Backdoor to socialized medicine?

[briansd1]

flu, btw, I was being facetious about house price drops. 😉

I’m just wondering if the Republicans who believe that Obama’s policies are so bad believe that house prices in Carmel Valley and Mira Mesa will hold up.

[briansd1]

meadandale, the health care bill includes Republican ideas. But the Party of NO said NO.

we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7077888.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

[briansd1]

meadandale, the health care bill includes Republican ideas. But the Party of NO said NO.

we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7077888.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

[briansd1]

meadandale, the health care bill includes Republican ideas. But the Party of NO said NO.

we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7077888.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

[briansd1]

meadandale, the health care bill includes Republican ideas. But the Party of NO said NO.

we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7077888.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

[briansd1]

meadandale, the health care bill includes Republican ideas. But the Party of NO said NO.

we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7077888.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]flu, btw, I was being facetious about house price drops. 😉

I’m just wondering if the Republicans who believe that Obama’s policies are so bad believe that house prices in Carmel Valley and Mira Mesa will hold up.[/quote]

Brian,

I think several of us (inclusive) are more concerned about the general health of the economy than housing prices at this point. Frankly, I don’t give a flying fvck if I see depreciation on my primary, so much as if I have the means of expanding my income through either my primary employment or my side business..And frankly during this economic times, my income has gone up. The idea of a bunch of unemployed folks on the street, high crime times, isn’t exactly what I look forward to. Nor do I look forward to an environment that ends up being every person for themselves. When push comes to shove and small/mid business owners or folks with hiring/firing decisions get get squeezed, it’s not going to be those people that gets hit initially… And while at least some of us who are thrown on the street do have the concept of savings and could probably survive maybe a few years….judging by the savings rate (or lack there of ) of most Americans, in most cases, putting more people on the street is going to be disasterous.

You can laugh all you want about folks paying mortgages taking an equity hit, and then losing a home because of joblessness. But like I said, unless you are financially independent already, you’re in the same boat. You don’t think you’re going to pay additional taxes/costs because you aren’t considered “rich” by the $200k/$250k rule? Sure..Again are you an employee? Companies aren’t to simply sit there say: “I’m just going to eat this health care cost”.. Guess what? No raises/maybe salary cuts and/or a pink slip. Yes, you didn’t pay for additional taxes. You’re paying for it indirectly through everything else. Good news though…Unemployment benefits are going to be extended. Hope it’s worth it. Why? Companies don’t care about you the employee. They only care about the bottom line/wallstreet targets, and estimates. It doesn’t matter how much “cash” a company is sitting on. Short of a government order to not fire anyone, the will do what it takes to meet those numbers, even in this economy. Employees are nothing more than a cost. You’re bent on thinking entities with “a lot of money” are simply going to just pay more and eat it…Companies aren’t.

Also, how do you plan on saving more while taxes going up, wages being stagnate during an economic downturn, competition for peers trying to go after your job because they are unemployed (heck, some would probably even be willing to work for half of your wage) and inevitable inflation and weakening of the U.S. dollar? Investments? Um, aren’t capital gains taxes going to be raised? Starting a business? Um, isn’t the cost of small business going up too? So, my friend, what are you going to do to see that you save more? Hope?

I feel bad for folks that are just starting out or within the first 12 years or their careers frankly..Because they won’t have the means to save as much as nearly as previous folks. They will be paying dearly for taxes up the noses, and they don’t even know what the future holds.

I don’t see how adding additional costs to companies already having issues turning profits in an already uncertain time will help create jobs. It’s economic suicide imho.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]flu, btw, I was being facetious about house price drops. 😉

I’m just wondering if the Republicans who believe that Obama’s policies are so bad believe that house prices in Carmel Valley and Mira Mesa will hold up.[/quote]

Brian,

I think several of us (inclusive) are more concerned about the general health of the economy than housing prices at this point. Frankly, I don’t give a flying fvck if I see depreciation on my primary, so much as if I have the means of expanding my income through either my primary employment or my side business..And frankly during this economic times, my income has gone up. The idea of a bunch of unemployed folks on the street, high crime times, isn’t exactly what I look forward to. Nor do I look forward to an environment that ends up being every person for themselves. When push comes to shove and small/mid business owners or folks with hiring/firing decisions get get squeezed, it’s not going to be those people that gets hit initially… And while at least some of us who are thrown on the street do have the concept of savings and could probably survive maybe a few years….judging by the savings rate (or lack there of ) of most Americans, in most cases, putting more people on the street is going to be disasterous.

