401k advice

[DCRogers]

cooperthedog,

Thanks for all the work it took to “do the math”. It’s nice to see arguments backed up with data on this thread… it’s contained lots of conflicting information and opinions, and given the importance of this issue for people’s eventual security, I am glad to have your serious, and lengthy, study!

[DCRogers]

cooperthedog,

Thanks for all the work it took to “do the math”. It’s nice to see arguments backed up with data on this thread… it’s contained lots of conflicting information and opinions, and given the importance of this issue for people’s eventual security, I am glad to have your serious, and lengthy, study!

[luchabee]

Amen to cooperthedog!!!

The only thing I could add to this excellent, excellent advice is that if you have excess income and can fully fund a 401(k) and IRA and are still looking for places to invest, make sure, of course, to have your ordinary income assets, etc. in the tax deferred accounts and you capital gains assets in your taxable accounts. In sum, your entire portfolio allocation should eventually take into account the pre-tax and post-tax characteristics of each account. Do not diversify each account, but diversify your entire portfolio, making sure you are not trading in non-deferred accounts and receiving ordinary income, etc. in taxable accounts. Common sense to some, but not to all.

After this, this is the only time people should start looking into the tax deferred aspects of annuities and insurance vehicles (except for term).

Another poster is correct too about the ultimate distribution issues with RMDs. Make sure that you consult an experienced advisor in how to carefully manage these distributions from a tax perspective when you start thinking about retirement.

This is where a good tax advisor is really worth it!!!

Some people start taking out hugh lump sumps to meet the RMDs (triggering tremendous taxes in those years) when they should have been taking out distributions in these deferred accounts a few years before to cut down the tax impact of these forced distributions while leaving their taxable accounts in place. This is inverted from most people’s desire to always defer. In other words, you should visit with a CFP, CPA, or tax attorney when you start thinking about retirement.

[luchabee]

Amen to cooperthedog!!!

The only thing I could add to this excellent, excellent advice is that if you have excess income and can fully fund a 401(k) and IRA and are still looking for places to invest, make sure, of course, to have your ordinary income assets, etc. in the tax deferred accounts and you capital gains assets in your taxable accounts. In sum, your entire portfolio allocation should eventually take into account the pre-tax and post-tax characteristics of each account. Do not diversify each account, but diversify your entire portfolio, making sure you are not trading in non-deferred accounts and receiving ordinary income, etc. in taxable accounts. Common sense to some, but not to all.

After this, this is the only time people should start looking into the tax deferred aspects of annuities and insurance vehicles (except for term).

Another poster is correct too about the ultimate distribution issues with RMDs. Make sure that you consult an experienced advisor in how to carefully manage these distributions from a tax perspective when you start thinking about retirement.

This is where a good tax advisor is really worth it!!!

Some people start taking out hugh lump sumps to meet the RMDs (triggering tremendous taxes in those years) when they should have been taking out distributions in these deferred accounts a few years before to cut down the tax impact of these forced distributions while leaving their taxable accounts in place. This is inverted from most people’s desire to always defer. In other words, you should visit with a CFP, CPA, or tax attorney when you start thinking about retirement.

[luchabee]

Amen to cooperthedog!!!

The only thing I could add to this excellent, excellent advice is that if you have excess income and can fully fund a 401(k) and IRA and are still looking for places to invest, make sure, of course, to have your ordinary income assets, etc. in the tax deferred accounts and you capital gains assets in your taxable accounts. In sum, your entire portfolio allocation should eventually take into account the pre-tax and post-tax characteristics of each account. Do not diversify each account, but diversify your entire portfolio, making sure you are not trading in non-deferred accounts and receiving ordinary income, etc. in taxable accounts. Common sense to some, but not to all.

After this, this is the only time people should start looking into the tax deferred aspects of annuities and insurance vehicles (except for term).

Another poster is correct too about the ultimate distribution issues with RMDs. Make sure that you consult an experienced advisor in how to carefully manage these distributions from a tax perspective when you start thinking about retirement.

This is where a good tax advisor is really worth it!!!

Some people start taking out hugh lump sumps to meet the RMDs (triggering tremendous taxes in those years) when they should have been taking out distributions in these deferred accounts a few years before to cut down the tax impact of these forced distributions while leaving their taxable accounts in place. This is inverted from most people’s desire to always defer. In other words, you should visit with a CFP, CPA, or tax attorney when you start thinking about retirement.

[luchabee]

Amen to cooperthedog!!!

