2012 Edition: What’s your raise this year?

[CA renter]

If you’re right, then where are these “free market” countries with all the innovation and creativity? Are they in no/low-tax countries with no/few social safety nets, or are they in places where there is a stable government, rule of law, and safety nets for those who are less fortunate — along with the relatively high taxes required by those systems?

If you have to focus on basic survival (which is what you see in countries with weak/no governments, weak law enforcement, and unpaid or low-paid public employees), you will not likely be coming up with new, innovative inventions. Let’s not forget all the basic research that enables this “innovation” to take place — with most of that being funded by good ol’ taxpayers, not private industry.

Where you and I disagree is that you seem to think that “socialism” and “capitalism” are two disparate systems; I think the two are absolutely essential for the other to exist successfully — it is a symbiotic relationship.

BTW, where in the world did you get the idea that I was opposed to entrepreneurial enterprise or education? I come from a long line of educators and college graduates, and have always emphasized learning for the sake of learning (one of the many reasons we homeschool, BTW).

There is a HUGE difference between entrepreneurial enterprise where someone creates or improves upon a good/service vs. leveraged speculation. A HUGE difference. I favor the former and oppose the latter because it drains money from the economy while not providing any material benefits to society.

Going to Vegas and throwing $100K on red is “taking risks,” but I fail to see how that should entitle someone to any kind of reward. You and I define “risk” differently, and we differ on what we feel is beneficial vs. detrimental to society as far as those “risks” are concerned.

I also have to comment on your persistence that “rich” people take risks, as if they do so with their own money. The most successful speculators rarely use their own money; they usually borrow it or obtain it from suckers in some kind of “investment” scheme.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]
I beleive in the risk taking and innovation that is the core of the American Spirit. These are the things that make this the best country in the world. You beleive that everyone should put their head down and work hard as part of a large machine. That work ethic while admirable can be found anywhere in the world. No where else in the world do you find the innovation, creativity and spirit that exists in our country.

I am not a right winged rah rah USA patriot. If anything I am left of center, live and let live liberal. But I am a beleiver in the American Spirit that recognizes the value of someone willing to put their ass on the line and take the risks that create a better world. That can be through pursuing higher education or pursuing an entrepreneurial enterprise. Just being being another cog in the machine is not what got us here nor is it what will keep us here.[/quote]

Just for fun, let’s look at some of the most influential scientists, shall we? Are they all American? Did they come from “capitalist” countries? [FWIW, I did not try to “cherry pick” anything here. Just Googled “top scientists” and did some searches regarding scientific discoveries, without even including country names or political labels of any sort.]

http://listverse.com/2009/02/24/top-10-most-influential-scientists/

http://history1900s.about.com/od/people/tp/10scientists.htm

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/284158.html

http://www.unesco.org/bpi/science/content/press/anglo/6.htm

[CA renter]

Is there a correlation between the relative stability, size, and power of a country’s government and the innovations they create? BTW, the US is NOT a low/no tax country, and saw some of the highest tax rates during its most innovative period…and huge amounts of taxpayer money being directed to scientific R&D at the same time, as well.

http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php

http://sciencewatch.com/dr/cou/2008/08mar20PHY/

http://www.sras.org/science_in_russia_and_the_soviet_union

[UCGal]

[quote=CA renter]sdr,

< cut out the stuff putting the over-discussed public/private thing... >

Did you get a raise this year, and if so, how much?[/quote]
sdr – you mentioned previously that you couldn’t say till 12/31/12.
But you can say if your figures for 2011 year were bigger than 2010.
And you can say if your healthcare costs, etc increased in price, or went down in price.

For those of us on salary – our raises are largely based on how the company did, and our personal performance reviews covering the previous year.

So my raise and bonus that will happen in April was based on my performance reviews covering 2011. The paperwork has been done. HR and payroll have the numbers. It’s been decided. I just haven’t been informed of it yet because they wait till the last minute to inform the employees. We often find out the day it shows in our paycheck.