You can laugh all you want about folks paying mortgages taking an equity hit, and then losing a home because of joblessness. But like I said, unless you are financially independent already, you’re in the same boat. You don’t think you’re going to pay additional taxes/costs because you aren’t considered “rich” by the $200k/$250k rule? Sure..Again are you an employee? Companies aren’t to simply sit there say: “I’m just going to eat this health care cost”.. Guess what? No raises/maybe salary cuts and/or a pink slip. Yes, you didn’t pay for additional taxes. You’re paying for it indirectly through everything else. Good news though…Unemployment benefits are going to be extended. Hope it’s worth it. Why? Companies don’t care about you the employee. They only care about the bottom line/wallstreet targets, and estimates. It doesn’t matter how much “cash” a company is sitting on. Short of a government order to not fire anyone, the will do what it takes to meet those numbers, even in this economy. Employees are nothing more than a cost. You’re bent on thinking entities with “a lot of money” are simply going to just pay more and eat it…Companies aren’t.

Also, how do you plan on saving more while taxes going up, wages being stagnate during an economic downturn, competition for peers trying to go after your job because they are unemployed (heck, some would probably even be willing to work for half of your wage) and inevitable inflation and weakening of the U.S. dollar? Investments? Um, aren’t capital gains taxes going to be raised? Starting a business? Um, isn’t the cost of small business going up too? So, my friend, what are you going to do to see that you save more? Hope?

I feel bad for folks that are just starting out or within the first 12 years or their careers frankly..Because they won’t have the means to save as much as nearly as previous folks. They will be paying dearly for taxes up the noses, and they don’t even know what the future holds.

I don’t see how adding additional costs to companies already having issues turning profits in an already uncertain time will help create jobs. It’s economic suicide imho.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]flu, btw, I was being facetious about house price drops. 😉

I’m just wondering if the Republicans who believe that Obama’s policies are so bad believe that house prices in Carmel Valley and Mira Mesa will hold up.[/quote]

Brian,

I think several of us (inclusive) are more concerned about the general health of the economy than housing prices at this point. Frankly, I don’t give a flying fvck if I see depreciation on my primary, so much as if I have the means of expanding my income through either my primary employment or my side business..And frankly during this economic times, my income has gone up. The idea of a bunch of unemployed folks on the street, high crime times, isn’t exactly what I look forward to. Nor do I look forward to an environment that ends up being every person for themselves. When push comes to shove and small/mid business owners or folks with hiring/firing decisions get get squeezed, it’s not going to be those people that gets hit initially… And while at least some of us who are thrown on the street do have the concept of savings and could probably survive maybe a few years….judging by the savings rate (or lack there of ) of most Americans, in most cases, putting more people on the street is going to be disasterous.

You can laugh all you want about folks paying mortgages taking an equity hit, and then losing a home because of joblessness. But like I said, unless you are financially independent already, you’re in the same boat. You don’t think you’re going to pay additional taxes/costs because you aren’t considered “rich” by the $200k/$250k rule? Sure..Again are you an employee? Companies aren’t to simply sit there say: “I’m just going to eat this health care cost”.. Guess what? No raises/maybe salary cuts and/or a pink slip. Yes, you didn’t pay for additional taxes. You’re paying for it indirectly through everything else. Good news though…Unemployment benefits are going to be extended. Hope it’s worth it. Why? Companies don’t care about you the employee. They only care about the bottom line/wallstreet targets, and estimates. It doesn’t matter how much “cash” a company is sitting on. Short of a government order to not fire anyone, the will do what it takes to meet those numbers, even in this economy. Employees are nothing more than a cost. You’re bent on thinking entities with “a lot of money” are simply going to just pay more and eat it…Companies aren’t.