The only thing I could add to this excellent, excellent advice is that if you have excess income and can fully fund a 401(k) and IRA and are still looking for places to invest, make sure, of course, to have your ordinary income assets, etc. in the tax deferred accounts and you capital gains assets in your taxable accounts. In sum, your entire portfolio allocation should eventually take into account the pre-tax and post-tax characteristics of each account. Do not diversify each account, but diversify your entire portfolio, making sure you are not trading in non-deferred accounts and receiving ordinary income, etc. in taxable accounts. Common sense to some, but not to all.

After this, this is the only time people should start looking into the tax deferred aspects of annuities and insurance vehicles (except for term).

Another poster is correct too about the ultimate distribution issues with RMDs. Make sure that you consult an experienced advisor in how to carefully manage these distributions from a tax perspective when you start thinking about retirement.

This is where a good tax advisor is really worth it!!!

Some people start taking out hugh lump sumps to meet the RMDs (triggering tremendous taxes in those years) when they should have been taking out distributions in these deferred accounts a few years before to cut down the tax impact of these forced distributions while leaving their taxable accounts in place. This is inverted from most people’s desire to always defer. In other words, you should visit with a CFP, CPA, or tax attorney when you start thinking about retirement.

[luchabee]

Amen to cooperthedog!!!

The only thing I could add to this excellent, excellent advice is that if you have excess income and can fully fund a 401(k) and IRA and are still looking for places to invest, make sure, of course, to have your ordinary income assets, etc. in the tax deferred accounts and you capital gains assets in your taxable accounts. In sum, your entire portfolio allocation should eventually take into account the pre-tax and post-tax characteristics of each account. Do not diversify each account, but diversify your entire portfolio, making sure you are not trading in non-deferred accounts and receiving ordinary income, etc. in taxable accounts. Common sense to some, but not to all.

After this, this is the only time people should start looking into the tax deferred aspects of annuities and insurance vehicles (except for term).

Another poster is correct too about the ultimate distribution issues with RMDs. Make sure that you consult an experienced advisor in how to carefully manage these distributions from a tax perspective when you start thinking about retirement.

This is where a good tax advisor is really worth it!!!

Some people start taking out hugh lump sumps to meet the RMDs (triggering tremendous taxes in those years) when they should have been taking out distributions in these deferred accounts a few years before to cut down the tax impact of these forced distributions while leaving their taxable accounts in place. This is inverted from most people’s desire to always defer. In other words, you should visit with a CFP, CPA, or tax attorney when you start thinking about retirement.

[Coronita]

cooperthedog,

 

Thanks for the analysis! There is no apology for length when people bring data. I just wonder why more companies don't use simple index funds. I think what bit was all the hidden management fees.

[Coronita]

cooperthedog,

 

Thanks for the analysis! There is no apology for length when people bring data. I just wonder why more companies don't use simple index funds. I think what bit was all the hidden management fees.

[Coronita]

cooperthedog,

 

Thanks for the analysis! There is no apology for length when people bring data. I just wonder why more companies don't use simple index funds. I think what bit was all the hidden management fees.

[Coronita]

cooperthedog,

 

Thanks for the analysis! There is no apology for length when people bring data. I just wonder why more companies don't use simple index funds. I think what bit was all the hidden management fees.

[Coronita]

cooperthedog,

 

Thanks for the analysis! There is no apology for length when people bring data. I just wonder why more companies don't use simple index funds. I think what bit was all the hidden management fees.

[Coronita]

like flu and others that have amassed sizable retirement portfolios… if they had invested that money in real estate during the late 90's instead of their 401, how would things be different for them today?

Drunkle,

 

Some of us have :). But you forget also that the ability to "invest" in real estate back in the 90ies wasn't what we have seen these days, at least to my recollection. If my memory serves me, the entire easy qualifying thing was a product of recent times. I doubt (could be wrong) someone working for 2-3 years would have the capability those days to buy two homes, as some of us were already stretching with one. Also if you could, it probably would require considerable risk, which frankly is beyond what I could have tolerated. I guess also 401k was something simple to do…hence part of my laziness shows. I just wish I picked better funds. 7% returns kinda stinks in my books.

 

You also forget that Real-estate in for the longest time went no-where. What you are seeing in price appreciation is no different from the dot-com boom and bust. Your argument was the same argument that many people just jumping into the stock market during the dot-com boom was saying about the stock market on the way up. If only I had put all my money in the stock market instead of investing in RE in the late 80ies and 90ies, I would have done considerably better. Things are always clear in hindsight.