[sdrealtor]

I dont do my taxes for a while so I dont know exactly what expenses were but I do know what my revenues were. 2011 was 5% higher than 2010 but 2.5% lower than 2009. My business expenses are likely pretty comparable across all those years. Healthcare was up last year. Bought a car last year so depreciation will pull down taxable income too. All things considered my income has been remarkably consistent the last several years for someone on straight commission.

BTW that bonus you get in April is 2012 earnings even though it was for performance last year. For those of us on commission the lag in pay for performance could be even longer than yours. I end up getting paid 6 to 12 months after starting with most clients. With short sales it can be even longer.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA Renter]If you’re right, then where are these “free market” countries with all the innovation and creativity?[/quote]

Let’s just pause for a moment and consider the magnitude of the ignorance in the words above.

Another thread highjacked by pseudo-religious delusional Marxist nonsense.

The Piggington forum spirals down the toilet bowl…

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdrealtor]
I beleive in the risk taking and innovation that is the core of the American Spirit. These are the things that make this the best country in the world. You beleive that everyone should put their head down and work hard as part of a large machine. That work ethic while admirable can be found anywhere in the world. No where else in the world do you find the innovation, creativity and spirit that exists in our country.

I am not a right winged rah rah USA patriot. If anything I am left of center, live and let live liberal. But I am a beleiver in the American Spirit that recognizes the value of someone willing to put their ass on the line and take the risks that create a better world. That can be through pursuing higher education or pursuing an entrepreneurial enterprise. Just being being another cog in the machine is not what got us here nor is it what will keep us here.[/quote]

Just for fun, let’s look at some of the most influential scientists, shall we? Are they all American? Did they come from “capitalist” countries? [FWIW, I did not try to “cherry pick” anything here. Just Googled “top scientists” and did some searches regarding scientific discoveries, without even including country names or political labels of any sort.]

http://listverse.com/2009/02/24/top-10-most-influential-scientists/

http://history1900s.about.com/od/people/tp/10scientists.htm

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/284158.html

http://www.unesco.org/bpi/science/content/press/anglo/6.htm%5B/quote%5D

Are you serious? You pull in Da Vinci, Bohr, Curie, Galileo and Sir Isaac Newton. Some of those people pre-date the US. There you go again murdering your case.

[Myriad]

Wow… this thread went off topic pretty fast!

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=CA renter][quote=sdrealtor]
I beleive in the risk taking and innovation that is the core of the American Spirit. These are the things that make this the best country in the world. You beleive that everyone should put their head down and work hard as part of a large machine. That work ethic while admirable can be found anywhere in the world. No where else in the world do you find the innovation, creativity and spirit that exists in our country.

I am not a right winged rah rah USA patriot. If anything I am left of center, live and let live liberal. But I am a beleiver in the American Spirit that recognizes the value of someone willing to put their ass on the line and take the risks that create a better world. That can be through pursuing higher education or pursuing an entrepreneurial enterprise. Just being being another cog in the machine is not what got us here nor is it what will keep us here.[/quote]

Just for fun, let’s look at some of the most influential scientists, shall we? Are they all American? Did they come from “capitalist” countries? [FWIW, I did not try to “cherry pick” anything here. Just Googled “top scientists” and did some searches regarding scientific discoveries, without even including country names or political labels of any sort.]

http://listverse.com/2009/02/24/top-10-most-influential-scientists/

http://history1900s.about.com/od/people/tp/10scientists.htm

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/284158.html

http://www.unesco.org/bpi/science/content/press/anglo/6.htm%5B/quote%5D

Are you serious? You pull in Da Vinci, Bohr, Curie, Galileo and Sir Isaac Newton. Some of those people pre-date the US. There you go again murdering your case.[/quote]

The vast majority of the scientists in those links DO NOT pre-date the U.S., most are from the past century. So, did they come from “capitalist” countries, or not? Just look at the ones from the past 100-200 years and ignore the rest. Are they all Americans? Do they all come from capitalist countries? Stay on topic.

Can YOU show us a list of top scientists and/or innovations that proves your assertion that innovation is strictly tied to a capitalist economy — especially one where the government/taxpayers don’t pay for any research? I’d love to see your list.

