Bailout for Dummies – Part I

[CA renter]

AN wrote:

Although life is not fair and not everyone start out poor, that doesn’t meant they don’t deserve their money. My parents came to this country with nothing more than clothes on their back. They worked hard, save a lot, to give me the opportunities that they did have. I then in turn work hard to build on my family’s wealth to give my children the opportunities I never had. Although my children didn’t directly earned the money they got to start out with, their parents and grand parents earned that money. So I think they’re entitled to that money.
——————

Same story here…mom was a dirt-broke immigrant (grew up VERY poor during WWII in Austria) who worked her way up. Dad worked his way up after growing up on a chicken farm in Arkansas during the Great Depression. Can’t get much more broke than that! 😉 They both worked their way through college and lived exceedingly frugal lives so that their kids could have better lives than they did.

I am adamantly opposed to inheritance tax because that money was already taxed when it was originally earned. There is no new transaction when money is kept within the family.

OTOH, capital gains earned on this money should be taxed at a higher rate, or at least taxed at the same rate as labor. I personally favor a progressive tax because it is too easy to funnel money to the wealthiest people when they have tremendous, income-earning wealth. This creates imbalances in our economy that are NOT healthy for society at large.

Additionally, I’m opposed to “steeping-up” the cost basis of inherited assets. We need to pick one or the other: higher inheritance taxes OR keep the true cost basis.

Basically, the “wealth” that I rail against is the type gained via the mingling of politicians and corporatists. It is this kind of greed/wealth/power-seeking that is driving this country into the ground, IMHO.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
Basically, the “wealth” that I rail against is the type gained via the mingling of politicians and corporatists. It is this kind of greed/wealth/power-seeking that is driving this country into the ground, IMHO.[/quote]
You won’t have any objection from me for railing against people who cheat/lie/steal to acquire their wealth. But unfortunately, I think the politicians are in on the scam too, so, there’s not much we can do, except to play the game in the playing field that is in front of us.

My impression is that you think the majority of the people who are wealthy do not earn/deserve their wealth, and that’s where I disagree. I think the majority of the people earned their money w/out cheating/lying/stealing, either directly or was passed down to them from their parents, grand parents, great grand parents, etc.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
Basically, the “wealth” that I rail against is the type gained via the mingling of politicians and corporatists. It is this kind of greed/wealth/power-seeking that is driving this country into the ground, IMHO.[/quote]
You won’t have any objection from me for railing against people who cheat/lie/steal to acquire their wealth. But unfortunately, I think the politicians are in on the scam too, so, there’s not much we can do, except to play the game in the playing field that is in front of us.

My impression is that you think the majority of the people who are wealthy do not earn/deserve their wealth, and that’s where I disagree. I think the majority of the people earned their money w/out cheating/lying/stealing, either directly or was passed down to them from their parents, grand parents, great grand parents, etc.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
Basically, the “wealth” that I rail against is the type gained via the mingling of politicians and corporatists. It is this kind of greed/wealth/power-seeking that is driving this country into the ground, IMHO.[/quote]
You won’t have any objection from me for railing against people who cheat/lie/steal to acquire their wealth. But unfortunately, I think the politicians are in on the scam too, so, there’s not much we can do, except to play the game in the playing field that is in front of us.

My impression is that you think the majority of the people who are wealthy do not earn/deserve their wealth, and that’s where I disagree. I think the majority of the people earned their money w/out cheating/lying/stealing, either directly or was passed down to them from their parents, grand parents, great grand parents, etc.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
Basically, the “wealth” that I rail against is the type gained via the mingling of politicians and corporatists. It is this kind of greed/wealth/power-seeking that is driving this country into the ground, IMHO.[/quote]
You won’t have any objection from me for railing against people who cheat/lie/steal to acquire their wealth. But unfortunately, I think the politicians are in on the scam too, so, there’s not much we can do, except to play the game in the playing field that is in front of us.

