Another reason to leave CA

[EconProf]

While many people are leaving CA because of its high cost of living, high taxes, lunatic government, etc., I predict a bigger factor in the future is TRAFFIC.
A few months ago I was in an outer suburb of Phoenix at 5:00 pm and had to drive to the opposite side of the city. Instead of taking the “belt” highway that surrounds Phoenix, I took the freeways going straight through town and never went below 50 MPH. Try doing that in any coastal CA city.

[spdrun]

The problem with living in Phoenix is that you have to deal with Phoenix people, climate, and dust 🙂 Also, you were going against the initial commute direction (towards the city) and only going with the commute after crossing the city.

[EconProf]

[quote=spdrun]The problem with living in Phoenix is that you have to deal with Phoenix people, climate, and dust 🙂 Also, you were going against the initial commute direction (towards the city) and only going with the commute after crossing the city.[/quote]
Please explain your second sentence.
In half an hour, at 50 MPH, I went from one (far) side of the city to the opposite side, a distance of about 25 miles.

[NeetaT]

I think it all boils down to the massive / alarming increase in the transfer of wealth from the private sector to the public sector. One example is property tax. Although it comes out to approximately 1.25% of 80% of the assessed value when you include assessments and voter approved bonds, the average property tax in San Diego, CA. is approximately $600.00 per month. On Average, if a person is paying $2,000.00 in rent, at least $500.00 of that rent is property tax baked into the rent. Now do you think for a minute that the government is going to lower the property tax percentage to lets say 1/2% of 80% of the assessed value to make housing more affordable? Not on your life! The government in CA is absolutely bent on doing whatever it can to add on new taxes and increase existing taxes. The transfer of wealth from the private sector to the public sector is what’s making people flee CA. The only reason that I am still in CA, is because my wife has a job that she can’t seem to get away from.

[EconProf]

[quote=NeetaT]I think it all boils down to the massive / alarming increase in the transfer of wealth from the private sector to the public sector. One example is property tax. Although it comes out to approximately 1.25% of 80% of the assessed value when you include assessments and voter approved bonds, the average property tax in San Diego, CA. is approximately $600.00 per month. On Average, if a person is paying $2,000.00 in rent, at least $500.00 of that rent is property tax baked into the rent. Now do you think for a minute that the government is going to lower the property tax percentage to lets say 1/2% of 80% of the assessed value to make housing more affordable? Not on your life! The government in CA is absolutely bent on doing whatever it can to add on new taxes and increase existing taxes. The transfer of wealth from the private sector to the public sector is what’s making people flee CA. The only reason that I am still in CA, is because my wife has a job that she can’t seem to get away from.[/quote]
I agree with your point that CA property taxes are high, and are one more reason to leave the state, although I could quibble with the numbers you present.
While Prop 13 limits property taxes to about 1.25% of property values and limits annual increases to 2% per year, Californians still pay more than the national average.
A $200,000 house in nearby states could cost about $600,000 in San Diego. A property tax of 2% of value there will cost $4000 per year. The same house in San Diego will pay $7500 per year in property taxes.
These numbers are approximate, of course. But the point remains that even with Prop 13 “protections”, Californians pay a lot in property taxes. And, BTW, Prop 13 is under attack and could well be altered in the years ahead.

[Escoguy]

http://uipi.com/new/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/UIPI-Comparative-Analysis-on-Real-Estate-Taxation-2013.pdf

Big picture, we really don’t have much to complain about.

For my property in California property tax is about 19% of my gross rental income.

Should go down over time as the property tax rises at 2% and rents likely faster.

Look at German property tax rates 2,6-3,5% by comparison along with 42% above 52K Euros or about $60K US for income taxes.

Bigger issue in US is how the money is spent. Public pensions are often concentrated in the hands a a few top insiders who can game the system.

[svelte]

In the 1970s my father, who is a staunch republican and very vocal critic of calif taxes, traffic, and politics, decided to put his money where his mouth was. He sold the house, changed jobs, and moved to the midwest that he spoke so fondly of.

He only lasted 3 years and once again sold his house, changed jobs, and returned to the same calif city that he left 3 years prior.

I respect him for chucking everything and being true to himself. I respect him even more for being able to admit when he was wrong.

I suspect many who leave cali reach the same fate. And if they don’t, glad they found their happiness. I’m all for people leaving. 🙂

[The-Shoveler]

What people don’t say much is that despite a large number of out migration, the emigration and birth death rate keep California growing at about 1500 people per-day.

There seems to not be enough people leaving.

[The-Shoveler]

I was reading an article where towns in Colorado and TX were complaining that they were becoming CA. LOL .

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=svelte]In the 1970s my father, who is a staunch republican and very vocal critic of calif taxes, traffic, and politics, decided to put his money where his mouth was. He sold the house, changed jobs, and moved to the midwest that he spoke so fondly of.

He only lasted 3 years and once again sold his house, changed jobs, and returned to the same calif city that he left 3 years prior.

I respect him for chucking everything and being true to himself. I respect him even more for being able to admit when he was wrong.

I suspect many who leave cali reach the same fate. And if they don’t, glad they found their happiness. I’m all for people leaving. :-)[/quote]

I also respect your father for admitting his error.

It’s very interesting that Republicans tend to move East. Economically, traffic and high house prices should be free market indication to them that California is desirable with more opportunities. I know quite few who have left. In fact, I know a family who, this year, sold a business and moved away. They simply couldn’t handle the competitive nature of California. They wanted to relax and retire, those lazy asses.
People whose core philosophy is hardwork and competition should not complain when more people come to cause more traffic and competition for resources. That’s the very time to put theory to work and up one’s game.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=The-Shoveler]What people don’t say much is that despite a large number of out migration, the emigration and birth death rate keep California growing at about 1500 people per-day.

There seems to not be enough people leaving.[/quote]

I also am all for people leaving. That helps to refresh the population.

And traffic is good. We need more traffic so urban planners density the cities and build public transport. I’ve heard people complain about traffic for ages, especially at UTC and Mission Valley. But San Diego is so much a better city today than decades ago.

[outtamojo]

Outer suberb…going the opposite way?

[EconProf]

[quote=The-Shoveler]What people don’t say much is that despite a large number of out migration, the emigration and birth death rate keep California growing at about 1500 people per-day.

There seems to not be enough people leaving.[/quote]
Shoveler: You are correct that the population of CA is still growing, despite more Californian’s moving out than other states’ residents moving in. The apparent exodus is more than offset by immigrants, legal and illegal, coming to California, plus our high birth rate (large Hispanic population).
But we are not growing by much. Here are the last one year’s population growth rate for CA compared to the states Californians may be moving to, according to WorldPopulationReview.com:

CA .61%
NV 1.96
AZ 1.53
WA 1.69
TX 1.41
OR 1.37

[spdrun]

EconProf — why is population growth in an already-crowded area a good thing?

[The-Shoveler]

Using Percentages is a little confusing.

In absolute population growth CA still beat most of those States (except maybe TX)

For OR 1.37 % of 4.1 million is a lot less than .61% of CA’s 39 million.

Same for WA 7.4 million and AZ 7 million.

IMO Over the long term CA (the worlds 5th largest economy) will continue grow population and GDP very fast.

[Author]

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