Also, how do you plan on saving more while taxes going up, wages being stagnate during an economic downturn, competition for peers trying to go after your job because they are unemployed (heck, some would probably even be willing to work for half of your wage) and inevitable inflation and weakening of the U.S. dollar? Investments? Um, aren’t capital gains taxes going to be raised? Starting a business? Um, isn’t the cost of small business going up too? So, my friend, what are you going to do to see that you save more? Hope?

I feel bad for folks that are just starting out or within the first 12 years or their careers frankly..Because they won’t have the means to save as much as nearly as previous folks. They will be paying dearly for taxes up the noses, and they don’t even know what the future holds.

I don’t see how adding additional costs to companies already having issues turning profits in an already uncertain time will help create jobs. It’s economic suicide imho.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]flu, btw, I was being facetious about house price drops. 😉

I’m just wondering if the Republicans who believe that Obama’s policies are so bad believe that house prices in Carmel Valley and Mira Mesa will hold up.[/quote]

Brian,

I think several of us (inclusive) are more concerned about the general health of the economy than housing prices at this point. Frankly, I don’t give a flying fvck if I see depreciation on my primary, so much as if I have the means of expanding my income through either my primary employment or my side business..And frankly during this economic times, my income has gone up. The idea of a bunch of unemployed folks on the street, high crime times, isn’t exactly what I look forward to. Nor do I look forward to an environment that ends up being every person for themselves. When push comes to shove and small/mid business owners or folks with hiring/firing decisions get get squeezed, it’s not going to be those people that gets hit initially… And while at least some of us who are thrown on the street do have the concept of savings and could probably survive maybe a few years….judging by the savings rate (or lack there of ) of most Americans, in most cases, putting more people on the street is going to be disasterous.

You can laugh all you want about folks paying mortgages taking an equity hit, and then losing a home because of joblessness. But like I said, unless you are financially independent already, you’re in the same boat. You don’t think you’re going to pay additional taxes/costs because you aren’t considered “rich” by the $200k/$250k rule? Sure..Again are you an employee? Companies aren’t to simply sit there say: “I’m just going to eat this health care cost”.. Guess what? No raises/maybe salary cuts and/or a pink slip. Yes, you didn’t pay for additional taxes. You’re paying for it indirectly through everything else. Good news though…Unemployment benefits are going to be extended. Hope it’s worth it. Why? Companies don’t care about you the employee. They only care about the bottom line/wallstreet targets, and estimates. It doesn’t matter how much “cash” a company is sitting on. Short of a government order to not fire anyone, the will do what it takes to meet those numbers, even in this economy. Employees are nothing more than a cost. You’re bent on thinking entities with “a lot of money” are simply going to just pay more and eat it…Companies aren’t.

Also, how do you plan on saving more while taxes going up, wages being stagnate during an economic downturn, competition for peers trying to go after your job because they are unemployed (heck, some would probably even be willing to work for half of your wage) and inevitable inflation and weakening of the U.S. dollar? Investments? Um, aren’t capital gains taxes going to be raised? Starting a business? Um, isn’t the cost of small business going up too? So, my friend, what are you going to do to see that you save more? Hope?

I feel bad for folks that are just starting out or within the first 12 years or their careers frankly..Because they won’t have the means to save as much as nearly as previous folks. They will be paying dearly for taxes up the noses, and they don’t even know what the future holds.

