You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.
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[quote=urbanrealtor]Again, fraud has a specific meaning and without a lie or a damaged party, there is, by definition, no fraud.[/quote]
The “damaged party” is the lender, and the govt/taxpayer, as the case may be these days. If they are losing money because of a pre-arranged deal, then they are most certainly being damaged by the collusion, and it is fraud. The lie consists of claiming that the presented offer is an “arms-length” transaction and/or that it is the “highest and best” (or only) offer. Again, if there is a better offer that is intentionally not being presented to the lender –so that one buyer may be favored over another — then it is fraud. If you doubt what I’m saying, do some research yourself regarding short sale fraud. See what the regulators have to say about it.
[quote=CA renter]
Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.
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[quote=urbanrealtor]Making an offer to a seller is, by definition, an open market transaction.
The buyer defines the market as much as the seller.
Putting it on the MLS does not make it more open market.
There is no defrauding going on here.[/quote]
Let’s see what the definition of “open market” is, shall we?…
“open market
DefinitionA market which is widely accessible to all investors or consumers.”
open market
n
(Business / Commerce)
a. a market in which prices are determined by supply and demand, there are no barriers to entry, and trading is not restricted [by a realtor who’s conspiring with a particular buyer, for instance – CAR] to a specific area.
“Market value is the price at which an asset would trade in a competitive auction setting [a competitive auction would presumably be one where there are **competing** buyers, rather than a pre-arranged buyer – CAR]. Market value is often used interchangeably with open market value, fair value or fair market value, although these terms have distinct definitions in different standards, and may differ in some circumstances.
International Valuation Standards defines market value as “the estimated amount for which a property should exchange on the date of valuation between a willing buyer and a willing seller in an arm’s-length transaction after proper marketing wherein the parties had each acted knowledgeably, prudently, and without compulsion.”[1]
In a general sense used in economics and political economy, an open market refers to a market which is accessible to all economic actors. In an open market so defined, all economic actors have an equal opportunity of entry in that market.
Now, I’m always open to hearing different opinions on this, but this “woefully ignorant and uninformed conspiracy nut” just can’t seem to find the definition you seem to be referring to, where an “open market transaction” referrs to a pre-arranged buyer’s offer being the ONLY one submitted to the lender (even when there are higher/better offers) and where other offers/buyers are blocked.
