Backdoor to socialized medicine?

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]flu, if Taiwan can do it, why can’t we?

In 1949 when the KMT fled to Taiwan, that island was an economy backwater.

I don’t think that businesses are too worried about the new health care bill. The stock market moved up in response to the passage of the bill.

I understand that small businesses are having a hard time because of lack of sales. But it’s not because of health care reform that’s not been implemented yet.[/quote]

What part of “The U.S. government is fiscally broke (IE have no money) versus the Chinese and Taiwanese government have huge surpluses” do you not understand. Let’s do some investigation, but I’m willing to bet money that the Chinese and Taiwanese government do not nearly pass these “costs” along to businesses.

BTW: most tech companies in asia I work with are on 6 day to 7 day work weeks, if you want to talk about productivity. Also, I think most americans would probably object to a 6-7 work weeks.
That’s what we’re facing in the U.S in terms of cost structures. You add that up, maybe you can start to understand why while this bill isn’t the only issue driving up cost, anything that is driving up cost doesn’t help us to be more competitive.

[briansd1]

[quote=flu] while this bill isn’t the only issue driving up cost, anything that is driving up cost doesn’t help us to be more competitive.[/quote]

I can accept that.

But if we recognize that health care is a priority, we can work together to reduce business costs in other ways.

We’re talking about $100 billion per year here, and all the costs are not borne by small businesses.

[briansd1]

[quote=flu] while this bill isn’t the only issue driving up cost, anything that is driving up cost doesn’t help us to be more competitive.[/quote]

I can accept that.

But if we recognize that health care is a priority, we can work together to reduce business costs in other ways.

We’re talking about $100 billion per year here, and all the costs are not borne by small businesses.

[briansd1]

[quote=flu] while this bill isn’t the only issue driving up cost, anything that is driving up cost doesn’t help us to be more competitive.[/quote]

I can accept that.

But if we recognize that health care is a priority, we can work together to reduce business costs in other ways.

We’re talking about $100 billion per year here, and all the costs are not borne by small businesses.

[briansd1]

[quote=flu] while this bill isn’t the only issue driving up cost, anything that is driving up cost doesn’t help us to be more competitive.[/quote]

I can accept that.

But if we recognize that health care is a priority, we can work together to reduce business costs in other ways.

We’re talking about $100 billion per year here, and all the costs are not borne by small businesses.

[briansd1]

[quote=flu] while this bill isn’t the only issue driving up cost, anything that is driving up cost doesn’t help us to be more competitive.[/quote]

I can accept that.

But if we recognize that health care is a priority, we can work together to reduce business costs in other ways.

We’re talking about $100 billion per year here, and all the costs are not borne by small businesses.

[sreeb]

[quote=Hobie]For me the stock market is not a good measure for good legislation. After all the insurance companies got everything they wanted and are riding the wave. Soon, this tide will turn and they will be in trouble.

Here is a stock market example: Jack in the Box has grown 20% YTD while Qualcomm, is down about -10%. Doesn’t make sense. Burgers outpaces technology??[/quote]

It makes sense. The high tech business can be exported and must compete globally. The burger business can’t and doesn’t.

[sreeb]

[quote=Hobie]For me the stock market is not a good measure for good legislation. After all the insurance companies got everything they wanted and are riding the wave. Soon, this tide will turn and they will be in trouble.

Here is a stock market example: Jack in the Box has grown 20% YTD while Qualcomm, is down about -10%. Doesn’t make sense. Burgers outpaces technology??[/quote]

It makes sense. The high tech business can be exported and must compete globally. The burger business can’t and doesn’t.

[sreeb]

[quote=Hobie]For me the stock market is not a good measure for good legislation. After all the insurance companies got everything they wanted and are riding the wave. Soon, this tide will turn and they will be in trouble.