I don’t see how adding additional costs to companies already having issues turning profits in an already uncertain time will help create jobs. It’s economic suicide imho.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]flu, btw, I was being facetious about house price drops. 😉

I’m just wondering if the Republicans who believe that Obama’s policies are so bad believe that house prices in Carmel Valley and Mira Mesa will hold up.[/quote]

Brian,

I think several of us (inclusive) are more concerned about the general health of the economy than housing prices at this point. Frankly, I don’t give a flying fvck if I see depreciation on my primary, so much as if I have the means of expanding my income through either my primary employment or my side business..And frankly during this economic times, my income has gone up. The idea of a bunch of unemployed folks on the street, high crime times, isn’t exactly what I look forward to. Nor do I look forward to an environment that ends up being every person for themselves. When push comes to shove and small/mid business owners or folks with hiring/firing decisions get get squeezed, it’s not going to be those people that gets hit initially… And while at least some of us who are thrown on the street do have the concept of savings and could probably survive maybe a few years….judging by the savings rate (or lack there of ) of most Americans, in most cases, putting more people on the street is going to be disasterous.

You can laugh all you want about folks paying mortgages taking an equity hit, and then losing a home because of joblessness. But like I said, unless you are financially independent already, you’re in the same boat. You don’t think you’re going to pay additional taxes/costs because you aren’t considered “rich” by the $200k/$250k rule? Sure..Again are you an employee? Companies aren’t to simply sit there say: “I’m just going to eat this health care cost”.. Guess what? No raises/maybe salary cuts and/or a pink slip. Yes, you didn’t pay for additional taxes. You’re paying for it indirectly through everything else. Good news though…Unemployment benefits are going to be extended. Hope it’s worth it. Why? Companies don’t care about you the employee. They only care about the bottom line/wallstreet targets, and estimates. It doesn’t matter how much “cash” a company is sitting on. Short of a government order to not fire anyone, the will do what it takes to meet those numbers, even in this economy. Employees are nothing more than a cost. You’re bent on thinking entities with “a lot of money” are simply going to just pay more and eat it…Companies aren’t.

Also, how do you plan on saving more while taxes going up, wages being stagnate during an economic downturn, competition for peers trying to go after your job because they are unemployed (heck, some would probably even be willing to work for half of your wage) and inevitable inflation and weakening of the U.S. dollar? Investments? Um, aren’t capital gains taxes going to be raised? Starting a business? Um, isn’t the cost of small business going up too? So, my friend, what are you going to do to see that you save more? Hope?

I feel bad for folks that are just starting out or within the first 12 years or their careers frankly..Because they won’t have the means to save as much as nearly as previous folks. They will be paying dearly for taxes up the noses, and they don’t even know what the future holds.

I don’t see how adding additional costs to companies already having issues turning profits in an already uncertain time will help create jobs. It’s economic suicide imho.

[briansd1]

flu, I don’t disagree that the US economy if facing great challenges but it’s not because of health care reform.

I actually believe that health care is part of the reforms that we need to building a more competitive economy.

Like ocrenter posted before, a single payer system such as they have in Taiwan is business friendly.

I’ve read ocrenter’s blog since the beginning and I agree with him on housing as well as on health care. 50% off or Year 2000 nominal house prices and a single payer health care system. Bravo!!

[briansd1]

flu, I don’t disagree that the US economy if facing great challenges but it’s not because of health care reform.

I actually believe that health care is part of the reforms that we need to building a more competitive economy.

Like ocrenter posted before, a single payer system such as they have in Taiwan is business friendly.

I’ve read ocrenter’s blog since the beginning and I agree with him on housing as well as on health care. 50% off or Year 2000 nominal house prices and a single payer health care system. Bravo!!

[briansd1]

flu, I don’t disagree that the US economy if facing great challenges but it’s not because of health care reform.

I actually believe that health care is part of the reforms that we need to building a more competitive economy.

Like ocrenter posted before, a single payer system such as they have in Taiwan is business friendly.

I’ve read ocrenter’s blog since the beginning and I agree with him on housing as well as on health care. 50% off or Year 2000 nominal house prices and a single payer health care system. Bravo!!

[briansd1]

flu, I don’t disagree that the US economy if facing great challenges but it’s not because of health care reform.

I actually believe that health care is part of the reforms that we need to building a more competitive economy.

Like ocrenter posted before, a single payer system such as they have in Taiwan is business friendly.

I’ve read ocrenter’s blog since the beginning and I agree with him on housing as well as on health care. 50% off or Year 2000 nominal house prices and a single payer health care system. Bravo!!

[Author]

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