,

pabloesqobar

[PCinSD]

Here’s my 2 cents based on what I’ve experienced:

I’m a solo practitioner. I went to law school after 9 years in the Navy. You can make a very good living as an attorney regardless of the school you attend. I chose to go to law school because I wanted/needed a marketable skill that would pay the bills. That, and I knew I had an aptitude for it. I went to Cal Western (downtown) in 1997. I wasn’t thrilled with the school, but that’s just me. It was simply a means to an end – passing the bar exam. If you have high enough undergrad grades and a high LSAT score, any of the 3 local schools may give you a scholarship. Cal Western offered me more than USD, so I went with them. Cal Western also allows you to go full time, straight through. You can knock it out in 2 years. They have a good reputation locally. However, if I had to do it over again I’d go with USD.

The advantage of going to school in the town you want to work is that you make connections in the legal community while in school. You can work as a law clerk and also as an intern. This could result in a job for you when you graduate. You also make friends while at school – most of whom end up practicing in the same city. They can potentially become a great source of future referrals and/or jobs.

As far as firms go, I’ve never worked for a firm and never will. I know people who do. They work an insane amount of hours to make someone else wealthy. With a wife and a child your time is probably worth more. I nearly starved for the first few years of practicing. Things finally turned around for me a couple of years ago. The key is getting clients. Your sales background may be of help there. If you have the clients, you can make more money working less hours than you could with a firm. For example, if you bill 40 hours a month at an hourly rate of $250, there’s $120,000/yr. That’s why firms have such high billable hour requirements. Keep in mind that billable hours and hours worked are not the same. You don’t always get to bill for everything you do.

I had the luxury of spending the time and money on law school because I’m single. You might not. If you go full time, you probably won’t work (other than as a law clerk) and won’t generate any income for your family. It will be stressful. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a job that is profitable and tons of fun. I enjoy some parts of being a lawyer more than others. Either way, I know that I will always be able to make a living because I have a law license.

Best of luck to you,

pabloesqobar

[PCinSD]

Here’s my 2 cents based on what I’ve experienced:

I’m a solo practitioner. I went to law school after 9 years in the Navy. You can make a very good living as an attorney regardless of the school you attend. I chose to go to law school because I wanted/needed a marketable skill that would pay the bills. That, and I knew I had an aptitude for it. I went to Cal Western (downtown) in 1997. I wasn’t thrilled with the school, but that’s just me. It was simply a means to an end – passing the bar exam. If you have high enough undergrad grades and a high LSAT score, any of the 3 local schools may give you a scholarship. Cal Western offered me more than USD, so I went with them. Cal Western also allows you to go full time, straight through. You can knock it out in 2 years. They have a good reputation locally. However, if I had to do it over again I’d go with USD.

The advantage of going to school in the town you want to work is that you make connections in the legal community while in school. You can work as a law clerk and also as an intern. This could result in a job for you when you graduate. You also make friends while at school – most of whom end up practicing in the same city. They can potentially become a great source of future referrals and/or jobs.

As far as firms go, I’ve never worked for a firm and never will. I know people who do. They work an insane amount of hours to make someone else wealthy. With a wife and a child your time is probably worth more. I nearly starved for the first few years of practicing. Things finally turned around for me a couple of years ago. The key is getting clients. Your sales background may be of help there. If you have the clients, you can make more money working less hours than you could with a firm. For example, if you bill 40 hours a month at an hourly rate of $250, there’s $120,000/yr. That’s why firms have such high billable hour requirements. Keep in mind that billable hours and hours worked are not the same. You don’t always get to bill for everything you do.

I had the luxury of spending the time and money on law school because I’m single. You might not. If you go full time, you probably won’t work (other than as a law clerk) and won’t generate any income for your family. It will be stressful. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a job that is profitable and tons of fun. I enjoy some parts of being a lawyer more than others. Either way, I know that I will always be able to make a living because I have a law license.

Best of luck to you,

pabloesqobar

[PCinSD]

Here’s my 2 cents based on what I’ve experienced:

I’m a solo practitioner. I went to law school after 9 years in the Navy. You can make a very good living as an attorney regardless of the school you attend. I chose to go to law school because I wanted/needed a marketable skill that would pay the bills. That, and I knew I had an aptitude for it. I went to Cal Western (downtown) in 1997. I wasn’t thrilled with the school, but that’s just me. It was simply a means to an end – passing the bar exam. If you have high enough undergrad grades and a high LSAT score, any of the 3 local schools may give you a scholarship. Cal Western offered me more than USD, so I went with them. Cal Western also allows you to go full time, straight through. You can knock it out in 2 years. They have a good reputation locally. However, if I had to do it over again I’d go with USD.

The advantage of going to school in the town you want to work is that you make connections in the legal community while in school. You can work as a law clerk and also as an intern. This could result in a job for you when you graduate. You also make friends while at school – most of whom end up practicing in the same city. They can potentially become a great source of future referrals and/or jobs.

As far as firms go, I’ve never worked for a firm and never will. I know people who do. They work an insane amount of hours to make someone else wealthy. With a wife and a child your time is probably worth more. I nearly starved for the first few years of practicing. Things finally turned around for me a couple of years ago. The key is getting clients. Your sales background may be of help there. If you have the clients, you can make more money working less hours than you could with a firm. For example, if you bill 40 hours a month at an hourly rate of $250, there’s $120,000/yr. That’s why firms have such high billable hour requirements. Keep in mind that billable hours and hours worked are not the same. You don’t always get to bill for everything you do.

I had the luxury of spending the time and money on law school because I’m single. You might not. If you go full time, you probably won’t work (other than as a law clerk) and won’t generate any income for your family. It will be stressful. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a job that is profitable and tons of fun. I enjoy some parts of being a lawyer more than others. Either way, I know that I will always be able to make a living because I have a law license.

Best of luck to you,

pabloesqobar

[Anonymous]

I expect that my sales background will be an asset, especially if I use my law degree for business related ventures. I have a friend who graduated from William and Mary a few years ago and his first job out of school was selling legal software! He said the pay was too good to pass up, and he had a sales background. I am considering focusing on real estate law, possibly getting a joint degree in law/real estate development and aiming for a more entrepreneural career.

[Anonymous]

I expect that my sales background will be an asset, especially if I use my law degree for business related ventures. I have a friend who graduated from William and Mary a few years ago and his first job out of school was selling legal software! He said the pay was too good to pass up, and he had a sales background. I am considering focusing on real estate law, possibly getting a joint degree in law/real estate development and aiming for a more entrepreneural career.

[Anonymous]

I expect that my sales background will be an asset, especially if I use my law degree for business related ventures. I have a friend who graduated from William and Mary a few years ago and his first job out of school was selling legal software! He said the pay was too good to pass up, and he had a sales background. I am considering focusing on real estate law, possibly getting a joint degree in law/real estate development and aiming for a more entrepreneural career.

[Anonymous]

I expect that my sales background will be an asset, especially if I use my law degree for business related ventures. I have a friend who graduated from William and Mary a few years ago and his first job out of school was selling legal software! He said the pay was too good to pass up, and he had a sales background. I am considering focusing on real estate law, possibly getting a joint degree in law/real estate development and aiming for a more entrepreneural career.

[Author]

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