ballot proposition to decrease state worker’s pay?

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
The prison system is also one of the biggest expenditures for the state. Again, I’ve seen estimates that show 40-50% of the prison population consists of illegal immigrants.
[/quote]

You make a good point about the prison system and illegal immigrants.

But would you rather deport the criminals back to their home countries or do you want them to serve time for their crimes?

[quote=CA renter]
Want to eliminate a huge chunk of the state’s employees? Fix the illegal immigration problem, and the schools, prisons, etc. will have to cut staff. Voila! The budget is fixed![/quote]

The illegal immigrant situation will not be solved easily.

In the immediate term, however, state and local governments’ budgets are limited. They need to cut staff, benefits and services in order to balance their budgets notwithstanding the issues with illegal immigration.

It won’t be pleasant and people won’t be happy but it’s got to be done. We can only spend what we can afford.

[briansd1]

[quote=davelj]I think I have a better idea.

Just pass a ballot proposition that limits the increase in state spending each year to the following formula:

CPI + (Estimated) Population Change (%)

It’s not perfect, but it would essentially keep state spending per capita constant in real dollars (roughly, that is). Had we done this a decade ago, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Edit: In addition, the nice thing is that this would allow the state to spend more in years when the economy sucks (that is, run deficits) because surpluses would build during the good years. In other words, it would allow for fiscal flexibility when needed, while not allowing such “flexibility” to grow ad infinitum.[/quote]

I think that it’s a great idea.

[briansd1]

[quote=davelj]I think I have a better idea.

Just pass a ballot proposition that limits the increase in state spending each year to the following formula:

CPI + (Estimated) Population Change (%)

It’s not perfect, but it would essentially keep state spending per capita constant in real dollars (roughly, that is). Had we done this a decade ago, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Edit: In addition, the nice thing is that this would allow the state to spend more in years when the economy sucks (that is, run deficits) because surpluses would build during the good years. In other words, it would allow for fiscal flexibility when needed, while not allowing such “flexibility” to grow ad infinitum.[/quote]

I think that it’s a great idea.

[briansd1]

[quote=davelj]I think I have a better idea.

Just pass a ballot proposition that limits the increase in state spending each year to the following formula:

CPI + (Estimated) Population Change (%)

It’s not perfect, but it would essentially keep state spending per capita constant in real dollars (roughly, that is). Had we done this a decade ago, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Edit: In addition, the nice thing is that this would allow the state to spend more in years when the economy sucks (that is, run deficits) because surpluses would build during the good years. In other words, it would allow for fiscal flexibility when needed, while not allowing such “flexibility” to grow ad infinitum.[/quote]

I think that it’s a great idea.

[briansd1]

[quote=davelj]I think I have a better idea.

Just pass a ballot proposition that limits the increase in state spending each year to the following formula:

CPI + (Estimated) Population Change (%)

It’s not perfect, but it would essentially keep state spending per capita constant in real dollars (roughly, that is). Had we done this a decade ago, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Edit: In addition, the nice thing is that this would allow the state to spend more in years when the economy sucks (that is, run deficits) because surpluses would build during the good years. In other words, it would allow for fiscal flexibility when needed, while not allowing such “flexibility” to grow ad infinitum.[/quote]

I think that it’s a great idea.

[briansd1]

[quote=davelj]I think I have a better idea.

Just pass a ballot proposition that limits the increase in state spending each year to the following formula:

CPI + (Estimated) Population Change (%)

It’s not perfect, but it would essentially keep state spending per capita constant in real dollars (roughly, that is). Had we done this a decade ago, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Edit: In addition, the nice thing is that this would allow the state to spend more in years when the economy sucks (that is, run deficits) because surpluses would build during the good years. In other words, it would allow for fiscal flexibility when needed, while not allowing such “flexibility” to grow ad infinitum.[/quote]

I think that it’s a great idea.

[all]

[quote=PlnrBoy]some examples: found most private jobs on Monster in California (since we were talking about CA workers) The Public jobs are from San Diego City.

Water Systems Technician I $2,553 – 3,035 /mo
Couldn’t find a private equivalent

Public Accountant I: $3,719 – 4,520 /mo (44,628- 54,240)
Private Accountant: most starting at 55-65,000 a year

Public Junior Engineer-Civil $4,181 – 5,063 /mo (50- 60,000)
Private Civil : found some at 65,000 and up a year

Solid Waste Inspector: $3,564 – 4,289 /mo
Private Plumber: a crap load more than that.

