Aging population and housing

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]^^^
This is why we should allow more legal immigrants who are manual laborers — then they’d be subject ot the same minimum wage protections as anyone else in the country.

I don’t see a labor surplus in that part of the economy.[/quote]

Only if there is a true shortage of labor. And I totally agree that all immigrants who come here should have some form of legal status, but not necessarily the right to work nor the right to public services and infrastructure. Somebody needs to pay for that, and I’d like to see the employers shoulder more of the burden that taxpayers and legal/citizen employees are bearing.

[spdrun]

[quote=CA renter]I’ve had Mexican-American friends tell me that the Mexicans were going to “take back” their territory in a bloodless war, simply by out-populating the white Americans. [/quote]

Think about what you’re saying.

Real question is, so what if they do and the US west ends up majority Mexican/Latino? How does that affect you? I don’t think that anyone is seriously proposing that Upper California should rejoin Mexico — most immigrants come here to escape bad political conditions down there.

Also, intermarriage tends to be more common among children of Latino immigrants, so we might end up with a “Californian” identity rather than a “Mexican” one in 100 years.

In short, who cares, unless you have some outdated notions of ethnic purity?

And this is an AWESOME trend. One out of five Californians now marries outside their race…
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/interracial-marriages-u-s-hit-all-time-high-4-8-million-article-1.1023643

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun][quote=CA renter]I’ve had Mexican-American friends tell me that the Mexicans were going to “take back” their territory in a bloodless war, simply by out-populating the white Americans. [/quote]

Think about what you’re saying.

Real question is, so what if they do and the US west ends up majority Mexican/Latino? How does that affect you? I don’t think that anyone is seriously proposing that Upper California should rejoin Mexico — most immigrants come here to escape bad political conditions down there.

Also, intermarriage tends to be more common among children of Latino immigrants, so we might end up with a “Californian” identity rather than a “Mexican” one in 100 years.

In short, who cares, unless you have some outdated notions of ethnic purity?

And this is an AWESOME trend. One out of five Californians now marries outside their race…
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/interracial-marriages-u-s-hit-all-time-high-4-8-million-article-1.1023643%5B/quote%5D

Yes, they are seriously proposing taking over the parts of the U.S. that were once Mexican territory. I agree that it would seem a bit insane, since that’s what they are supposedly trying to escape, but they don’t seem to be overly concerned with those types of details.

And I’ve personally seen the interracial marriage rates climbing as most of our kids friends are mixtures of two or more races. This wasn’t the case when I was growing up. I have no problem with that at all, but I DO have a problem with a political “takeover” of our country. If most of us wanted to live in Mexico, we’d already be there. Most of us don’t want to live in Mexico.

[spdrun]

Nah, if most Mexican immigrants wanted to live in Mexico, they’d have stayed there. I really doubt this is a serious trend.

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]Nah, if most Mexican immigrants wanted to live in Mexico, they’d have stayed there. I really doubt this is a serious trend.[/quote]

I’ve lived here (Southern California) all my life and have heard this from many different sources. I wish you were right.

[spdrun]

And again, who cares? Even if California ends up being majority Latino and/or Mexican, how will this affect you? The political system won’t change that much since it’s governed by the Federal and state constitution, both of which are hard to change.

Maybe you’ll end up with the good aspects of the culture south of the border — without the rampant crime and corruption.

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]And again, who cares? Even if California ends up being majority Latino and/or Mexican, how will this affect you?[/quote]

A political takeover will affect everyone living in this area.

Again, immigration that is controlled for quality and quantity is a good thing. Unchecked immigration is not. The host country cannot bear the huge burden that comes with millions of poverty-stricken immigrants from poor countries. Why do you think the Europeans are in such an uproar?

And, yes, culture is important, too. People need to assimilate when they move to another country. I would expect the same of myself and my family if we were to move to another country.

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]And again, who cares? Even if California ends up being majority Latino and/or Mexican, how will this affect you? The political system won’t change that much since it’s governed by the Federal and state constitution, both of which are hard to change.

Maybe you’ll end up with the good aspects of the culture south of the border — without the rampant crime and corruption.[/quote]

Not difficult to change if another culture becomes the majority. Not difficult at all.

And we already have good influences from Latin America. How would you propose to eliminate the rampant crime and corruption, though? Already, in many immigrant neighborhoods, particularly in poor Latin American neighborhoods, the crime rate and dropout rate from school is extremely high. How do you propose we fix that?

[spdrun]

Assimilation works in both directions. America is a fundamentally cold, distant, touch-phobic culture. Comes down from the Puritans and other Protestant fanatics. The Mexicans that I’ve met have been much more social, friendlier, and more spontaneous than Americans. Maybe a mixture of Mexican and American culture will be a positive influence on both sides.

New York City wouldn’t be what it is without immigrants from various Latinate countries, both in the Americas and in Europe. There were also many of the same fears in the 1890s. About Italians, Irish, Eastern Europeans, Jews, what have you. All gangsters, thieves, Communists, or out to take us over. OMG!

