Backdoor to socialized medicine?

[meadandale]

[quote=flu]The issue I have with the current approach to what our government is doing is not because I’m opposed to helping people out in need. My idea of helping people that are in need is to give them the incentive to get out of their predicament. [/quote]

I think Ben Franklin said it best:

I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.

[Arraya]

That shit will not work in the future. We do not live on the frontier at the dawn of the industrial revolution with 80% of the population in food production(living off the land) and unlimited resources. That is not our world.

[Arraya]

That shit will not work in the future. We do not live on the frontier at the dawn of the industrial revolution with 80% of the population in food production(living off the land) and unlimited resources. That is not our world.

[Arraya]

That shit will not work in the future. We do not live on the frontier at the dawn of the industrial revolution with 80% of the population in food production(living off the land) and unlimited resources. That is not our world.

[Arraya]

That shit will not work in the future. We do not live on the frontier at the dawn of the industrial revolution with 80% of the population in food production(living off the land) and unlimited resources. That is not our world.

[Arraya]

That shit will not work in the future. We do not live on the frontier at the dawn of the industrial revolution with 80% of the population in food production(living off the land) and unlimited resources. That is not our world.

[briansd1]

flu,

First of all, I think that tax treatment should be fair in a proportional, progressive way.

For example, let’s say a company provides $1,000 worth of insurance benefits to a low level employee, untaxed to the employee.

That same company provides a manager $10,000 worth of insurance. Why should that manager get $10,000 worth of compensation UNTAXED? The Cadillac plan should be taxed at $9,000 in my opinion.

Don’t you see the tax fairness issue?

flu, you’re blinded by your ideology. You won’t consider the merits of the Health Care Bill because you’re opposed of the expansion of social benefits. Period.

I think that it’s easy to oppose benefits to the poor who don’t vote. It’s easy to step upon those who have little.

But we are only spending $100 billion per year on this plan. In the second decade we are estimated to save $100 billion per year.

We can definitely find $100 billion to spend on a program that defines the character of our nation.

Here on Piggington we analyze everything that affects housing. You should similarly look at the provisions of the bill and look at the merits of the bill before dismissing it as bad government intrusion.

As far as the guiding hand of government is concerned, countries such as Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, China and Germany have governments that are intimately involved (from creating national corporate champions to monetary policy) in their economies; and they are very successful.

They are our competitors. If government involvement is so bad, as you claim, then we have nothing to worry about because our competitors are sure to fail before long.

[briansd1]

flu,

First of all, I think that tax treatment should be fair in a proportional, progressive way.

For example, let’s say a company provides $1,000 worth of insurance benefits to a low level employee, untaxed to the employee.

That same company provides a manager $10,000 worth of insurance. Why should that manager get $10,000 worth of compensation UNTAXED? The Cadillac plan should be taxed at $9,000 in my opinion.

Don’t you see the tax fairness issue?

flu, you’re blinded by your ideology. You won’t consider the merits of the Health Care Bill because you’re opposed of the expansion of social benefits. Period.

I think that it’s easy to oppose benefits to the poor who don’t vote. It’s easy to step upon those who have little.

But we are only spending $100 billion per year on this plan. In the second decade we are estimated to save $100 billion per year.

We can definitely find $100 billion to spend on a program that defines the character of our nation.

Here on Piggington we analyze everything that affects housing. You should similarly look at the provisions of the bill and look at the merits of the bill before dismissing it as bad government intrusion.

As far as the guiding hand of government is concerned, countries such as Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, China and Germany have governments that are intimately involved (from creating national corporate champions to monetary policy) in their economies; and they are very successful.

They are our competitors. If government involvement is so bad, as you claim, then we have nothing to worry about because our competitors are sure to fail before long.

[briansd1]

flu,

First of all, I think that tax treatment should be fair in a proportional, progressive way.

For example, let’s say a company provides $1,000 worth of insurance benefits to a low level employee, untaxed to the employee.

That same company provides a manager $10,000 worth of insurance. Why should that manager get $10,000 worth of compensation UNTAXED? The Cadillac plan should be taxed at $9,000 in my opinion.

Don’t you see the tax fairness issue?

flu, you’re blinded by your ideology. You won’t consider the merits of the Health Care Bill because you’re opposed of the expansion of social benefits. Period.

I think that it’s easy to oppose benefits to the poor who don’t vote. It’s easy to step upon those who have little.

But we are only spending $100 billion per year on this plan. In the second decade we are estimated to save $100 billion per year.

We can definitely find $100 billion to spend on a program that defines the character of our nation.