Police Records Data Specialist $2,682 – 3,247 /mo (32-39,000)
Private Record’s Management: 42-60,000 a year

Fire Helicopter Pilot $5,934 – 7,183 /mo (71-86,000 a year)
Private Helo Pilot: 80-125,000 a year starting[/quote]

It is not that simple. You would need to include intangibles like job stability and tangibles (medical, retirement plan, vacation days, sick days, paid training, etc)

Very few private companies will keep you on payroll for 30 years and then give you 90% of your highest salary for the rest of the life while taking 0% contribution.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/photos/2009/oct/05/64605/

There are some nice jobs on the private side, but they often come with very low job stability and require specific advanced skills that take time and money to acquire and can become obsolete in few years.

[all]

[quote=PlnrBoy]some examples: found most private jobs on Monster in California (since we were talking about CA workers) The Public jobs are from San Diego City.

Water Systems Technician I $2,553 – 3,035 /mo
Couldn’t find a private equivalent

Public Accountant I: $3,719 – 4,520 /mo (44,628- 54,240)
Private Accountant: most starting at 55-65,000 a year

Public Junior Engineer-Civil $4,181 – 5,063 /mo (50- 60,000)
Private Civil : found some at 65,000 and up a year

Solid Waste Inspector: $3,564 – 4,289 /mo
Private Plumber: a crap load more than that.

Police Records Data Specialist $2,682 – 3,247 /mo (32-39,000)
Private Record’s Management: 42-60,000 a year

Fire Helicopter Pilot $5,934 – 7,183 /mo (71-86,000 a year)
Private Helo Pilot: 80-125,000 a year starting[/quote]

It is not that simple. You would need to include intangibles like job stability and tangibles (medical, retirement plan, vacation days, sick days, paid training, etc)

Very few private companies will keep you on payroll for 30 years and then give you 90% of your highest salary for the rest of the life while taking 0% contribution.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/photos/2009/oct/05/64605/

There are some nice jobs on the private side, but they often come with very low job stability and require specific advanced skills that take time and money to acquire and can become obsolete in few years.

[all]

[quote=PlnrBoy]some examples: found most private jobs on Monster in California (since we were talking about CA workers) The Public jobs are from San Diego City.

Water Systems Technician I $2,553 – 3,035 /mo
Couldn’t find a private equivalent

Public Accountant I: $3,719 – 4,520 /mo (44,628- 54,240)
Private Accountant: most starting at 55-65,000 a year

Public Junior Engineer-Civil $4,181 – 5,063 /mo (50- 60,000)
Private Civil : found some at 65,000 and up a year

Solid Waste Inspector: $3,564 – 4,289 /mo
Private Plumber: a crap load more than that.

Police Records Data Specialist $2,682 – 3,247 /mo (32-39,000)
Private Record’s Management: 42-60,000 a year

Fire Helicopter Pilot $5,934 – 7,183 /mo (71-86,000 a year)
Private Helo Pilot: 80-125,000 a year starting[/quote]

It is not that simple. You would need to include intangibles like job stability and tangibles (medical, retirement plan, vacation days, sick days, paid training, etc)

Very few private companies will keep you on payroll for 30 years and then give you 90% of your highest salary for the rest of the life while taking 0% contribution.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/photos/2009/oct/05/64605/

There are some nice jobs on the private side, but they often come with very low job stability and require specific advanced skills that take time and money to acquire and can become obsolete in few years.

[all]

[quote=PlnrBoy]some examples: found most private jobs on Monster in California (since we were talking about CA workers) The Public jobs are from San Diego City.

Water Systems Technician I $2,553 – 3,035 /mo
Couldn’t find a private equivalent

Public Accountant I: $3,719 – 4,520 /mo (44,628- 54,240)
Private Accountant: most starting at 55-65,000 a year

Public Junior Engineer-Civil $4,181 – 5,063 /mo (50- 60,000)
Private Civil : found some at 65,000 and up a year

Solid Waste Inspector: $3,564 – 4,289 /mo
Private Plumber: a crap load more than that.

Police Records Data Specialist $2,682 – 3,247 /mo (32-39,000)
Private Record’s Management: 42-60,000 a year

Fire Helicopter Pilot $5,934 – 7,183 /mo (71-86,000 a year)
Private Helo Pilot: 80-125,000 a year starting[/quote]

It is not that simple. You would need to include intangibles like job stability and tangibles (medical, retirement plan, vacation days, sick days, paid training, etc)

Very few private companies will keep you on payroll for 30 years and then give you 90% of your highest salary for the rest of the life while taking 0% contribution.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/photos/2009/oct/05/64605/

There are some nice jobs on the private side, but they often come with very low job stability and require specific advanced skills that take time and money to acquire and can become obsolete in few years.