Here is a stock market example: Jack in the Box has grown 20% YTD while Qualcomm, is down about -10%. Doesn’t make sense. Burgers outpaces technology??[/quote]

It makes sense. The high tech business can be exported and must compete globally. The burger business can’t and doesn’t.

[sreeb]

[quote=Hobie]For me the stock market is not a good measure for good legislation. After all the insurance companies got everything they wanted and are riding the wave. Soon, this tide will turn and they will be in trouble.

Here is a stock market example: Jack in the Box has grown 20% YTD while Qualcomm, is down about -10%. Doesn’t make sense. Burgers outpaces technology??[/quote]

It makes sense. The high tech business can be exported and must compete globally. The burger business can’t and doesn’t.

[sreeb]

[quote=Hobie]For me the stock market is not a good measure for good legislation. After all the insurance companies got everything they wanted and are riding the wave. Soon, this tide will turn and they will be in trouble.

Here is a stock market example: Jack in the Box has grown 20% YTD while Qualcomm, is down about -10%. Doesn’t make sense. Burgers outpaces technology??[/quote]

It makes sense. The high tech business can be exported and must compete globally. The burger business can’t and doesn’t.

[Jim Jones]

[quote=flu]Don’t say folks didn’t warn you…If you’re still in the workforce, good luck moving forward..It’s going to get a lot more competitive with a lot fewer people employed

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/businesses-react-to-rising-cost-of-obamacare-they%27re-cutting-benefits-450638.html?tickers=mdt,cat,vz,xlv,ixj,^dji,^gspc&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They’re Cutting Benefits
Posted Mar 26, 2010 09:32am EDT by Henry Blodget in Healthcare Information, Recession
Related: mdt, cat, vz, xlv, ixj, ^dji, ^gspc

Remember the part in the ObamaCare pitch when they said if you like your current healthcare, it won’t change?

Turns out it might.

Companies are already announcing that their healthcare premium costs are going through the roof. Some are responding by firing people. Some are cutting benefits. And some are presumably eating it.

But costs they are rising.

A few examples from the WSJ:
— Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
— Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
— Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.

So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.[/quote]

Looks the like regulations brought about by the Sarbanes Oxley Act are going to put a lot of initial pressure on the legislation as big corporations begin to write down the increased costs immediately as they are required to under law.

I wonder if the big corporations will begin to dump retirees as a threat to the administration to alter the legislation or if that was part of the initial design by the Democrats; to shift as many people as possible onto the publicly subsidized roles.

IMHO this legislation was all about creating a system that once in place will be impossible for the opposition to alter as it will be a bedrock benefit for the population. I’ve lived in 3 different socialized countries and the conservatives cannot even utter the words “NHS” or “National Heath System” without loosing voters.

Businessweek.com has a good story on it:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-26/at-t-to-take-1-billion-charge-on-health-care-reform-update1-.html

[Jim Jones]

[quote=flu]Don’t say folks didn’t warn you…If you’re still in the workforce, good luck moving forward..It’s going to get a lot more competitive with a lot fewer people employed

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/businesses-react-to-rising-cost-of-obamacare-they%27re-cutting-benefits-450638.html?tickers=mdt,cat,vz,xlv,ixj,^dji,^gspc&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They’re Cutting Benefits
Posted Mar 26, 2010 09:32am EDT by Henry Blodget in Healthcare Information, Recession
Related: mdt, cat, vz, xlv, ixj, ^dji, ^gspc

Remember the part in the ObamaCare pitch when they said if you like your current healthcare, it won’t change?

Turns out it might.

Companies are already announcing that their healthcare premium costs are going through the roof. Some are responding by firing people. Some are cutting benefits. And some are presumably eating it.

But costs they are rising.

A few examples from the WSJ:
— Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
— Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
— Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.

So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.[/quote]

Looks the like regulations brought about by the Sarbanes Oxley Act are going to put a lot of initial pressure on the legislation as big corporations begin to write down the increased costs immediately as they are required to under law.