Here on Piggington we analyze everything that affects housing. You should similarly look at the provisions of the bill and look at the merits of the bill before dismissing it as bad government intrusion.

As far as the guiding hand of government is concerned, countries such as Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, China and Germany have governments that are intimately involved (from creating national corporate champions to monetary policy) in their economies; and they are very successful.

They are our competitors. If government involvement is so bad, as you claim, then we have nothing to worry about because our competitors are sure to fail before long.

[briansd1]

flu,

First of all, I think that tax treatment should be fair in a proportional, progressive way.

For example, let’s say a company provides $1,000 worth of insurance benefits to a low level employee, untaxed to the employee.

That same company provides a manager $10,000 worth of insurance. Why should that manager get $10,000 worth of compensation UNTAXED? The Cadillac plan should be taxed at $9,000 in my opinion.

Don’t you see the tax fairness issue?

flu, you’re blinded by your ideology. You won’t consider the merits of the Health Care Bill because you’re opposed of the expansion of social benefits. Period.

I think that it’s easy to oppose benefits to the poor who don’t vote. It’s easy to step upon those who have little.

But we are only spending $100 billion per year on this plan. In the second decade we are estimated to save $100 billion per year.

We can definitely find $100 billion to spend on a program that defines the character of our nation.

Here on Piggington we analyze everything that affects housing. You should similarly look at the provisions of the bill and look at the merits of the bill before dismissing it as bad government intrusion.

As far as the guiding hand of government is concerned, countries such as Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, China and Germany have governments that are intimately involved (from creating national corporate champions to monetary policy) in their economies; and they are very successful.

They are our competitors. If government involvement is so bad, as you claim, then we have nothing to worry about because our competitors are sure to fail before long.

[briansd1]

flu,

First of all, I think that tax treatment should be fair in a proportional, progressive way.

For example, let’s say a company provides $1,000 worth of insurance benefits to a low level employee, untaxed to the employee.

That same company provides a manager $10,000 worth of insurance. Why should that manager get $10,000 worth of compensation UNTAXED? The Cadillac plan should be taxed at $9,000 in my opinion.

Don’t you see the tax fairness issue?

flu, you’re blinded by your ideology. You won’t consider the merits of the Health Care Bill because you’re opposed of the expansion of social benefits. Period.

I think that it’s easy to oppose benefits to the poor who don’t vote. It’s easy to step upon those who have little.

But we are only spending $100 billion per year on this plan. In the second decade we are estimated to save $100 billion per year.

We can definitely find $100 billion to spend on a program that defines the character of our nation.

Here on Piggington we analyze everything that affects housing. You should similarly look at the provisions of the bill and look at the merits of the bill before dismissing it as bad government intrusion.

As far as the guiding hand of government is concerned, countries such as Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, China and Germany have governments that are intimately involved (from creating national corporate champions to monetary policy) in their economies; and they are very successful.

They are our competitors. If government involvement is so bad, as you claim, then we have nothing to worry about because our competitors are sure to fail before long.

[briansd1]

flu, that $1 billion non-cash charge that AT&T is taking does not cost them anything right now. It’s actually an advantage because it’s saving them immediately $350 million in taxes (assume 35% tax rate).

It’s like depreciation on a rental property. You take a depreciation write-off to reduce your income this year. It’s not costing you any cash.

Sure, in the future you have to spend money to maintain your property, but immediately, that depreciation deduction has no real economic impact.

[briansd1]

flu, that $1 billion non-cash charge that AT&T is taking does not cost them anything right now. It’s actually an advantage because it’s saving them immediately $350 million in taxes (assume 35% tax rate).

It’s like depreciation on a rental property. You take a depreciation write-off to reduce your income this year. It’s not costing you any cash.

Sure, in the future you have to spend money to maintain your property, but immediately, that depreciation deduction has no real economic impact.

[briansd1]

flu, that $1 billion non-cash charge that AT&T is taking does not cost them anything right now. It’s actually an advantage because it’s saving them immediately $350 million in taxes (assume 35% tax rate).

It’s like depreciation on a rental property. You take a depreciation write-off to reduce your income this year. It’s not costing you any cash.

Sure, in the future you have to spend money to maintain your property, but immediately, that depreciation deduction has no real economic impact.

[briansd1]

flu, that $1 billion non-cash charge that AT&T is taking does not cost them anything right now. It’s actually an advantage because it’s saving them immediately $350 million in taxes (assume 35% tax rate).

It’s like depreciation on a rental property. You take a depreciation write-off to reduce your income this year. It’s not costing you any cash.

Sure, in the future you have to spend money to maintain your property, but immediately, that depreciation deduction has no real economic impact.

[Author]

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