[all]

[quote=PlnrBoy]some examples: found most private jobs on Monster in California (since we were talking about CA workers) The Public jobs are from San Diego City.

Water Systems Technician I $2,553 – 3,035 /mo
Couldn’t find a private equivalent

Public Accountant I: $3,719 – 4,520 /mo (44,628- 54,240)
Private Accountant: most starting at 55-65,000 a year

Public Junior Engineer-Civil $4,181 – 5,063 /mo (50- 60,000)
Private Civil : found some at 65,000 and up a year

Solid Waste Inspector: $3,564 – 4,289 /mo
Private Plumber: a crap load more than that.

Police Records Data Specialist $2,682 – 3,247 /mo (32-39,000)
Private Record’s Management: 42-60,000 a year

Fire Helicopter Pilot $5,934 – 7,183 /mo (71-86,000 a year)
Private Helo Pilot: 80-125,000 a year starting[/quote]

It is not that simple. You would need to include intangibles like job stability and tangibles (medical, retirement plan, vacation days, sick days, paid training, etc)

Very few private companies will keep you on payroll for 30 years and then give you 90% of your highest salary for the rest of the life while taking 0% contribution.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/photos/2009/oct/05/64605/

There are some nice jobs on the private side, but they often come with very low job stability and require specific advanced skills that take time and money to acquire and can become obsolete in few years.

[DWCAP]

[quote=Aecetia]Brian-
Here is the impact of the non residents on the State budget: taken from an article in the Sunday’s San Diego Union “even a modest “10% false registration rate, … would be 4,200 students at a $10,800 average cost per student, or more than $45 million per year.”

They are not illegals. They live in Mexico and get driven up here to attend school for free. It all adds up and costs the California tax payers, causes increases in work load for teachers and increased class size, etc. It is a problem because the school officials refuse to enforce residence requirements. More waste, fraud and abuse.[/quote]

I am shocked this thread didnt become as explosive as earlier threads did. I read through last night and said to myself “read this one tomorrow, itll be crazy!”. Stangly enough, it wasnt. Pat on the back to the piggs.

Aecetia I totally get where you are coming from. I read an article about this in Imperial County and I was just flabbergasted. It is basically an eduaction subsidy to Mexico. Parents work, pay taxes, and vote in Mexico, but send their kids to school in California. They just walk across the border. I think the reason most people missed what you are saying is that this only happens in Southern San Diego and Imperial Counties. Everywhere else is just too far away to make it work. Illegal immigration is a totally different problem.

As for public employees pay, and cutting it. Eh, the vast majority of public employees dont get rich on their pay. The difference is the benifits and the job security. Id rather vote on a requirment that

1) All officers (ie Lt’s and Captns and district superviors etc) be considered management and not elegable for pensions and the “front line” benifits. They can keep what they have, but no more. These guys are paper pushers now, not front line personal. I have a feeling the increadable growth/demand in costs would slow when managment, ie those overseeing the money, dont also get to partake.

2) All pension/benifit/wage costs must be fully paid for each year and all contracts come up for negotiation every 2-4 years exactly 2 months before November elections. No deferring costs to the future. Lets see how many boards of supervisors wanna agree to increases when they gotta turn around and face the voters with tax increases.

[DWCAP]

[quote=Aecetia]Brian-
Here is the impact of the non residents on the State budget: taken from an article in the Sunday’s San Diego Union “even a modest “10% false registration rate, … would be 4,200 students at a $10,800 average cost per student, or more than $45 million per year.”

They are not illegals. They live in Mexico and get driven up here to attend school for free. It all adds up and costs the California tax payers, causes increases in work load for teachers and increased class size, etc. It is a problem because the school officials refuse to enforce residence requirements. More waste, fraud and abuse.[/quote]

I am shocked this thread didnt become as explosive as earlier threads did. I read through last night and said to myself “read this one tomorrow, itll be crazy!”. Stangly enough, it wasnt. Pat on the back to the piggs.

Aecetia I totally get where you are coming from. I read an article about this in Imperial County and I was just flabbergasted. It is basically an eduaction subsidy to Mexico. Parents work, pay taxes, and vote in Mexico, but send their kids to school in California. They just walk across the border. I think the reason most people missed what you are saying is that this only happens in Southern San Diego and Imperial Counties. Everywhere else is just too far away to make it work. Illegal immigration is a totally different problem.

