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August 21, 2008 at 6:00 AM #13626August 21, 2008 at 9:17 AM #259413XBoxBoyParticipant
[quote=Mickey Levy]Let’s consider the magnitude of existing imbalances and extrapolate recent trends.[/quote]
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations? Doesn’t that warrant serious doubt about the whole concept of extrapolating recent trends to make predictions? Is it too much to ask that we might actually learn from our past and stop repeating the techniques that didn’t work before?
And if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends, then doesn’t that blow a hole in his argument that things will bottom when fundamentals make sense? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to believe that if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends that we will blow right past fundamentals and overshoot to the downside?
XBoxBoy
August 21, 2008 at 9:17 AM #259606XBoxBoyParticipant[quote=Mickey Levy]Let’s consider the magnitude of existing imbalances and extrapolate recent trends.[/quote]
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations? Doesn’t that warrant serious doubt about the whole concept of extrapolating recent trends to make predictions? Is it too much to ask that we might actually learn from our past and stop repeating the techniques that didn’t work before?
And if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends, then doesn’t that blow a hole in his argument that things will bottom when fundamentals make sense? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to believe that if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends that we will blow right past fundamentals and overshoot to the downside?
XBoxBoy
August 21, 2008 at 9:17 AM #259620XBoxBoyParticipant[quote=Mickey Levy]Let’s consider the magnitude of existing imbalances and extrapolate recent trends.[/quote]
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations? Doesn’t that warrant serious doubt about the whole concept of extrapolating recent trends to make predictions? Is it too much to ask that we might actually learn from our past and stop repeating the techniques that didn’t work before?
And if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends, then doesn’t that blow a hole in his argument that things will bottom when fundamentals make sense? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to believe that if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends that we will blow right past fundamentals and overshoot to the downside?
XBoxBoy
August 21, 2008 at 9:17 AM #259667XBoxBoyParticipant[quote=Mickey Levy]Let’s consider the magnitude of existing imbalances and extrapolate recent trends.[/quote]
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations? Doesn’t that warrant serious doubt about the whole concept of extrapolating recent trends to make predictions? Is it too much to ask that we might actually learn from our past and stop repeating the techniques that didn’t work before?
And if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends, then doesn’t that blow a hole in his argument that things will bottom when fundamentals make sense? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to believe that if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends that we will blow right past fundamentals and overshoot to the downside?
XBoxBoy
August 21, 2008 at 9:17 AM #259710XBoxBoyParticipant[quote=Mickey Levy]Let’s consider the magnitude of existing imbalances and extrapolate recent trends.[/quote]
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations? Doesn’t that warrant serious doubt about the whole concept of extrapolating recent trends to make predictions? Is it too much to ask that we might actually learn from our past and stop repeating the techniques that didn’t work before?
And if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends, then doesn’t that blow a hole in his argument that things will bottom when fundamentals make sense? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to believe that if people are going to continue to extrapolate from recent trends that we will blow right past fundamentals and overshoot to the downside?
XBoxBoy
August 21, 2008 at 10:14 AM #259453BugsParticipantSomeone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations?
Exactly, hence the value of looking at the recent trends within the context of the long term trends rather than using ant point in a single cycle as the reference point.
August 21, 2008 at 10:14 AM #259646BugsParticipantSomeone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations?
Exactly, hence the value of looking at the recent trends within the context of the long term trends rather than using ant point in a single cycle as the reference point.
August 21, 2008 at 10:14 AM #259659BugsParticipantSomeone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations?
Exactly, hence the value of looking at the recent trends within the context of the long term trends rather than using ant point in a single cycle as the reference point.
August 21, 2008 at 10:14 AM #259749BugsParticipantSomeone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations?
Exactly, hence the value of looking at the recent trends within the context of the long term trends rather than using ant point in a single cycle as the reference point.
August 21, 2008 at 10:14 AM #259708BugsParticipantSomeone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we get into this mess when too many people in 2003 and 2004 extrapolated recent trends and then made prediction based on those extrapolations?