As far as the dropout rate, this is true for poor white areas as well. Was also true for Irish, Italian, etc immigrants in the early 1900s. Things will adjust as time goes on and generations pass.

California won’t ever be majority Mexican-born. The majority will likely be composed of second and third generation Americans, with some aspects of both cultures.

Again. Who cares? I in fact welcome it. And Asians, and any other immigrants who want to come to CA, work hard, and build a life. It will make it a more interesting place.

[CA renter]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=CA renter]
One thing that liberals/progressives get horribly wrong is thinking that you can have open borders (without any controls) and a generous social safety net. The two are not compatible.[/quote]

I read a lot of liberal/progressive publications. I almost never see open borders supported. It’s not totally absent, but it is not a standard part of any liberal/progressive agenda. It rarely gets mentioned as a serious policy item.[/quote]

SK, check out the link that I posted with the interview. The topic of open borders might not be on the lips of many American progressive politicians, but that’s because they know that even the most liberal/progressive voters usually don’t want open borders. If a politician were to propose it, they would be out the door in an instant.

But it IS on the lips of those advocating for illegal immigrants in the U.S. This has long been a key component of their agenda. As they become more politically powerful here, you will begin to hear about it more. They already have the Democrats, and they are making serious inroads with the Republicans. It’s only a matter of time before it is openly on the agenda.

[CA renter]

Quote [bold is mine -CAR]:

“Historical Foundation

The Chicano Movement of the late 1960’s helped spark cultural and historical pride in our people. Chicanas/Chicanos demanded to be treated as equals and denounced acculturation and assimilation. Brown pride began to express itself through poetry, literature, art and theater. The contributions of the Chicano Movement are numerous and continue to be very valuable to our society.

Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán (MEChA) is a student organization that promotes higher education, cultura, and historia. MEChA was founded on the principles of self-determination for the liberation of our people. We believe that political involvement and education is the avenue for change in our society.

In March of 1969, at Denver, Colorado the Crusade for Justice organized the National Chicano Youth Conference that drafted the basic premises for the Chicana/Chicano Movement in El Plan de Aztlán (EPA). A synopsis of El Plan stipulates: 1) We are Chicanas and Chicanos of Aztlán reclaiming the land of our birth (Chicana/Chicano Nation); 2) Aztlán belongs to indigenous people, who are sovereign and not subject to a foreign culture; 3) We are a union of free pueblos forming a bronze (Chicana/Chicano) Nation; 4) Chicano nationalism, as the key to mobilization and organization, is the common denominator to bring consensus to the Chicana/Chicano Movement; 5) Cultural values strengthen our identity as La Familia de La Raza; and 6) EPA, as a basic plan of Chicana/Chicano liberation, sought the formation of an independent national political party that would represent the sentiments of the Chicana/Chicano community.“

————

For those who aren’t familiar with the concept of Atzlan, read this and check out the map:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztl%C3%A1n

[spdrun]

Question is, if we had truly open borders worldwide, would that be such a bad thing? Everyone would have the choice of what sort of government they’d want to live under. It would make tyranny and bad government a lot harder to enforce.

Open borders and globalism should be long-term ideals, since no one should be stuck because they had the misfortune to be born in one region of the world or another.

[spdrun]

OK, but do the majority of immigrants from Mexico/Latin America actually believe in this stuff?

There’s plenty of crazy and crypto-fascism to go around — ever hear of white separatism?

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]OK, but do the majority of immigrants from Mexico/Latin America actually believe in this stuff?

There’s plenty of crazy to go around — ever hear of white separatism?[/quote]

Yes, the Chicanos and Latin American immigrants that I’ve known throughout my life are familiar with this. MECha is on many (most?) college campuses in California. This is completely mainstream knowledge in Latin American communities, especially communities where there is a lot of activism WRT illegal immigration. It is part and parcel of that movement.

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]Question is, if we had truly open borders worldwide, would that be such a bad thing? Everyone would have the choice of what sort of government they’d want to live under. It would make tyranny and bad government a lot harder to enforce.

Open borders and globalism should be long-term ideals, since no one should be stuck because they had the misfortune to be born in one region of the world or another.[/quote]

You are a bit misguided, IMHO, about everyone having a choice of what government they would want to live under if we had open borders. To the contrary, the globalization movement’s goal is to eliminate the differences between countries — cultural, governmental, economic, etc. That is **precisely** who so many of us oppose open borders. We prefer to have different cultures, governments, economies, etc. so that people can choose something other than what they currently have. Migration has always been a part of human history, and I would never want it to be otherwise, but eliminating borders and consolidating governments, currencies, trade rules, economies, religious preferences, ethnicities, (even races) etc. is not a positive thing, IMO.

We need to encourage the differences between cultures and countries and let people live where they feel like they would most fit in. Trying to force everyone into the same mold has never worked.

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