As for public employees pay, and cutting it. Eh, the vast majority of public employees dont get rich on their pay. The difference is the benifits and the job security. Id rather vote on a requirment that

1) All officers (ie Lt’s and Captns and district superviors etc) be considered management and not elegable for pensions and the “front line” benifits. They can keep what they have, but no more. These guys are paper pushers now, not front line personal. I have a feeling the increadable growth/demand in costs would slow when managment, ie those overseeing the money, dont also get to partake.

2) All pension/benifit/wage costs must be fully paid for each year and all contracts come up for negotiation every 2-4 years exactly 2 months before November elections. No deferring costs to the future. Lets see how many boards of supervisors wanna agree to increases when they gotta turn around and face the voters with tax increases.

[DWCAP]

[quote=Aecetia]Brian-
Here is the impact of the non residents on the State budget: taken from an article in the Sunday’s San Diego Union “even a modest “10% false registration rate, … would be 4,200 students at a $10,800 average cost per student, or more than $45 million per year.”

They are not illegals. They live in Mexico and get driven up here to attend school for free. It all adds up and costs the California tax payers, causes increases in work load for teachers and increased class size, etc. It is a problem because the school officials refuse to enforce residence requirements. More waste, fraud and abuse.[/quote]

I am shocked this thread didnt become as explosive as earlier threads did. I read through last night and said to myself “read this one tomorrow, itll be crazy!”. Stangly enough, it wasnt. Pat on the back to the piggs.

Aecetia I totally get where you are coming from. I read an article about this in Imperial County and I was just flabbergasted. It is basically an eduaction subsidy to Mexico. Parents work, pay taxes, and vote in Mexico, but send their kids to school in California. They just walk across the border. I think the reason most people missed what you are saying is that this only happens in Southern San Diego and Imperial Counties. Everywhere else is just too far away to make it work. Illegal immigration is a totally different problem.

As for public employees pay, and cutting it. Eh, the vast majority of public employees dont get rich on their pay. The difference is the benifits and the job security. Id rather vote on a requirment that

1) All officers (ie Lt’s and Captns and district superviors etc) be considered management and not elegable for pensions and the “front line” benifits. They can keep what they have, but no more. These guys are paper pushers now, not front line personal. I have a feeling the increadable growth/demand in costs would slow when managment, ie those overseeing the money, dont also get to partake.

2) All pension/benifit/wage costs must be fully paid for each year and all contracts come up for negotiation every 2-4 years exactly 2 months before November elections. No deferring costs to the future. Lets see how many boards of supervisors wanna agree to increases when they gotta turn around and face the voters with tax increases.

[DWCAP]

[quote=Aecetia]Brian-
Here is the impact of the non residents on the State budget: taken from an article in the Sunday’s San Diego Union “even a modest “10% false registration rate, … would be 4,200 students at a $10,800 average cost per student, or more than $45 million per year.”

They are not illegals. They live in Mexico and get driven up here to attend school for free. It all adds up and costs the California tax payers, causes increases in work load for teachers and increased class size, etc. It is a problem because the school officials refuse to enforce residence requirements. More waste, fraud and abuse.[/quote]

I am shocked this thread didnt become as explosive as earlier threads did. I read through last night and said to myself “read this one tomorrow, itll be crazy!”. Stangly enough, it wasnt. Pat on the back to the piggs.

Aecetia I totally get where you are coming from. I read an article about this in Imperial County and I was just flabbergasted. It is basically an eduaction subsidy to Mexico. Parents work, pay taxes, and vote in Mexico, but send their kids to school in California. They just walk across the border. I think the reason most people missed what you are saying is that this only happens in Southern San Diego and Imperial Counties. Everywhere else is just too far away to make it work. Illegal immigration is a totally different problem.

As for public employees pay, and cutting it. Eh, the vast majority of public employees dont get rich on their pay. The difference is the benifits and the job security. Id rather vote on a requirment that

1) All officers (ie Lt’s and Captns and district superviors etc) be considered management and not elegable for pensions and the “front line” benifits. They can keep what they have, but no more. These guys are paper pushers now, not front line personal. I have a feeling the increadable growth/demand in costs would slow when managment, ie those overseeing the money, dont also get to partake.

2) All pension/benifit/wage costs must be fully paid for each year and all contracts come up for negotiation every 2-4 years exactly 2 months before November elections. No deferring costs to the future. Lets see how many boards of supervisors wanna agree to increases when they gotta turn around and face the voters with tax increases.

[Author]

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