[CA renter]

I apologize to the other Piggs for this tired threadjack. I responded to the topic of the thread, but got baited into another private/public sector debate when someone made another false claim about public employees. Needless to say, this “myth as fact” propaganda on the internet is a pet peeve of mine.

I will not respond to any further off-topic comments here.

—————-

sdr and pri,

If you want to continue, we can do it via PM.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA Renter]If you’re right, then where are these “free market” countries with all the innovation and creativity?[/quote]

Let’s just pause for a moment and consider the magnitude of the ignorance in the words above.

Another thread highjacked by pseudo-religious delusional Marxist nonsense.

The Piggington forum spirals down the toilet bowl…[/quote]

Once again, can you add anything insightful for a change? Why do you always insist on dragging the converstaion into the ditch with you via your stupid, immature, ignorant comments?

If you disagree with something a poster says, state your case clearly (what, specifically, do you disagree with, and why do you disagree?), address the topic, and BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENT WITH FACTS, LOGIC, AND CITATIONS (yes, this means you will actually have to know what you’re talking about and you will have to know how to READ AND COMPREHEND written works — yes, even “long” ones). Stop regurgitating the dogma that other people have told you to believe, do your own research, and think for yourself. So far, you’ve never done that. If you can’t debate intelligently, there’s no need for you to add your asinine personal attacks.

One more thing…the reason I include entire posts is so that things are not taken out of context. When quoting me, please include the entire quote. On many occasions, you’ve tried to twist what I was saying by selectively “editing” my post. Not cool.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter]I apologize to the other Piggs for this tired threadjack. I responded to the topic of the thread, but got baited into another private/public sector debate when someone made another false claim about public employees. Needless to say, this “myth as fact” propaganda on the internet is a pet peeve of mine.

I will not respond to any further off-topic comments here.

—————-

sdr and pri,

If you want to continue, we can do it via PM.[/quote]

CAR, don’t bother apologizing. Most anything goes.. Although, in a few hours this thread is going to be part of The Weekly Piggington Report, Issue #2 🙂

[sdrealtor]

The telephone, personal computer, Microsoft, Apple and for TG the lap dance

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]Can YOU show us a list of top scientists and/or innovations that proves your assertion that innovation is strictly tied to a capitalist economy […][/quote]

Wow.

You are still trying to argue that there is no link between capitalism and innovation…using words typed into a computer and posted on the internet?

How could anyone?…I don’t even…

(BTW: Don’t send me any more PMs.)

[CA renter]

What PMs have I sent, pri? Hallucinating again?

FYI, the history of the internet (sorry guys, he keeps baiting!):

“The history of the Internet began with the development of computers in the 1950s. This began with point-to-point communication between mainframe computers and terminals, expanded to point-to-point connections between computers and then early research into packet switching. Packet switched networks such as ARPANET, Mark I at NPL in the UK, CYCLADES, Merit Network, Tymnet, and Telenet, were developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s using a variety of protocols. The ARPANET in particular led to the development of protocols for internetworking, where multiple separate networks could be joined together into a network of networks.

In 1982 the Internet Protocol Suite (TCP/IP) was standardized and the concept of a world-wide network of fully interconnected TCP/IP networks called the Internet was introduced. Access to the ARPANET was expanded in 1981 when the National Science Foundation (NSF) developed the Computer Science Network (CSNET) and again in 1986 when NSFNET provided access to supercomputer sites in the United States from research and education organizations. Commercial internet service providers (ISPs) began to emerge in the late 1980s and 1990s. The ARPANET was decommissioned in 1990. The Internet was commercialized in 1995 when NSFNET was decommissioned, removing the last restrictions on the use of the Internet to carry commercial traffic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

“The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET), was the world’s first operational packet switching network and the core network of a set that came to compose the global Internet. The network was funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) of the United States Department of Defense for use by its projects at universities and research laboratories in the US. The packet switching of the ARPANET was based on designs by Lawrence Roberts of the Lincoln Laboratory.[1]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
———————–

This is what I’m talking about, Pri. You keep talking out your ass, and don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

[Author]

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