I wonder if the big corporations will begin to dump retirees as a threat to the administration to alter the legislation or if that was part of the initial design by the Democrats; to shift as many people as possible onto the publicly subsidized roles.

IMHO this legislation was all about creating a system that once in place will be impossible for the opposition to alter as it will be a bedrock benefit for the population. I’ve lived in 3 different socialized countries and the conservatives cannot even utter the words “NHS” or “National Heath System” without loosing voters.

Businessweek.com has a good story on it:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-26/at-t-to-take-1-billion-charge-on-health-care-reform-update1-.html

[Jim Jones]

[quote=flu]Don’t say folks didn’t warn you…If you’re still in the workforce, good luck moving forward..It’s going to get a lot more competitive with a lot fewer people employed

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/businesses-react-to-rising-cost-of-obamacare-they%27re-cutting-benefits-450638.html?tickers=mdt,cat,vz,xlv,ixj,^dji,^gspc&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They’re Cutting Benefits
Posted Mar 26, 2010 09:32am EDT by Henry Blodget in Healthcare Information, Recession
Related: mdt, cat, vz, xlv, ixj, ^dji, ^gspc

Remember the part in the ObamaCare pitch when they said if you like your current healthcare, it won’t change?

Turns out it might.

Companies are already announcing that their healthcare premium costs are going through the roof. Some are responding by firing people. Some are cutting benefits. And some are presumably eating it.

But costs they are rising.

A few examples from the WSJ:
— Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
— Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
— Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.

So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.[/quote]

Looks the like regulations brought about by the Sarbanes Oxley Act are going to put a lot of initial pressure on the legislation as big corporations begin to write down the increased costs immediately as they are required to under law.

I wonder if the big corporations will begin to dump retirees as a threat to the administration to alter the legislation or if that was part of the initial design by the Democrats; to shift as many people as possible onto the publicly subsidized roles.

IMHO this legislation was all about creating a system that once in place will be impossible for the opposition to alter as it will be a bedrock benefit for the population. I’ve lived in 3 different socialized countries and the conservatives cannot even utter the words “NHS” or “National Heath System” without loosing voters.

Businessweek.com has a good story on it:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-26/at-t-to-take-1-billion-charge-on-health-care-reform-update1-.html

[Jim Jones]

[quote=flu]Don’t say folks didn’t warn you…If you’re still in the workforce, good luck moving forward..It’s going to get a lot more competitive with a lot fewer people employed

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/businesses-react-to-rising-cost-of-obamacare-they%27re-cutting-benefits-450638.html?tickers=mdt,cat,vz,xlv,ixj,^dji,^gspc&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They’re Cutting Benefits
Posted Mar 26, 2010 09:32am EDT by Henry Blodget in Healthcare Information, Recession
Related: mdt, cat, vz, xlv, ixj, ^dji, ^gspc

Remember the part in the ObamaCare pitch when they said if you like your current healthcare, it won’t change?

Turns out it might.

Companies are already announcing that their healthcare premium costs are going through the roof. Some are responding by firing people. Some are cutting benefits. And some are presumably eating it.

But costs they are rising.

A few examples from the WSJ:
— Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
— Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
— Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.

So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.[/quote]

Looks the like regulations brought about by the Sarbanes Oxley Act are going to put a lot of initial pressure on the legislation as big corporations begin to write down the increased costs immediately as they are required to under law.

I wonder if the big corporations will begin to dump retirees as a threat to the administration to alter the legislation or if that was part of the initial design by the Democrats; to shift as many people as possible onto the publicly subsidized roles.

IMHO this legislation was all about creating a system that once in place will be impossible for the opposition to alter as it will be a bedrock benefit for the population. I’ve lived in 3 different socialized countries and the conservatives cannot even utter the words “NHS” or “National Heath System” without loosing voters.

Businessweek.com has a good story on it:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-26/at-t-to-take-1-billion-charge-on-health-care-reform-update1-.html

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