Exactly, hence the value of looking at the recent trends within the context of the long term trends rather than using ant point in a single cycle as the reference point.
August 21, 2008 at 11:22 AM #259727peterbParticipantThe mess really hit the fan when lenders decided to give money to anyone with a pulse. Having bought and sold houses from 1990 to 2007, I can tell you that I was blown away by lenders starting in 2003. I started flipping homes like crazy because I knew that anyone could now buy. Take a market that’s got decent demand and open up the funding spigot. You get massive inflation caused by incredible leverage. This makes a bubble. Bubble burst once it is recognized that they cannot sustain their growth rates and/or the debt can no longer be serviced that got them the growth. When leverage unwinds, it’s an ugly downward cycle. That’s what we’re seeing in the RE market now. Falling prices = no equity. No credit. Add unemployment and you’ve got a perfect storm. Even when prices get down to historical levels, like 5 times annual income, there will not be much demand due the psychological distruction of RE as an investment and the fear of job loss. When this happens, there will be real deals in the RE market. But then, we may take a lot longer to recover than in past RE cycles….
August 21, 2008 at 11:22 AM #259767peterbParticipantThe mess really hit the fan when lenders decided to give money to anyone with a pulse. Having bought and sold houses from 1990 to 2007, I can tell you that I was blown away by lenders starting in 2003. I started flipping homes like crazy because I knew that anyone could now buy. Take a market that’s got decent demand and open up the funding spigot. You get massive inflation caused by incredible leverage. This makes a bubble. Bubble burst once it is recognized that they cannot sustain their growth rates and/or the debt can no longer be serviced that got them the growth. When leverage unwinds, it’s an ugly downward cycle. That’s what we’re seeing in the RE market now. Falling prices = no equity. No credit. Add unemployment and you’ve got a perfect storm. Even when prices get down to historical levels, like 5 times annual income, there will not be much demand due the psychological distruction of RE as an investment and the fear of job loss. When this happens, there will be real deals in the RE market. But then, we may take a lot longer to recover than in past RE cycles….
August 21, 2008 at 11:22 AM #259679peterbParticipantThe mess really hit the fan when lenders decided to give money to anyone with a pulse. Having bought and sold houses from 1990 to 2007, I can tell you that I was blown away by lenders starting in 2003. I started flipping homes like crazy because I knew that anyone could now buy. Take a market that’s got decent demand and open up the funding spigot. You get massive inflation caused by incredible leverage. This makes a bubble. Bubble burst once it is recognized that they cannot sustain their growth rates and/or the debt can no longer be serviced that got them the growth. When leverage unwinds, it’s an ugly downward cycle. That’s what we’re seeing in the RE market now. Falling prices = no equity. No credit. Add unemployment and you’ve got a perfect storm. Even when prices get down to historical levels, like 5 times annual income, there will not be much demand due the psychological distruction of RE as an investment and the fear of job loss. When this happens, there will be real deals in the RE market. But then, we may take a lot longer to recover than in past RE cycles….
August 21, 2008 at 11:22 AM #259666peterbParticipantThe mess really hit the fan when lenders decided to give money to anyone with a pulse. Having bought and sold houses from 1990 to 2007, I can tell you that I was blown away by lenders starting in 2003. I started flipping homes like crazy because I knew that anyone could now buy. Take a market that’s got decent demand and open up the funding spigot. You get massive inflation caused by incredible leverage. This makes a bubble. Bubble burst once it is recognized that they cannot sustain their growth rates and/or the debt can no longer be serviced that got them the growth. When leverage unwinds, it’s an ugly downward cycle. That’s what we’re seeing in the RE market now. Falling prices = no equity. No credit. Add unemployment and you’ve got a perfect storm. Even when prices get down to historical levels, like 5 times annual income, there will not be much demand due the psychological distruction of RE as an investment and the fear of job loss. When this happens, there will be real deals in the RE market. But then, we may take a lot longer to recover than in past RE cycles….
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