My impression is that you think the majority of the people who are wealthy do not earn/deserve their wealth, and that’s where I disagree. I think the majority of the people earned their money w/out cheating/lying/stealing, either directly or was passed down to them from their parents, grand parents, great grand parents, etc.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
Basically, the “wealth” that I rail against is the type gained via the mingling of politicians and corporatists. It is this kind of greed/wealth/power-seeking that is driving this country into the ground, IMHO.[/quote]
You won’t have any objection from me for railing against people who cheat/lie/steal to acquire their wealth. But unfortunately, I think the politicians are in on the scam too, so, there’s not much we can do, except to play the game in the playing field that is in front of us.

My impression is that you think the majority of the people who are wealthy do not earn/deserve their wealth, and that’s where I disagree. I think the majority of the people earned their money w/out cheating/lying/stealing, either directly or was passed down to them from their parents, grand parents, great grand parents, etc.

[Coronita]

[quote=paramount]Here’s the bottom line on the bailout’s IMO: where in the Constitution does it give permission for the US Government to take tax payers money and give it to corporations – even if it is a loan (which I doubt many will ever get fully paid back)?

We are all investors in GM and AIG whether you like it or not! That is just wrong and unconstitutional!

**6 No’s – No on Prop’s 1A-1F – they are tax increases**[/quote]

Yeah, like I said again, this administration and the previous one are pretty messed up. The problem with Obama and Geitner was that they royally fvcked up by not only objecting to those AIG bonuses, but actually encouraging and moving up the payout date. That’s where the outrage should be directed. What I think happaned is Geitner(having known how wall street works) knew if such bonuses were not offered, he and obama’s admin wouldn’t have been able to find anyone willing to untangle those AIG derivatives right when they needed to. Folks would have jumped ship left and right, work at an overseas bank,etc that isn’t subject to TARP etc. The fact that they allowed them as a tool for retaining people is pretty evident. But rather then fessing up what they did when the media caught wind of it, they redirected this to “oh my god, this is such a shocker. And redirected this to, oh my god, look at how much wall street people are paid”. And then some of the Democrat congressmen proposing legistation specifically targeting those bonus recipients. I’m sorry, our government is completely out of control.

The next worst thing is our government having the ability to dictate who should be CEO of companies. God almighty, I sure hope our banks and GM doesn’t end up like the U.S. Postal Service.

[Coronita]

[quote=paramount]Here’s the bottom line on the bailout’s IMO: where in the Constitution does it give permission for the US Government to take tax payers money and give it to corporations – even if it is a loan (which I doubt many will ever get fully paid back)?

We are all investors in GM and AIG whether you like it or not! That is just wrong and unconstitutional!

**6 No’s – No on Prop’s 1A-1F – they are tax increases**[/quote]

Yeah, like I said again, this administration and the previous one are pretty messed up. The problem with Obama and Geitner was that they royally fvcked up by not only objecting to those AIG bonuses, but actually encouraging and moving up the payout date. That’s where the outrage should be directed. What I think happaned is Geitner(having known how wall street works) knew if such bonuses were not offered, he and obama’s admin wouldn’t have been able to find anyone willing to untangle those AIG derivatives right when they needed to. Folks would have jumped ship left and right, work at an overseas bank,etc that isn’t subject to TARP etc. The fact that they allowed them as a tool for retaining people is pretty evident. But rather then fessing up what they did when the media caught wind of it, they redirected this to “oh my god, this is such a shocker. And redirected this to, oh my god, look at how much wall street people are paid”. And then some of the Democrat congressmen proposing legistation specifically targeting those bonus recipients. I’m sorry, our government is completely out of control.

The next worst thing is our government having the ability to dictate who should be CEO of companies. God almighty, I sure hope our banks and GM doesn’t end up like the U.S. Postal Service.

[Coronita]

[quote=paramount]Here’s the bottom line on the bailout’s IMO: where in the Constitution does it give permission for the US Government to take tax payers money and give it to corporations – even if it is a loan (which I doubt many will ever get fully paid back)?

We are all investors in GM and AIG whether you like it or not! That is just wrong and unconstitutional!