 

But, the thing that was good about all my companies that i worked at, no one offered an option to invest in your own company's stock, or worse buy stocks on the free exchange. I think that is a recipe for disaster, as I'm sure Enron and Countrywide employees are finding out.

For the record, I plan on buying investment property when it makes sense. For that I'm sitting on the sideline right now. I own a primary that's most likely going to depreciate moving forward. But for me and my wife, we figure we can afford this, we still are doing ok toward financial independence, and you only live once, so neither of us are really losing sleep if the primary home drops $100k-$200k+. Doesn't make financial sense, but as so many people have pointed out, a lot of decisions don't make any financial sense. And if things fall beyond that in my neck of woods, we would probably buy another place at that point to dollar-cost-average 🙂

 

 

 

[Coronita]

like flu and others that have amassed sizable retirement portfolios… if they had invested that money in real estate during the late 90's instead of their 401, how would things be different for them today?

Drunkle,

 

Some of us have :). But you forget also that the ability to "invest" in real estate back in the 90ies wasn't what we have seen these days, at least to my recollection. If my memory serves me, the entire easy qualifying thing was a product of recent times. I doubt (could be wrong) someone working for 2-3 years would have the capability those days to buy two homes, as some of us were already stretching with one. Also if you could, it probably would require considerable risk, which frankly is beyond what I could have tolerated. I guess also 401k was something simple to do…hence part of my laziness shows. I just wish I picked better funds. 7% returns kinda stinks in my books.

 

You also forget that Real-estate in for the longest time went no-where. What you are seeing in price appreciation is no different from the dot-com boom and bust. Your argument was the same argument that many people just jumping into the stock market during the dot-com boom was saying about the stock market on the way up. If only I had put all my money in the stock market instead of investing in RE in the late 80ies and 90ies, I would have done considerably better. Things are always clear in hindsight.

 

But, the thing that was good about all my companies that i worked at, no one offered an option to invest in your own company's stock, or worse buy stocks on the free exchange. I think that is a recipe for disaster, as I'm sure Enron and Countrywide employees are finding out.

For the record, I plan on buying investment property when it makes sense. For that I'm sitting on the sideline right now. I own a primary that's most likely going to depreciate moving forward. But for me and my wife, we figure we can afford this, we still are doing ok toward financial independence, and you only live once, so neither of us are really losing sleep if the primary home drops $100k-$200k+. Doesn't make financial sense, but as so many people have pointed out, a lot of decisions don't make any financial sense. And if things fall beyond that in my neck of woods, we would probably buy another place at that point to dollar-cost-average 🙂

 

 

 

[Coronita]

like flu and others that have amassed sizable retirement portfolios… if they had invested that money in real estate during the late 90's instead of their 401, how would things be different for them today?

Drunkle,

 

Some of us have :). But you forget also that the ability to "invest" in real estate back in the 90ies wasn't what we have seen these days, at least to my recollection. If my memory serves me, the entire easy qualifying thing was a product of recent times. I doubt (could be wrong) someone working for 2-3 years would have the capability those days to buy two homes, as some of us were already stretching with one. Also if you could, it probably would require considerable risk, which frankly is beyond what I could have tolerated. I guess also 401k was something simple to do…hence part of my laziness shows. I just wish I picked better funds. 7% returns kinda stinks in my books.

 

You also forget that Real-estate in for the longest time went no-where. What you are seeing in price appreciation is no different from the dot-com boom and bust. Your argument was the same argument that many people just jumping into the stock market during the dot-com boom was saying about the stock market on the way up. If only I had put all my money in the stock market instead of investing in RE in the late 80ies and 90ies, I would have done considerably better. Things are always clear in hindsight.

 

But, the thing that was good about all my companies that i worked at, no one offered an option to invest in your own company's stock, or worse buy stocks on the free exchange. I think that is a recipe for disaster, as I'm sure Enron and Countrywide employees are finding out.

For the record, I plan on buying investment property when it makes sense. For that I'm sitting on the sideline right now. I own a primary that's most likely going to depreciate moving forward. But for me and my wife, we figure we can afford this, we still are doing ok toward financial independence, and you only live once, so neither of us are really losing sleep if the primary home drops $100k-$200k+. Doesn't make financial sense, but as so many people have pointed out, a lot of decisions don't make any financial sense. And if things fall beyond that in my neck of woods, we would probably buy another place at that point to dollar-cost-average 🙂

 

 

 

[Author]

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