Are federal workers overpaid? Avg 123k?? It’s insane!

[Coronita]

Look folks. If you haven’t noticed, government wastes money. It might not jive with your values or what you think is right/wrong, but there is very little you can do about it. You really think a bunch of minority ticked off people are going to effect change? You think the tea party movement is going to make a dent? Nope…

The only time change happens is when the majority of the people are ticked off and demand change…Guess what? Majority of americans probably WANT bailouts. Folks who are fiscally responsible (regardless of political affiliation) are the minorities in america. That’s why our savings rates is piss poor, and to some extent that’s why our country is piss in debt.
Screaming/kicking/etc ain’t going to do didly…

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.

The only time when all these bailouts will stop is either
(a) if the economy magically grows (not going to happen
(b) the funny money stops and we’re totally screwed, and the majority of folks have no food/clothing/and/or shelter. (which is going to take some time…Probably our kids are screwed, we probably won’t see it..Folks that don’t have kids have nothing to worry about..So spend away!!!) The majority of the collective “we” move in an a herd mentality, and the prevailing wind of the herd is “I want to get bailed out”…Herds don’t like minorities that scream the sky is falling and it’s bad…That’s just the fact of life..

It’s time to start putting plan B and C together for yourself… QED..

[briansd1]

[quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?

[briansd1]

[quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?

[briansd1]

[quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?

[briansd1]

[quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?

[briansd1]

[quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).

[EconProf]

This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.

[EconProf]

This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.

[EconProf]

This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.

[EconProf]

This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.

[Author]

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