**6 No’s – No on Prop’s 1A-1F – they are tax increases**[/quote]

Yeah, like I said again, this administration and the previous one are pretty messed up. The problem with Obama and Geitner was that they royally fvcked up by not only objecting to those AIG bonuses, but actually encouraging and moving up the payout date. That’s where the outrage should be directed. What I think happaned is Geitner(having known how wall street works) knew if such bonuses were not offered, he and obama’s admin wouldn’t have been able to find anyone willing to untangle those AIG derivatives right when they needed to. Folks would have jumped ship left and right, work at an overseas bank,etc that isn’t subject to TARP etc. The fact that they allowed them as a tool for retaining people is pretty evident. But rather then fessing up what they did when the media caught wind of it, they redirected this to “oh my god, this is such a shocker. And redirected this to, oh my god, look at how much wall street people are paid”. And then some of the Democrat congressmen proposing legistation specifically targeting those bonus recipients. I’m sorry, our government is completely out of control.

The next worst thing is our government having the ability to dictate who should be CEO of companies. God almighty, I sure hope our banks and GM doesn’t end up like the U.S. Postal Service.

[Coronita]

[quote=paramount]Here’s the bottom line on the bailout’s IMO: where in the Constitution does it give permission for the US Government to take tax payers money and give it to corporations – even if it is a loan (which I doubt many will ever get fully paid back)?

We are all investors in GM and AIG whether you like it or not! That is just wrong and unconstitutional!

**6 No’s – No on Prop’s 1A-1F – they are tax increases**[/quote]

Yeah, like I said again, this administration and the previous one are pretty messed up. The problem with Obama and Geitner was that they royally fvcked up by not only objecting to those AIG bonuses, but actually encouraging and moving up the payout date. That’s where the outrage should be directed. What I think happaned is Geitner(having known how wall street works) knew if such bonuses were not offered, he and obama’s admin wouldn’t have been able to find anyone willing to untangle those AIG derivatives right when they needed to. Folks would have jumped ship left and right, work at an overseas bank,etc that isn’t subject to TARP etc. The fact that they allowed them as a tool for retaining people is pretty evident. But rather then fessing up what they did when the media caught wind of it, they redirected this to “oh my god, this is such a shocker. And redirected this to, oh my god, look at how much wall street people are paid”. And then some of the Democrat congressmen proposing legistation specifically targeting those bonus recipients. I’m sorry, our government is completely out of control.

The next worst thing is our government having the ability to dictate who should be CEO of companies. God almighty, I sure hope our banks and GM doesn’t end up like the U.S. Postal Service.

[Coronita]

[quote=paramount]Here’s the bottom line on the bailout’s IMO: where in the Constitution does it give permission for the US Government to take tax payers money and give it to corporations – even if it is a loan (which I doubt many will ever get fully paid back)?

We are all investors in GM and AIG whether you like it or not! That is just wrong and unconstitutional!

**6 No’s – No on Prop’s 1A-1F – they are tax increases**[/quote]

Yeah, like I said again, this administration and the previous one are pretty messed up. The problem with Obama and Geitner was that they royally fvcked up by not only objecting to those AIG bonuses, but actually encouraging and moving up the payout date. That’s where the outrage should be directed. What I think happaned is Geitner(having known how wall street works) knew if such bonuses were not offered, he and obama’s admin wouldn’t have been able to find anyone willing to untangle those AIG derivatives right when they needed to. Folks would have jumped ship left and right, work at an overseas bank,etc that isn’t subject to TARP etc. The fact that they allowed them as a tool for retaining people is pretty evident. But rather then fessing up what they did when the media caught wind of it, they redirected this to “oh my god, this is such a shocker. And redirected this to, oh my god, look at how much wall street people are paid”. And then some of the Democrat congressmen proposing legistation specifically targeting those bonus recipients. I’m sorry, our government is completely out of control.

The next worst thing is our government having the ability to dictate who should be CEO of companies. God almighty, I sure hope our banks and GM doesn’t end up like the U.S. Postal Service.

[Author]

Posts